Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: Another eBay header thread - I searched but can't find '97 z3 2.8L models

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    30
    My Cars
    1997 BMW Z3 2.8 Roadster

    Another eBay header thread - I searched but can't find '97 z3 2.8L models

    I have a 1997 Z3 left-hand driver with the M52B28 engine, prod date 1997-04-28. I have had this car for over 20 years now and it seems to be a weird "in-between" model as they introduced neat things like OBD2, 6cyl and optional roll hoops. I'm doing a bunch of the bolt-on mods and will get a tune soon. M50 manifold is installed and I have Magnaflow cat, drop pipe, and cat-back in hand. I'm looking for headers and (S52 or M54) cams. Then maybe ASC delete, CAI, larger MAF, and a tune.

    I have searched for and read countless threads on many sites and saw the lamented "not yet another ebay header thread" complaint a few times. I have read the details on many auctions. I did a bunch of research and can't seem to find the headers for my car that aren't nearly $1000. I'm willing to give a try at eBay headers even if I must cut off pieces of my old exhaust and weld it myself, but I can't do a competent job of bending/welding the headers if they don't fit in the engine bay.

    I already tried buying one set that claimed to support my car by year and engine, but the drop pipe flange on this set has two holes where my drop pipe has three. Pet peeve - many of those listings that indicate z3 support cover all years and engines. So this one set of headers supposedly works on both the 4cyl and 6cyl engines. I'm rather sure that these won't work.

    I found E36 M52 headers whose pictures show three-hole drop pipe flanges but they don't list any z3 among supported models. I occasionally see headers without drop pipe flanges. I'm unsure if these will fit in the space with enough clearance.

    Do any of you have any recommendations? At this point I'm looking at keeping the stock manifold.

    Thanks for your time!
    Last edited by wagnerism; 11-05-2018 at 12:38 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Oklahoma City, OK
    Posts
    309
    My Cars
    2000 BMW Z3 2.3
    I have Schmiedmann S-Tech "Shorty" M50 M52 headers on my M52TU. Clearance was an issue with these, as one of the exhaust flange bolts was totally inaccessible and had to be welded in place. And one of the O2 bungs also was in a poor location, so an additional O2 bung had to be welded in. On top of that, special care had to be taken to clear the x-brace.

    And since the Z3 has catalytic converters integrated into the exhaust manifold, you have to find a universal aftermarket cat and make it fit in place downstream of its normal location, if you still want or need a cat. This likely means having to extend your O2 sensor wires, or abandoning the post-cat O2s alltogether with a custom tune.

    Others might be able to point you to parts they used, but my solution wasn't at all plug and play, and ended up being on the pricy side because of that reason. I still like the sound of it, however.

    Edit: Sorry, didn't catch that you already had taken care of the catalytic converter. I'd assumed incorrectly that all M52 had cats integrated into the exhaust manifold. You might want to check out the long version of the S-Tech headers. Good quality, but may still require some custom work to clear the x brace.
    Last edited by Schreier; 11-06-2018 at 09:20 AM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Johnson City, TN
    Posts
    41
    My Cars
    2000 BMW Z3 Roadster 2.8
    What about search based on another car with the same motor that was more "common". For instance the m52b28 was more common towards the end of the 2000 model year. I'm not sure about the exhaust flange on it, but I don't mind looking at my car to see.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Tim @ BMW of Dallas
    Posts
    1,889
    My Cars
    98 Z3 2.8
    It really looks like you have the right list of mods there. I wouldn't even worry about the headers, personally. The factory ones are pretty nice and I doubt you'd really see any gains from aftermarket. Only reason I did headers on my M52TU is because they are terrible and have cats in them. M52 doesn't have this problem.
    96 320i Touring
    98 Z3 2.8 Roadster
    01 PY M Coupe
    96 Z3 1.9 - DASC
    95 318ti Clubsport
    94 Miata M-Edition
    13 smart fortwo



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    892
    My Cars
    W205, Z3
    Have "ebay headers" installed on my '99 M52TU. Same engine, slight refresh so experience is really the same.

    As others have stated, installing these is an utter PITA. I did this job with a mechanic on his lift and it still took us a handful of hours due to low clearance and all the modifications required to the header to get it to line up perfectly with the rest of the exhaust system. I ended up going catless and trying to do the '02 bung sensor mod' that was said to trick the car into not throwing a CEL. However, it doesn't really work. Sometimes the CEL will go away and then it comes back for a few months. Not a big deal considering the engine purrs smoothly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim95M3 View Post
    It really looks like you have the right list of mods there. I wouldn't even worry about the headers, personally. The factory ones are pretty nice and I doubt you'd really see any gains from aftermarket. Only reason I did headers on my M52TU is because they are terrible and have cats in them. M52 doesn't have this problem.
    Installing the headers was the biggest single noticeable power improvement in regards to my mods. And I have a similar mod combination as OP. You notice the car pulls a bit harder on the second half of the power band and breathes a lot better on revs. Oh and with the magnaflow the sound is pretty awesome once you accelerate. It has nice rasp and growl to it. Only complaint, as with any magnaflow, is the drone at lower RPM.
    1999 Z3 2.8 Roadster Hardtop - Boston Green/Black, Magnaflow 14815, Headers, Custom CAI, IE RSM, ACS Shocks/Struts + H&R Sport, M54 Manifold, Cosmos Strut Brace.

    2007 335i Sedan 6 speed - Black/Black

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    12,462
    My Cars
    36 Cylinders
    But you have a different engine, headers, and intake manifold setup than what is in first post.
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    892
    My Cars
    W205, Z3
    Some relative input is better than none. Do you have anything to add?
    1999 Z3 2.8 Roadster Hardtop - Boston Green/Black, Magnaflow 14815, Headers, Custom CAI, IE RSM, ACS Shocks/Struts + H&R Sport, M54 Manifold, Cosmos Strut Brace.

    2007 335i Sedan 6 speed - Black/Black

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Arida Zona
    Posts
    30,108
    My Cars
    z3
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim95M3 View Post
    It really looks like you have the right list of mods there. I wouldn't even worry about the headers, personally. The factory ones are pretty nice and I doubt you'd really see any gains from aftermarket. Only reason I did headers on my M52TU is because they are terrible and have cats in them. M52 doesn't have this problem.
    ???

    Have you even seen the stock M52 headers
    They are awful lol, they may not have cats in them but they are a very poor flowing 3-1 log style and very short. Aftermarket long tubular headers are a substantial improvement
    I have headers on my S52 M3 but cant offer specific help on the Z3 chassis...
    Last edited by BimmerBreaker; 11-06-2018 at 02:35 PM.

    Going into my TENTH YEAR of providing high quality reproduction BMW fabrics!

    PRICE CUT on ALL FABRICS
    Offering the best prices on the best quality reproduction fabrics!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Tim @ BMW of Dallas
    Posts
    1,889
    My Cars
    98 Z3 2.8
    Quote Originally Posted by MarcMacZ3 View Post
    Installing the headers was the biggest single noticeable power improvement in regards to my mods. And I have a similar mod combination as OP. You notice the car pulls a bit harder on the second half of the power band and breathes a lot better on revs. Oh and with the magnaflow the sound is pretty awesome once you accelerate. It has nice rasp and growl to it. Only complaint, as with any magnaflow, is the drone at lower RPM.
    And that's because you have an M52TU. Literally an entirely different cylinder head, with completely different intake and exhaust manifold setup. The OP does not have a TU motor. All I'm saying. If you put headers on a M52B28 engine, your "seat of the pants" placebo power gains are not worth the effort.
    96 320i Touring
    98 Z3 2.8 Roadster
    01 PY M Coupe
    96 Z3 1.9 - DASC
    95 318ti Clubsport
    94 Miata M-Edition
    13 smart fortwo



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Arida Zona
    Posts
    30,108
    My Cars
    z3
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim95M3 View Post
    And that's because you have an M52TU. Literally an entirely different cylinder head, with completely different intake and exhaust manifold setup. The OP does not have a TU motor. All I'm saying. If you put headers on a M52B28 engine, your "seat of the pants" placebo power gains are not worth the effort.
    Its a 10-20 whp gain depending on other supporting mods...
    If he does the full intake mods he mentioned, doing headers too and then getting a tune will yield a reasonable increase in power

    Going into my TENTH YEAR of providing high quality reproduction BMW fabrics!

    PRICE CUT on ALL FABRICS
    Offering the best prices on the best quality reproduction fabrics!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    3,489
    My Cars
    2000 Z3 2.3, 2014 M235i
    Quote Originally Posted by MarcMacZ3 View Post
    Have "ebay headers" installed on my '99 M52TU. Same engine, slight refresh so experience is really the same.

    As others have stated, installing these is an utter PITA. I did this job with a mechanic on his lift and it still took us a handful of hours due to low clearance and all the modifications required to the header to get it to line up perfectly with the rest of the exhaust system. I ended up going catless and trying to do the '02 bung sensor mod' that was said to trick the car into not throwing a CEL. However, it doesn't really work. Sometimes the CEL will go away and then it comes back for a few months. Not a big deal considering the engine purrs smoothly.


    Installing the headers was the biggest single noticeable power improvement in regards to my mods. And I have a similar mod combination as OP. You notice the car pulls a bit harder on the second half of the power band and breathes a lot better on revs. Oh and with the magnaflow the sound is pretty awesome once you accelerate. It has nice rasp and growl to it. Only complaint, as with any magnaflow, is the drone at lower RPM.
    I am also running ebay headers on an M52tuB25, granted for our cars it is a bigger boost than for the M52B28s, but in theory, it will be similar. If we are going for quality of mod, I have had mine for a couple years now, and they have been ok. I had mine ceramic coated, but that was just a precaution.

    In any case, I will throw another voice in there, this was one of the biggest noticeable gains. The relative butt dyno feel, was similar to when I did ZHP cams, 3.0 intake manifold. The only other thing I would say is a more aggressive diff. Not sure how the earlier cars were, but the TU cars had crap diff ratios, I find 3.46 is a much nicer option for a street car still with the 5 speed, without being too annoying on the freeway.

    Suspension: Bilstein Sports, GC Coilover conversion, IE Subframe Bushings, IE RTABs, M roadster sways, M roadster front control arms, M roadster Front calipers/hubs.
    Engine/Driveline: M54B30 intake Manifold, Dinan CAI, ZHP Cams, Headers, Underdrive pulleys, Conforti Software, 3.46 diff.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    oskaloosa,ia
    Posts
    898
    My Cars
    '01 3.0 ZCoupe
    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...date-on-my-car

    This was my experience with headers. It was an unbelievable PITA for me. I tried three sets of Ebay headers, and none worked. The bimmerbrakes headers were great. No issues at all with fitment.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Tim @ BMW of Dallas
    Posts
    1,889
    My Cars
    98 Z3 2.8
    Quote Originally Posted by Luftwaffe1O1 View Post
    In any case, I will throw another voice in there, this was one of the biggest noticeable gains. The relative butt dyno feel, was similar to when I did ZHP cams, 3.0 intake manifold. The only other thing I would say is a more aggressive diff. Not sure how the earlier cars were, but the TU cars had crap diff ratios, I find 3.46 is a much nicer option for a street car still with the 5 speed, without being too annoying on the freeway.
    I've done the B30 intake mani, intake camshaft, re-sealed vanos, re-built DISA, eBay headers, and 3.46 diff. Of all of those things, the headers and diff for sure made the biggest difference.
    96 320i Touring
    98 Z3 2.8 Roadster
    01 PY M Coupe
    96 Z3 1.9 - DASC
    95 318ti Clubsport
    94 Miata M-Edition
    13 smart fortwo



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    3,489
    My Cars
    2000 Z3 2.3, 2014 M235i
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim95M3 View Post
    I've done the B30 intake mani, intake camshaft, re-sealed vanos, re-built DISA, eBay headers, and 3.46 diff. Of all of those things, the headers and diff for sure made the biggest difference.
    Yep. I guess even for non-TU cars its a nice boost hehe.

    Headers just opened up so much breathing room, before I had the headers installed, I was running pretty much all the other mods already. And they made a good difference, but man, with the headers the car just kept pulling all the way to redline.

    The ebay headers can be a pain in the ass from what I hear to get the right set. I used the same vendor some of the guys on here recommended I cant recall whom exactly. But mine fit nicely.

    Suspension: Bilstein Sports, GC Coilover conversion, IE Subframe Bushings, IE RTABs, M roadster sways, M roadster front control arms, M roadster Front calipers/hubs.
    Engine/Driveline: M54B30 intake Manifold, Dinan CAI, ZHP Cams, Headers, Underdrive pulleys, Conforti Software, 3.46 diff.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    McLean, VA
    Posts
    4,632
    My Cars
    02 MC, 01 MR, 99 Z3C
    My car and OP’s were built 13 days apart. Is there experience here with the Turner shorty headers? Their site description states the secondary air pump needs to be deleted, but I am not certain if that will trigger a permanent CEL. These headers are compatible with stock cats.

    https://www.ecstuning.com/b-turner-m...BoCjqMQAvD_BwE
    Last edited by KBH22102; 11-14-2018 at 04:39 PM.
    Kelvin

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Arida Zona
    Posts
    30,108
    My Cars
    z3
    Quote Originally Posted by KBH22102 View Post
    My car and OP’s were built 13 days apart. Is there experience here with the Turner shorty headers? Their site description states the secondary air pump needs to be deleted, but I am not certain if that will trigger a permanent CEL. These headers are compatible with stock cats.

    https://www.ecstuning.com/b-turner-m...BoCjqMQAvD_BwE
    SAP deletes will throw codes, but can be removed with a tune

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Oklahoma City, OK
    Posts
    309
    My Cars
    2000 BMW Z3 2.3
    I'm not sure why the SAP would need to be deleted. I mean, it could help installation to get it out of the way, but how on earth would the headers interfere with it? I've got very similar shorty headers on my car, and the SAP is still there (but will be deleting it soon enough).

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    30
    My Cars
    1997 BMW Z3 2.8 Roadster
    Thank you all for your replies! My next post will share what I found/tried with eBay headers. This post is about similar vehicles.

    Per JLyons85 I looked at similar models. Are the exhaust ports the same between M52/M52TU? I found conflicting information when it comes to the engine in each model.

    Here's my OEM exhaust system:
    front+rear manifolds - each has one (unused) o2 bung - both end with a three-stud flange
    drop pipes that combine into a single catalytic converter, with o2 sensors before/after the cat
    resonator and muffler that weighs a ton

    Similar Vehicles Found
    Here's what matched for body and cyl head, first entry is my vehicle. Using this for searching didn't turn up any more options.

    eng start end model
    M52 1997 1998 Z3 E36, Z3 2.8, Roadster, M52, USA, (CJ33)
    S52 1999 2000 Z3 E36, Z3 M, Coupe, S52, USA, (CM93)
    S52 1998 2000 Z3 E36, Z3 M, Roadster, S52, USA, (CK93)

    So I'm just left trying anything that matches up on the cylinder head.

    Question:
    I'm certain the M52 and S52 heads are the same. Are the exhaust ports the same for these engines?
    * M52TU
    * M50
    * S50

    If these match, I have these options:
    eng start end model
    M52TU 1999 2000 Z3 E36, Z3 2.8, Roadster, M52, USA, (CH33)
    S52 1998 1999 3' E36, M3, Convertible, S52, MANUAL, USA, (BK93)
    S52 1996 1999 3' E36, M3, Coupe, S52, MANUAL, USA, (BG93)
    S52 1997 1998 3' E36, M3, Sedan, S52, MANUAL, USA, (CD93)
    S50 1995 1995 3' E36, M3, Coupe, S50, MANUAL, USA, (BF93)
    M52 1998 1999 3' E36, 323i, Coupe, M52, MANUAL, USA, (BF73)
    M50 1992 1995 325i E36 M50 1992,1993,1994,1995 CB33
    M50 1994 1995 325i E36 M50 1994,1995 BJ53
    M50 1992 1995 325is E36 M50 1992,1993,1994,1995 BF33
    M52 1996 1999 3' E36, 328i, Coupe, M52, MANUAL, USA, (BG13)
    M52 1996 1996 3' E36, 328i, Sedan, M52, MANUAL, USA, (CD13)
    M52 1996 1998 3' E36, 328i, Sedan, M52, MANUAL, USA, (CD33)
    M50 1991 1995 5' E34, 525i, Sedan, M50, MANUAL, USA, (HD53)
    M50 1992 1995 5' E34, 525i, Touring, M50, AUTO, USA, (HJ63)
    M52TU 1999 2000 5' E39, 528i, Sedan, M52, MANUAL, USA, (DM53)
    M52 1997 1998 5' E39, 528i, Sedan, M52, MANUAL, USA, (DD53)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Schreier View Post
    I'm not sure why the SAP would need to be deleted. I mean, it could help installation to get it out of the way, but how on earth would the headers interfere with it? I've got very similar shorty headers on my car, and the SAP is still there (but will be deleting it soon enough).
    Most (almost all!) headers I found did not have the holes/slots for the SAP manifold. You're fortunate to find a set that retains the SAP.

    I'm certain that I will have to delete the SAP. I have a few options.

    My fall-back will be to get the emissions test done in July when it is hot enough that the pump never ever has to run after a reset and driving many cycles. (This is based on my belief that the pump only runs when cold and will only trigger a CEL if it attempts to run)

    Will the Shark tuner delete the SAP? That's my second option.

    Finally, I have the relay and parts on hand to run a SAP simulator.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    30
    My Cars
    1997 BMW Z3 2.8 Roadster
    My eBay header experiences: There are three "classes" of headers each with their pros and cons. I am certain that some of my issues are due to poor quality control.

    First off, some ebay sellers have some stupid compatibility lists. Many of them list both the 4cyl 1.9L and the 6cyl 2.8L in the same auction! Check the return policy. I'm certain that my returns did not cause them to correct their listings.

    Set #1 "cat-in-the-manifold replacement"
    Description:
    The headers are longer than my manifolds and the drop pipe flange has two holes where mine has three. It appears that the two-hole flanges are meant to replace the later model years where each header has a catalytic converter. Each header had two o2 bungs, which is strange considering there is no longer a catalytic converter between them.

    Fit: These have the most potential for being modified to fit because the flanges end up in a very workable position to be mated to the shortened drop pipe. They clear the engine mount. One of the lower bungs comes in contact with the heat shield, which would have to be cut off and welded flush/shut.

    Pictures here

    Set #2 "headers without flanges"
    Description: The headers come with clamps that are reported to leak but are good enough to get the mess to a muffler shop for proper welding. They had one o2 bung each at the collector.

    Fit: These hit the right-hand engine mount when installed. I remove the engine mount to get them into position and could not reinstall the engine mount. The open drop pipe ends weren't well-located for connection to a cut-off drop pipe, but bending it might be possible.

    Pictures here

    Set #3: "shitty shorty headers"
    Description: These look similar to the Turner Motor Sports shorty headers but are of much inferior quality. The tube for cyl6 has a horrible u-turn.

    Fit: The rear is touching the engine block! The stock header had an inch of space there. It kind-of clears the right-hand engine mount if you're okay with it touching. These are unusable on ANY M52/S52 engine. I have no idea if they would work on a different engine. The seller refunded my money without wanting me to ship them back.

    Pictures here

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    30
    My Cars
    1997 BMW Z3 2.8 Roadster
    Quote Originally Posted by Schreier View Post
    I'm not sure why the SAP would need to be deleted. I mean, it could help installation to get it out of the way, but how on earth would the headers interfere with it? I've got very similar shorty headers on my car, and the SAP is still there (but will be deleting it soon enough).
    Most (almost all!) headers I found did not have the holes/slots for the SAP manifold. You're fortunate to find a set that retains the SAP.

    I'm certain that I will have to delete the SAP. I have a few options.

    My fall-back will be to get the emissions test done in July when it is hot enough that the pump never ever has to run after a reset and driving many cycles. (This is based on my belief that the pump only runs when cold and will only trigger a CEL if it attempts to run)

    Will the Shark tuner delete the SAP? That's my second option.

    Finally, I have the relay and parts on hand to run a SAP simulator.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    kansas city
    Posts
    143
    My Cars
    98 Z3, 01 330i, 07 328iT
    Check out the following link. I think it's the simplest path to getting a tune that will eliminate the SAP.

    https://www.kasselperformance.com/pr...ms41-0-tuning/

Similar Threads

  1. Oh no not another ebay headers thread...
    By 92redE36 in forum 1999 - 2006 (E46)
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 10-20-2011, 07:41 PM
  2. sorry, another ebay header thread
    By Tipsy in forum 1992 - 1999 M3 (E36)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-19-2011, 07:54 AM
  3. Another ebay header thread..
    By Tim95M3 in forum 1992 - 1999 M3 (E36)
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 06-19-2008, 02:51 PM
  4. Another EBAY Headers Thread
    By E36ForLife in forum 1991 - 1999 (E36)
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-21-2006, 06:22 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •