Reupholstering sport seats

[katit2]

This is more like report with pics post. I always liked how new upholstery looks. I know I can get seats reupholstered "profesionally" but it's no fun. This car for me is all about DIY, not about paying someone for labor. It is easy to pay, but it's not easy to learn and do it yourself. 2 things I always wanted to do myself: paint and upholstery. Upholstery happening now.

I did post before how I restored my current comfort seats via repaint. But those seats had pretty decent leather. About 6mo ago I got 3 sport seats. Leather also not ripped but was pretty stiff/old. And it would rip if you pull it. I figured it is not a good candidate for repaint. And I figured it's time to learn new skill.

So far I got proper sewing machine, spent about 40-50hr reading books, watching videos, researching materials. Now that machine under control I'm learning on how to take templates, sew stuff. Practicing with cheap vinyl, this is what you going to see on pictures. After I get good with this - I will get real leather and complete project.

So far I made 7(!) headrest covers with various degree of "niceness" ) Hardest part I guess.


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[jmile46]

Beautifully done!


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[bblazen]

Impressive! I definitely don't have the patience for this lol

[katit2]

Impressive! I definitely don't have the patience for this lol

Yeah, it's very tedious. When you think good upholstery place charges too much - don't!

After doing 4 headrests I was almost ready to give up. But then I uphostered my shop chair, did some other practice pieces and I felt like I'm getting better. I think by the time I complete whole seat in vinyl - I will be ready for leather. I also see lot of issues with my work, but then I look at factory stuff - they have same problems! So, that tells me it's not that bad afterall. And new leather will be better than old for sure..



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[Old525i]

Love this thread!

[m60power]

Wow, this is impressive!

[shogun]

Nice work.
Here are some other samples of E34 leather DIY incl. dash, maybe it helps
http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/707946/ http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/707947 http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/708718
Text copied: Subject: Goodness, thank you for all your nice comments! Author: rick540 Posted on: 2009-09-21

To try and answer your questions in one post...

1) I had never sewn or stitched leather or anything else in my life before. I borrowed a 20yr old conventional Elna sewing machine from my mother and practiced with offcuts. I discovered one can turn it by hand doing literally one stitch at a time and get very straight lines this way. I used a Pizza cutter to score straight lines on the back of the leather as a guide and then glued the two pieces together on the visible side with contact, stitched it and used thinners to remove the contact once it was stitched. (The thinners did not harm the leather surface at all surprisingly)

2) The leather is about 1.2mm thick and the back was folded over both sides and glued down after stitching, used an old Coke bottle to flatten it. Leather compresses very well and stays that way when the glue dries.

3) The centre vent, upper vent, both speaker covers had to be sanded smaller with a belt snader and resprayed to fit the holes, wasn't too much of an issue. The cluster, I used an old one shoved in with leather offcuts and then heated the plastic dash with a hot air gun, this enlarged the hole enough that the cluster fitted the leather covered hole afterwards.

4) Gluing straight lines, used heaps of wet contact on the back, this gave me about 5 min to massage the leather into place allowing me to get perfectly straight lines and flat surface before the contact glue dried.(The trick is not to use it as contact, just a kind of setting slime)

5) I had a few dashes lying around, destroyed the first by trying to cut the surface off to give more space didn't work, second one (the one I used) I sanded with a handheld belt sander with 60 grit sandpaper to give a rough surface for the glue and even things out. I had eight door linings and destroyed about four trying to get them apart, found out lots of Acetone allowed me to get the vynyl off and then used the wet contact technique to shape the leather onto the panel. I did the sills first and then the door lining working top downwards. The front doors were Hell where the pockets are and took a few attempts. Fortunately one can drench the leather with thinners and retry.

All the separate little bits were all glued together before stitching and cleaned up with thinners afterwards. The door linings use two different types of foam rubber as the backing to get the surface flat. Special nylon thread was used. The leather was purchased from a local supplier called Woodheads. I used grain corrected leather (the grain is stamped on) as this hides any uneveness in corners.

If I can do it, you can! Just took lots of common sense thinking and a few retry attempts. No it wasn't easy, but if you refuse to give up, you will eventually get it right. (I gave up and got desparate a few times, had bits of car interior all over the house, and thought many times "Damnit I can do this, some guy in Germany or Italy did")

E34 540iA M60 , 1997 E39 540iA M62, Capetown South Africa

[Sir Montalbon]

Awesome "thread!"



Those vinyl covers look great!

[TGreene]

Yeah, those seats look as good as some professional jobs I have seen - jobs that made me not want to get my seats reupholstered, but professional nonetheless. =p

Keep it up. That would be a neat skill to have.

[katit2]

Made another headrest. Those are PITA. Now it looks pretty good, just like original was. Didn't hit it with steam and it's not leather but I can tell it is right.


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[katit2]

Then I wanted to check how French seam will look on those. HORRIBLE. So far I tend to keep it simple, like original with no decorative seams.

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[Sir Montalbon]

Looking good. Let us know when you are ready to move on to leather and start taking orders! I could use a sport seat bolster or two...

[katit2]

Looking good. Let us know when you are ready to move on to leather and start taking orders! I could use a sport seat bolster or two...

I'm almost out of vinyl so I may get a hide from Tandy's for $90 to practice with real leather.

Here is a thing (re: taking orders): Probably not going to happen for multiple reasons:
1. I'm perfectionist and I don't think I will reach that level simply due to lack of time. I wouldn't offer my service if it's not perfect.
2. My time worth much more than trimmer's time. May sound like show off, but thats a truth and if I took on doing something - it's just for fun and maybe pay for supplies/tools.
3. If you want GOOD quality - you need to have good leather. Good leather is at ~$10sqft(for example leather from Tandy's comes at $2-2.50sqft). Cheap auto leather is at $5. I will need a hide for what I do (centers will be in suede). If I did all leather - that would be 2 hides $600+ each.
There is so much about leather - it's whole different topic. Basically there is no good cheap leather. Good vinyl may cost more than cheap leather.
4. Leather comes colored and sold by hide or 1/2. So I would need to order at least ~$400 worth of material (Thread is like $12 per.. + sew foam). Economy of scale does not work well Half hide will be good for bolsters on 2 seats.
5. Making covers is one thing, but proper install also important. Steaming, stretching, etc - all make difference on final look.

WorldUpholstery can do whole set (2 seats) for $1600 I beleive. 600 per hide and $1000 their labor. I would think theirs should be good. This is place where I'm going to get leather. They sell german leather and samples I got look very good.
There is seller on eBay and they can sell just parts - bolsters were at $70 but I can't beleive there is good leather and or quality on those. They also didn't respond if they have sewfoam (aka scrim foam) on theirs. It's harder to sew with foam but it makes difference in final look/feel.

So yeah. This stuff is not simple or cheap. I also don't think replacing one or 2 bolsters will look good. 25 year old leather is REALLY old. BTW, I have 2 seats of good leather in this "brownish" color. Will put them up for sale later.

[katit2]

I made 3 more headrests, another set of templates for headrest. I still like single reinforced seam better then plain seam. I think it's good for now, tired of doing same thing over and over. Will move onto other parts and then do some more practice runs on headrests later.
Given that I didn't steam/stretch very good - I think result is decent. All parts that I don't like not visible anyways after install.

[katit2]

Got some real leather from eBay. Automotive leather but.. Who knows. It was real cheap, I got it strictly to practice sewing real leather.
When I received it (2 almost full hides) - I realized that color is really close to the seats that I'm reupholstering. I'm not sure what it is - but you guys know. You can see 2 hides + piece of original bolster next to each other.

If someone needs replacement bolsters/etc - I will make them for you in this color. All it takes - shipping + some beer money. For me it's practice and to cover cost of material. Cannot guarantee perfect result but it will be decent I promise


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[sugaki]

That's some serious skill (and cajones) to do such an undertaking. Upholstery is notoriously difficult, and you're making it seem like anybody can pick it up. My odd fantasy is to make the steering column black trim into leather, like the full leather packages.

[katit2]

Got a question in PM, I thought it would be a good info to add here

A while ago I had an idea of using as rear seat outside panels for a source of matching leather to replace
the worn outside lower and upper bolster on my sport drivers seat.
What size roughly is your template for the upper bolster? Would I be able to cut it from a rear cover?

I really doubt it. I will post pics of templates next time if I don't forget. But I don't think you can make any part of other part aside from some small pieces.
When you add sew allowance and flatten out - they all pretty big. MAYBE if one piece will be made from 2 pieces with seam strategically placed so it's not very visible.

Like I mentioned in my post above - 25 year old leather is OLD and brittle. If panel looks intact - it's dry and it's not going to conform/stretch as new. And once stretched - won't be as strong.
Unfortunately the more I learn about all this - the more I understand that it's pretty much all or nothing if you want it to be good.

[katit2]

Just some pics of today's progress. Templating of a back piece. Finding centers, then marking one side and mirroring to another.
It is not done, yet, need to compare to what other side looks like when taken from old piece. Then I will do more remeasuring against foam padding. And the make final tweaks. So this template is not final.

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[Layne]

Wow, very nice! You're already better than all of the professionals around here. Can't really blame them for serving the market that exists (mostly cheapskates with crappy cars), but there's nowhere to go for good work. I've actually heard of people hauling cars from Texas to Los Angeles to get the interiors done.


The french stitching is done with a double needle machine. There's no way you can ever match up the 2 rows perfectly without it.

[katit2]

The french stitching is done with a double needle machine. There's no way you can ever match up the 2 rows perfectly without it.

I would disagree on this one. With enough experience people get perfect French seams. This is guide foot I bought to help. See pics what I get with a foot.
Problem with headrests above is with handling curves, not the fact it's a French seam. If you can't handle machine correctly - you will have French seam off-center, etc. Similar issues. Not much help that it's actually spaced evenly. So yeah, with all equal you can do much better job with double-needle(but restricted to certain distance). But given enough experience - regular machine will do just as good.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SPRING-EDGE...HvDm:rk:2:pf:0

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[moroza]

Good stuff! Reupholstery is one of the major elements to keeping our cars in good shape. I'm with Layne - while you're not quite at OEM BMW level, this is better than most professional work I've seen. I might have to refer to you someone I know with a fleet of older BMWs.

Regarding materials... I just checked your local Craigslist. There are currently six leather couches being given away for free, at least two of them black, modern-style with big solid sections, and without a ton of damage. $10/sqft? Pfft. Try $5 of gas, a couple hours of your time, and at worst ~$20 to take the remains to the dump (or burn the wooden frame). I don't know how big a couch is in square feet, but it's certainly bigger than a car seat. Sometimes you can even find a one-piece back that's been up against a wall for ages and never had an ass or cigarette touch it.

The inspiration for this is that I once stripped a black fake-leather couch for headliner material. Total cost for that project: $10 of glue.

Hell, someone once paid me $20 to take their couch.

EDIT: ok, at least two of them are fake leather, but another two claim to be real, and from what I've seen of my local Craigslist, that's not a fluke. Remove "leather" from the query and we've got 36 at this moment. And then there's "sofa" and "sectional" and "ottoman" and "loveseat" and some chairs...all free, some junk, some not. Have fun!



I hear you on the difficulty of old leather. Perhaps soaking loose leather in a bucket of, say, Leatherique for a while might make it pliable enough? Couches don't usually get the UV exposure of car seats.

Might I suggest that the next thing to try be bison leather?

[CarterH]

Nice work.
Here are some other samples of E34 leather DIY incl. dash, maybe it helps
http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/708718

I really love those leather inserts on the door panels, it gives such a nice modern look.

[katit2]

Regarding materials... I just checked your local Craigslist. There are currently six leather couches being given away for free, at least two of them black, modern-style with big solid sections, and without a ton of damage. $10/sqft? Pfft. Try $5 of gas, a couple hours of your time, and at worst ~$20 to take the remains to the dump (or burn the wooden frame). I don't know how big a couch is in square feet, but it's certainly bigger than a car seat. Sometimes you can even find a one-piece back that's been up against a wall for ages and never had an ass or cigarette touch it.

I hear you on the difficulty of old leather. Perhaps soaking loose leather in a bucket of, say, Leatherique for a while might make it pliable enough? Couches don't usually get the UV exposure of car seats.

Might I suggest that the next thing to try be bison leather?

Here is my take: I like to learn upholstery. I don't like to pickup people's couches, take them apart, etc 2 hides shipped for $50 from eBay is as cheap as it can get for practice material. And those are whole hides AND they are automotive. Thing is - upholstery leather is not the same as automotive leather. This couch leather will be expired in a car after couple years under UV exposure. UV protection/treatments is a difference.

Old leather: I'm not a pro, I just see what I see. There is my post somewhere showing how I re-dyed my current "comfort seats". Car had less than 100k, leather was slightly weared on exit bolsters. I swapped L/R covers and now I have great looking seats. But even doing those I did rip some leather underneeth when recovering. Just pull with a pliers to put it in a spot and it rips. Those sport seats I'm doing - I can take panel and rip it apart with my hand. Thread is stronger than leather. It reaps along seams. I can rip it with bare hands at any spot. It's just like weak cardboard. Even "new" leather have expiration date, it can't just be stored indefinitely. I suspect stuff I got from eBay is probably some old stuff people getting rid of.

I did bunch of research, talked to people, etc on what would be the good stuff/brand. Well, good stuff is $10+ sqft which make $500+ per hide. Good stuff will be soft but strong. And it will last. So other then being lucky and getting some cheap and good stuff - there is no easy way. And there is no way to tell by look/feel. It's pretty much getting it from reputable seller with a warrantly.

[Layne]

I would disagree on this one. With enough experience people get perfect French seams. This is guide foot I bought to help. See pics what I get with a foot.
Problem with headrests above is with handling curves, not the fact it's a French seam. If you can't handle machine correctly - you will have French seam off-center, etc. Similar issues. Not much help that it's actually spaced evenly. So yeah, with all equal you can do much better job with double-needle(but restricted to certain distance). But given enough experience - regular machine will do just as good.

Sorry, I meant to explain better, but I had to rush off. Yes, you can certainly sew 2 parallel lines and make it look great. But you'll never match the exact number of stitches one-for-one, like the BMW factory did (or whoever made the leather for them). Let's say your french seam rounds a corner. Just like a car differential, the outside row has a farther distance to go. With the double needle, the outside stitches will get a little bigger, and the inside will get a little smaller, but the number of stitches will continue to match. Here's a photo of an E34 armrest to illustrate that. With 2 separate stitches, you'll just have a different number of same-sized stitches. That's not necessarily a problem, and it can still look great. I didn't mean to sound discouraging, just pointing out that it's not a level playing field unless you buy the multi-thousand dollar double needle machine. But sometimes the greatest skill is developed by working with what you have.


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[katit2]

I really love those leather inserts on the door panels, it gives such a nice modern look.

Slightlty off-topic, but those are really easy to do.. I wish I had my sewing machine when I did mine.