Hi,
I have a 2003 Z4 3.0 SMG, having the dreaded SMG issues, and I wanted to start with the relay in hopes of an easy fix. My issue is I cant find the location of the relay. I found relays but they are all the wrong color, one is similar but its orange and appears to be the ABS/ASC relay rather then the SMG relay. I did plenty of searches here and online but really couldnt find anything aside from M3 information.
Anyone know where this Salmon Red Relay is located on a 2003 Z4 3.0i?
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z44.jpg z41.jpg
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z43.jpg
this is the replacement I bought
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z42.jpg
Close but not quite it, also this part number on the ASC shows its for ABS and Traction Control system.
I look in the trunk but didnt want to start unbolting random panels until I had some idea of where to try.
Anyone got a tip? Thanks
Sorry you have the wrong relay in the image which caused some confusion! (The relay you have in hand in the 3rd image is the secondary air pump, K6304a relay, part #12631742690. This is not the SMG relay!) https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...03#12631742690
The correct relay is located in the engine bay (located in the box in your second image).
Correct Relay: Z4 E85 Z4 3.0i Relay for hydraulic pump SMG K6318
Part # 61368366646
relay2.JPG
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=61_4209
Also See discussion in this thread, someone with the same issue found the problem to be related to a weak battery and low SMG fluid.
https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=33849
Last edited by tekoo; 11-12-2018 at 01:50 AM.
According to the parts diagram (see diagram in my prior post) the SMG relay should be that BLACK relay in your engine bay (red circle in image below). It seems that the SMG relay, the ACS (brake) relay and the secondary air pump relay are almost all identical in shape and color (could be the same type of relay used in different functions with unique part numbers in every application) and therefore it’s not uncommon to confuse one with the others if you rely on the color/appearance. The SMG relay can be salmon pink or black in color as the case in your Z4 (which also adds to the confusion).
Untitled.jpg
You will also have to check fuses F63 and F1a
relay3.JPG
Fuse F63 is located in passenger cabin above the interior fuse box (behind glove box) and may require glove box removal for access if not accessible otherwise:
relay4.JPG
Fuse F1a can be found in the same location where the SMG relay is located:
relay5.JPG
Last edited by tekoo; 11-12-2018 at 01:34 AM.
Ok, so I want to make sure I an understanding this all correctly, i pulled the other relays to verify their part numbers and here's what I had installed in my Z4:
The first/2nd picture from my initial post is this orange relay:
2.jpg 1.jpg
From what i read, this part is the SMG relay #61368366646, I got this car used so for all I know relays were not installed properly, but its been driving fine for months before the shifting issues, so I dont know.
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Now, the picture from Tekoo, with the corner relay circled in red, is not actually black, its blue:
3.jpg I believe this is is the backup light relay k6325? it shows part # 61368364582.
However the RealOEM.com sight lists this part as having 30 - 85 - 86 - 87 - 87, while mine (with the correct part number) lists this:
blue.jpg
30 - 85 - 86 - 86b -87
I am growing in confusion, I already want to just buy both new ones, but I am concerned if they are in the correct slots to begin with.
After looking at the diagrams it looks like the Orange and the Blue relays are actually reversed in my vehicle, the orange should be in the corner, while the blue should be on the bottom.
ex.jpgand ex2.jpg
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my current relay box
z41.jpg
When I removed the blue/orange relays their bases had the corresponding colors, is it possible they are in the wrong spots per the diagram but actually the correct relays? here's the pic so you can see:
image1.jpg
Just playing it safe in asking, since Id hate to burn something out by swapping relays incorrectly.
Last edited by BMAD; 11-12-2018 at 03:20 AM.
Can you post images of the part numbers of the actual relays in your vehicle and their pin layout?
1.jpg
61368366646, pin layout is as shown in diagram example in my above post
30 - 86 - 85 - 87 - 87a
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3.jpg / blue.jpg
61368364582, pin layout matches the diagram pic, BUT the numbers underneath are a bit different, the RealOEM part says 30/85/86/87/87, but mine says 30/85/86/86b/87. not sure if that matters
I don’t believe you can swap the relays even if you try. Their pins clearly have different orientations. Also the thread I referred to in my first post has an image with the ASC relay matching the same location as yours! The question is how can the SMG relay be labeled ASC (brake) relay. Also if you digg in the Realoem part diagram you won’t be able to find ASC relays anywhere!!
The question is; 1-does your vehicle even come with an SMG relay or is it just an M3 model specific relay?! 2-what is the name of this ASC relay and where is it in the parts catalog?
What’s the last 7 digits of your VIN?
Maybe some of the product vendors on this forum may be able to help?
Last edited by tekoo; 11-12-2018 at 11:17 AM.
The later model year diagram shows the relay in the correct spot matching yours. So perhaps the diagrams were corrected later or your Z4 has the newer model layout. This is the diagram of 2007 models.
A4C3C888-C45C-47D3-BC65-EB02C324BFF8.jpeg
I checked my Z4 which is 2007 automatic with streptronic manual gear and there were no relays whatsoever!
89728A1E-9661-4D58-9562-776C6E0C51F7.jpgB6DFB6A0-2745-4EA1-AD3E-38E7661A6B1B.jpg
I suggest you contact the parts department of your local dealer and try to figure it out.
In all circumstances you would have to check the other related fuses, the battery condition, your SMG fluid level in addition to scanning the vehicle for error codes (especially the SMG control unit).
Last 7 of VIN are LT24550
When i was looking around for a replacement for that orange relay I was finding relays with the same part number and pin layout but they were each labeled different things. One was labeled as the ABS system relay, another was the SMG control relay. I wonder if they just use the ASC relay for non SMG models, but the pins and whatnot appear to be the same. Quite a confusing process! I checked the fuses associated and they were all good. My hydraulic fluid is low however, and I suspect the rubber boot on the actuator is probably deteriorated so I'll most likely have to address that.
I searched again using the official BMW ETK database and your VIN
1-ASC relay can not be found as a component of your vehicle and is not one of the listed relays in your electrical system
2-SMG relay (pink) and backlight relay (blue) are also reversed in ETK diagram however there is a note below diagram saying diagram is suggestive and may not represent the actual location in vehicle.
3-SMG relay part number is 61368366646 confirmed with VIN.
4-Backlight relay is 61368364582.
5-The guy in other forum also had an ASC label on the pink relay so it is not something related to your vehicle specifically
6-You definitely have an SMG relay as indicated in your wiring diagram and parts catalogue, and it can’t be identified anywhere else than the engine fuse box.
Conclusion: ASC relay may or may not be SMG relay. If SMG with correct part number is available and an identical match in terms of fitment and part number to ASC you can always swap and see if it makes a difference.
However, it's more likely your condition will disappear once you fix the boot and correct the SMG fluid level as the case with the other guy in Z4-forum thread.
etk1.JPGetk2.JPGetk3.JPG
Last edited by tekoo; 11-12-2018 at 10:08 PM.
To add to the confusion,
I just noticed that the blue backlight relay should only be present in vehicles with automatic transmission (see real OEM note in red in image you provided). This explains why the part number was not listed under the diagram as it should in ETK software.
This is the first time I see conflicting info from these references. UNLESS your engine fuse box was replaced by previous owner who purchased a non identical match.
Last edited by tekoo; 11-12-2018 at 10:20 PM.
I think you have the same layout as E46 M3 fuse box
http://www.nugadgets.com/customcontent/SmgDiyMain.html
Tekoo, thanks very much for all the info. I really appreciate everything you contributed.
Hey Tek one last question,
Regarding the fluid, I am wondering if you know by chance what fluid I should be using. I had read it would be Pentosin CHF11s from other threads I have found, but now I am also seeing Pentosin ATF-1, and also that I should have a sticker under my car telling me the actual OEM fluid. I find myself getting a lot of M3 info, so I suppose I shouldnt just assume its the same for a Z4 e85
You are welcome!
Non of the transmission fluids you mentioned is either approved by BMW or meets the spec for your specific SMG gearbox.
For Z4 E85 vehicles with SMG transmission and production date:
up to 03/2007-> MTF-LT2 (BMW part # 83222339219)
after 03/2007-> MTF-LT3 (BMW part# 83222339221)
Your Z4 was produced 08/2003 so you should use MFT-LT2.
You can google either MFT-LT2 or 83222339219 to find competitive prices, discounts and alternatives. However I strongly recommend using OEM BMW fluid as your transmission is 15 years old (old transmissions become very sensitive to oil quality) and you are adding to the original SMG BMW fluid (not recommended to mix transmission fluids). Also transmission fluid should last a long time so OEM is cost effective.
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=23_0928
http://www.bmw-etk.info/parts-catalo...28/83222339219
Last edited by tekoo; 11-13-2018 at 03:44 PM.
I would pick either OEM BMW or FEBI MTF
Here are few options:
https://www.rmeuropean.com/Products/...219-MFG36.aspx
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-...n/83222339219/
https://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin...on=83222339219
https://www.bimmerworld.com/Fluids/D...ion-Fluid.html
Keep us posted on your progress and good luck!
Last edited by tekoo; 11-13-2018 at 03:20 PM.
Few transmission related DIYs for E85 that maybe helpful:
http://www.bimmerdiy.com/dir/e85/trans
This applies to the gearbox oil! SMG fluid is Pentosin CHF 11S - never mix this up! Filling in gearbox oil in the SMG hydraulic system will become very expensive..
Moreover, if the hydraulic fluid level is too low, it means that there is a leak in the system. In this case you should check the clutch actuator (slave cylinder) if leaking. We offer a repair for this part.
Ah, ok i see, thanks for the info Dom, that would have been pretty troublesome im sure.
Actually using the term ‘SMG fluid’ is what causes the confusion and mix up as SMG is the name of the gearbox!
The correct name by BMW is ‘hydraulic fluid for clutch hydraulic system’ and yes in this case you can use CHF 11s fluid or search for BMW part # 81229407758
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ts-smg/1NBUdl9
https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...ts-smg/EERN5Ly
Anyone ever added in their fluid, is it a simple top off into a reservoir or does it have to get pumped in?
Check the link that I provided in my last post.
Ideally it should be a software assisted procedure where ‘INPA’ or ‘DIS’ the BMW dealer softwares prepare the vehicle and walks you through the steps to top the fluid off after you bleed the system.
Last edited by tekoo; 11-16-2018 at 01:48 AM.
Hi, did you ever get this sorted? was it just the fluid?
thanks
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