My coupe is terrible in the snow- what am I doing wrong?

**FamilyForce6** · 11-13-2018, 12:39 PM

The vitals:
95 325is manual trans, open diff
artic claw studded snow tires (probably 20% tread left) (205/60/15)
60lb sand bag in trunk

Icy streets yesterday with a few inches of snow here in Denver and I ended up having to turn around and take my wife's car to work.

First incident- I was driving about 15-20MPH around a long, slow bend in 2nd gear- took my foot off gas (maybe 2000 rpms) and the back end started washing out on me. Because of the very low speed I got back under control, but it was very concerning that a very minor slow down using the engine caused the car to want to spin out.

2nd incident- 3 blocks later on a slight incline the car could not make it up a hill in a residential area. Starting in 2nd gear with the ACS turned off (otherwise the engine is prone to die starting in 2nd gear) and the rear end just kept sliding toward the curb. It was crazy. I was using VERY light throttle (almost idling). It took several tries and about 10 minutes but I finally was able to climb the incline (it wasn't even an hill!). Turned around and headed home.

I learned how to drive in Denver with rear wheel drive cars (before the used mag-chloride) and I never had snow tires. So I have years of experience driving in the snow. What in the heck am I doing wrong? Everything I've read on the forum says the E36 does fine in the snow with snow tires. My experience has been the opposite. It is one of the most difficult rear-wheel drive vehicles I've ever driven in the snow. (and that includes a 1975 monte carlo that had almost no weight over the rear tires).

Does the ACS only cut the throttle or does it also use the brakes? Do I need to leave it activated and just start carefully in 1st gear?

**hotdish** · 11-13-2018, 01:45 PM

There's got to be something off, because that sounds like my experience in the snow with nearly bald chinese tires on the back of my non-asc M3 (PO used them for drifting). Studded tires aren't legal where I live, but it sounds like you were driving more on ice than snow.

I'm pretty sure asc just cuts the throttle.

**Alpine 318is** · 11-13-2018, 01:54 PM

I think the 20% live left is your biggest problem. Try buying new tires and going from there.

**daze450** · 11-13-2018, 06:39 PM

Tires are key in the snow. Studs only help on ice, do nothing for snow. When i drove my e36 in winter (dont anymore) i was fine using a new set of Firestone Winterforce tires. Actually surprised how good they were for the price.

**Twistytee** · 11-13-2018, 07:32 PM

ACS only cuts the throttle on the E36. It wasn’t until the next generation of traction control that it incorporated abs. Ditto on the tire tread life. Anything close to 2/32” of tread will perform poorly in snow, ice or wet.

**scooper** · 11-13-2018, 08:47 PM

get an LSD. That and winter tires will do wonders.

**pbonsalb** · 11-13-2018, 09:14 PM

Your snows are worn out. Also consider an LSD diff swap.

**Nanniepoo** · 11-13-2018, 10:22 PM

Both my E36s have been great in the snow. Ran the cheapest snow tires the tire place sold.

Last year I was a little delinquent in switching to my snows and just trying to get up the driveway in 1/32" of snow with my summer tires was a trip, basically did it sideways.

**spyderg0d** · 11-14-2018, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by Twistytee

ACS only cuts the throttle on the E36. It wasn’t until the next generation of traction control that it incorporated abs. Ditto on the tire tread life. Anything close to 2/32” of tread will perform poorly in snow, ice or wet.

Asc+t. It incorporates a specific braking strategy to just the rear wheels. Either only braking the left or right rear wheel that is over rotating vs. The other side. Abs is different from the asc+t system as abs limits the brakes from over braking the tire. 2 very distinctly different systems. As in the asc system makes the wheel slow down by braking, while abs keeps the wheel from locking by reducing braking. The e36 does come with asc+t.

**spyderg0d** · 11-14-2018, 07:31 PM

But as a new yorker who has driven an e36 every winter for the last 7 years. I can tell you that its never a good idea to use the engine to help slow in snow or ice. Leave the clutch in and let the brake bias do its job. The bias will let the front wheels take the blunt of the stop.

The brakes and the pull of the engine will leave the rear tires slipping and causeing a slide out of the rear. Which ultimately makes abs useless as well. To avoid slip, you want as little force to the wheels as possible to maintain direction rather than speed.

**Nanniepoo** · 11-15-2018, 01:16 PM

To expand on spyder's comment about engine braking, you're only affecting the rear wheels, which is a terrible idea while turning in the snow. Probably not as strong of a resistance as pulling the hand brake, but similar principle. No one would be surprised if your rear end swung out from pulling the hand brake.

Side note I always leave ASC alone. When I want to have fun I'll disengage it. But again after ~8 years of owning E36s I've never really had a problem in the snow, only getting sideways when I want to. But again that's with snow tires, my adventures with summer tires in the snow/cold makes the car near impossible to drive.

**E36328Coupe** · 11-15-2018, 02:15 PM

In a low gear 2000RPM backing off is like flicking the handbrake. Ineptitude.

**doclees** · 11-16-2018, 09:12 PM

Tire are the biggest thing you can do for traction short of tracks. Years ago I had a 1987 olds wagon. While visiting my sister in Utah we had 4 inches of snow. The 50 ft driveway had a slight slope up. My brother in law couldn't get his 4x4 truck out. I towed it with the olds and a rope. New tiger paws at the time. They suck compared to Blizzack type tire today. 20% tread = bald for snow or ice.

**Eric93se** · 11-16-2018, 09:31 PM

The other day we had a 1 day storm in the north east and I got stuck with just 3 inches of snow and a layer of slush on the bottom. Fortunately a shovel was all that was needed to get some traction to get out of the parking lot. I have a spare pair of rims that I should put some snow tires on.

**blckstrm** · 11-17-2018, 11:06 PM

I remember when I first got my car back in 2009.

My uncle sold it to me cheap because my cousin couldn't drive it home to Idaho from Oregon in the winter. He told me a story about getting stuck in a half-inch of snow and shrugged his shoulders.

I'd only had 4x4s up to that point, but I got some Blizzaks that first winter and bombed around Salt Lake like there wasn't even snow on the ground.

It was better than any truck I'd ever had. By miles.

I'd have to agree that your tires are almost certainly the problem.

**E36328Coupe** · 11-18-2018, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by E36328Coupe

In a low gear 2000RPM backing off is like flicking the handbrake. Ineptitude.

Still this from description

**johnf** · 11-18-2018, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Alpine 318is

I think the 20% live left is your biggest problem....

That would be my long distance hunch as well.

How much tread depth do you have left? In Germany, 1.6mm = 0%, the legal minimum. On snow, however, you want more than 4mm (5/32").

**E36328Coupe** · 11-19-2018, 01:33 PM

Seriously

**johnf** · 11-19-2018, 03:35 PM

I don't know if that is being helpful.

Snow tire performance changes in sometimes curious ways as the tires wear down.

In any case, we seem to have lost the OP.

**E36328Coupe** · 11-19-2018, 03:40 PM

In a low gear 2000 RPM you can break the rear end lifting off on a roundabout or thousand other scenarios in good weather.
How you drive is more important than what. Ignore the physics and all the gear no idea won't help.

**spyderg0d** · 11-20-2018, 06:24 PM

I dont dare drive in snow unless I have at least 6 mm. When there gets to be an inch of snow accumulated in a 15 minute drive, plus slush pile, or frozen overpasses, 4mm will get you in a ditch more likely than not. With 4mm your basically sledding with race slicks.

**johnf** · 11-21-2018, 06:57 AM

New tread is best.

The ADAC found that at 7.5mm, a snow tire gave 60% traction compared to new. At 4mm, the traction had only decreased a bit further, to 48% – see the second set of bars, new/7.5mm/4mm:

These results are only representative, as snow is tremendously variable. The German car magazines publish tests like these often and on, usually with precise measurements, although I have yet to see a test where they rigorously characterized their snow.

**spyderg0d** · 11-21-2018, 06:18 PM

That pisses me off! The texture of the snow is what matters the most. Kinda like how they generalise wet road tests with garden hose wetted pavement. A bit different than the downpours that leave puddles in the valleys of the road. Real world specs should be considered when selling tires in certain geological areas.

**R Shaffner** · 11-21-2018, 07:50 PM

Many years ago Road & Track tested 3 different engine/drivetrain configurations for 2 WD cars in the snow: Front engine w/ FWD, Front engine w/ RWD, Rear Engine w/ RWD. The worst car in the snow was the front engine w/ RWD. It was also the best handling car in all other conditions. BMW's almost always have near 50/50 weight distribution. Great for dry and wet handling. Might be average for cornering in the snow, but not good for going or stopping.

Before I got my 540i I saw a review where someone said it was the best car he'd had in the snow. Complete bull. BMW's are nice, but brand loyalty can be blind. I've had MANY 2 WD cars that do much better, especially the SAABs and FWD Volvos. And of course all 4 WD cars, trucks and SUVs are better. So that puts my car and yours near the back of the pack, just ahead of a pickup with an empty bed.