Bad luck with water leak ....

[Belgiumbarry]

i had all pulleys/tensioners removed on my 850i from 91 for SC install modification , so it was "the" moment for pulling the water pump as i have a small leak from there. I removed today the water pump to see now that the 2 metal tubes are severely corroded at the ends , and one is leaking in his O ring gasket of the pump housing. So i will have to remove the intake manifolds to be able to renew those tubes.... Amazed that the leak was still small when i see how bad those tube ends are.... far beyond possible to clean them.
The water pump itself seems recently renewed bij PO.... so one lucky item , but installed on very bad pipes !

Can that be galvanic corrosion between the aluminium block and those steel pipes ? anybody have seen this ?
I have those tubes inspected from a broken engine i bought , they have just some superficial corrosion , nothing compared to mine... Perhaps those are renewed once , and mine are original …. but i will buy new ones to be safe....

PS When i'm in there , i will of course inspect the banjo's and camshafts , something i had planned to do this winter. So, it will be sooner

[Belgiumbarry]

removed today the inlet manifolds.... with the scary nut at the back.... that took time .... wonder if anybody changed the routing of the metal fuel return line that makes it so difficult to reach some nuts and also demands that the drivers side manifold has to come off first , while the passenger side is more easy to unbolt , but you cannot remove that manifold , the fuel return pipe makes it impossible…..

happy to be that far …. tomorrow a look inside the valve covers....
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[cartoonz]

"while you're in there", you might consider replacing the valve cover gaskets, at least.
Since you are going to be adding boost to this engine, you'll want to be sure the vc gaskets do not leak... higher crankcase pressure tends to make things bleed...

[Belgiumbarry]

thanks for the hint cartoonz , as i was planned to do....
biggest oil leak with the SC extra crankcase pressure is at the sump , in the rear corner with the big (useless ?) hole …..
For that i already installed a Moroso vacuum pump.... to keep the engine dry. Could not really test it due the problems now….

[TxGR8White]

Valve stem seals should also be on the list, as well as cam timing.

[Belgiumbarry]

I will check cam timing , but wait with valve stem seals…. engine is not burning oil (so far). I want to go asap further testing with the SC for "good" results….
If i change the routing of the fuel return lines , it's no big deal anymore to be that far into the heads. Without the "difficult" bolt(s) it is easy done in 4 hours. ( with a coffee pauze ) I must check it , but think without the return pipes ( and lifting eyes) in the valley , all nuts can be reached with just 1/4" extensions and a "machined" socket .No need for magic with swivels etc... Will soon see it when i reassemble.

I see liquid gasket stuff around the manifolds, so i'm not the first to be in there . ( car has 140k kilometers)

[Belgiumbarry]

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valve covers removed and lucky , cam lobes are fine and no loose banjo's ! Tomorrow i will borrow the special tool for cam timing check.

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i suspect galvanic corrosion ( electrolyse) …. that pipe sits in 2 O rings ( and the small one ) , so does not have a direct electric contact ( no ground) with the engine. Can also be wrong cooling liquid ever used by PO.... ( aggressive ? )

[JDP530]

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valve covers removed and lucky , cam lobes are fine and no loose banjo's ! Tomorrow i will borrow the special tool for cam timing check.

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i suspect galvanic corrosion ( electrolyse) …. that pipe sits in 2 O rings ( and the small one ) , so does not have a direct electric contact ( no ground) with the engine. Can also be wrong cooling liquid ever used by PO.... ( aggressive ? )

You might consider removing the banjo bolts and securing them before putting engine back together. You can get some of the special lock washers that have a tap that is bent again bolt, use some Loctite, or cross-drill and safety wire them which is what I did along with a drop of loctite.

[Belgiumbarry]

thanks JDP530 for the info.... i don't know yet what i should do. Those lock washers work on studs with a flat side , so they cannot turn , and with the tap bended against the nut head also hold the nut from turning. Don't think you can do that here on the banjo's or it should have 2 taps , one for the frame and one for the bolt top.
Loctite would work if one can degrease the thread perfect... imho….otherwise it will not "glue" .
Safety wire will be the best remedie ….. of course a bit of job , cross drilling etc... sure as it keeps even some tension in the right "fastening" direction !
Perhaps i have another idea…. will post more if it can be done.

[cartoonz]

double tab washers are what you want... someone made some custom copper ones just for the Banjos a while back, not sure if there are still sets available. Far easier than the wire, although the wire works

[Belgiumbarry]

the cam timing was sure usefull..... bank 7-12 was 6° retarded , bank 1-6 even 9° ( crankshaft degrees) . Could see it easy on the crankshaft damper TDC mark , bank 7-12 was 1 full tooth behind till special tool came flush on heads , and 1-6 1 1/2 tooth. Logical , the further the sprockets are from the pulling one , the more chain stretch they see and are behind.
Don't know what there figures meant performance wise ? I know they retard/advance camshafts for performance , but i doubt it's usefull on a SOHC , as a M70 . Inlet and exhaust timing stay fixed to each other by the camshaft itself , we cannot play with settings as on a DOHC.

Ok, that's done and mark/tools are perfect aligned. So my water leak has at least had a other "good" purpose…..

[JDP530]

Here is a link to the cam banjo washers that are available:
http://www.engl-production.de/sicherungsblech.html
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[Belgiumbarry]

many thanks for the link JDP530 !

[rjjablo]

Can you replace the water pump tube without taking the water pump off?

I will be going thru my valve cover gaskets soon and it will be accessible

[Belgiumbarry]

The big tube sure NOT rjjablo... it slides in his O ring in the back (water collector) and then must be pushed down for it's little O ring connection with the valley pan. Only then the waterpump can be mounted , again sliding over it.
The little tube.... perhaps. It's hold at the back with a bolt and only has a hose on it... so if it can be pushed enough backwards/upwards to become free of the water pump , it would work… i think, did not check it .

Don't know if every 850 has that little "vent" connection between valley and big tube.... as i read posts were they were afraid pushing the big tube backwards when mounting the water pump.... ? that tube is really "fix" with the little connection . I even had to pull hard to get it free from it's little O ring. When that is "loose ", it sure won't be water tight anymore.

[rjjablo]

Might end up pulling the water pump also then Thanks

[Belgiumbarry]

no thanks , and pulling the water pump isn't that big job compared to removing inlet manifolds… after removal of fan and shroud everything is quite accessible.
No hidden nuts at the end of a dark tunnel.... as with the manifolds….

That's why i want to change the routing of the metal fuel return pipe.... ( and lifting eyes) …. those are the reason not all bolts can be reached with only 1/4" extensions and ground down socket.... so no need for swivels and magic. ( I hope.... )

[Belgiumbarry]

i installed the banjo washers from ENGL , indeed easy compared to drill and wires….
Also renewed the O ring in the chain tensioner…. but i don't find how we adjust the spring preload ? do we measure something ?

[Belgiumbarry]

while you are "in" there….. omg , this is the + alternator cable ,in his metal tube , after just rubbing pieces of it with 1 finger…. scary !

as that metal tube is also in the way for easy pulling some plugs i'm thinking to discard the tube and replacing the wire with a longer one and route it to the side of the car along the Pentosin metal tube.... no more above the exhaust heat !
I will just use the 2 brackets for the ignition cables and inlet manifold fix, once cut from the metal tube .

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[Belgiumbarry]

not cheap , but i bought new manifold gaskests... they have indeed a rubber lip both sides to be flattended with the flange pressured between . Will grease them so they can "seat" perfect . My old ones are stone hard and have numerous little cracks.

Did some cleaning on the manifolds with décapant… works great !

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[mbarrett635]

I've been sitting on a set of brand new BMW manifold gaskets waiting for the inevitable leak that has never appeared, through three different 8ers. I probably should just sell them (and then, of course, a leak will appear . . . ). LOL

[JDP530]

not cheap , but i bought new manifold gaskests... they have indeed a rubber lip both sides to be flattended with the flange pressured between . Will grease them so they can "seat" perfect . My old ones are stone hard and have numerous little cracks.

Did some cleaning on the manifolds with décapant… works great !

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The paint stripper you used did a good job on the manifolds! I just used the old manifold gaskets after reviving them by soaking them with some silicone spray for a couple of weeks. Then I used Reinzosil per recommendations on here to seal the old gaskets.
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[cartoonz]

yeah, do not "grease" them, do use Reinzosil

[Belgiumbarry]

i ment "grease" , so that the rubber lip can slide even when compressing…. i don't think new gaskets needs extra sealing with Reinzosil…..could of course do no harm and also act as a friction reducer for the lip that will be flattened (as compressing a O ring ).
Sure use it when reusing old gaskets , they don't have that lip anymore ( or never had ? ) , it's all flat by now and stone hard.

btw, i got all the aux heater stuff out …. that is the "hard" ware , i did cut the electrical wiring . No time now for digging into dashboard and searching the computer/relais.
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[cartoonz]

Use the Reinzosil.