Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Elmhurst BMW sold me an X5M with a cracked block.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    2,909
    My Cars
    '09 M5 & '06 X5 4.8is

    Elmhurst BMW sold me an X5M with a cracked block.

    I should preface this by saying I always try my best to give businesses a chance to rectify bad situations before resorting to negative reviews. Unfortunately, I have escalated this situation as far as possible, and have been met with resistance at every turn, so here we are.

    Cliffs notes are at the end for those with short attention spans.

    After months of scouring the internet for the perfect X5M, I purchased an Alpine White on Sakhir Orange 2012 X5M with 45,000 miles on it from Elmhurst BMW in Illinois in June of 2018. I was SO excited about the car, the color combo, the mileage, and the fact that it had one owner and appeared to be so well cared for. I live in Colorado, so I tried to do my due diligence and arrange for a pre-purchase inspection with another BMW specialist, but couldn't find a local shop that could make time in their schedule. I decided to trust Elmhurst that the car was in excellent condition, as they stated. I had another enthusiast friend stop by to take a quick look at the car, but he was only able to do a cosmetic inspection. He said it looked nice, so I decided to go for it. I figured I would just purchase the most comprehensive aftermarket warranty they offered to cover me in the future. I signed the paperwork, and booked a flight for my husband to go pick it up.

    My husband flew to Chicago and took an Uber to the dealership. When he arrived, the interior was still dirty, and had all sorts of white crusty residue in the buttons. He notified Eugene, and Eugene assured him that it had been detailed, but they took it back to do a half-assed touch up. Great. Fine. Whatever. He was on a time crunch, and had to hit the road, so he took it as-is.

    When he got home, I immediately noticed that the "side view camera malfunction" warning came on whenever I tried to activate them. I immediately called my client advisor, Mike, to let him know, and he said they wouldn't be able to do anything about it, but to just wait a month and file a warranty claim. Shady, and I figured the warranty wouldn't cover anything electronic, but whatever. I waited a month, and took my car to my favorite BMW independent shop for its scheduled brake flush and to have the camera looked at. They noted that the oil pan gasket was leaking, a PCV hose was leaking, and the side view camera wiring was damaged and had caused corrosion at the camera itself. All told, over $3000 of work that should have been caught by Elmhurst, but I had a warranty, so whatever. I had the shop submit the claim to Continental Warranty, and everything was denied except for the oil pan gasket (but they refused to cover the one-time-use fasteners, or the alignment that needed to be done in conjunction with the repair). I decided to suck it up and have them get started on the oil pan gasket. I know these warranties have a reputation for nitpicking claims, and I was just happy they were paying for most of it. This is when things went downhill.

    Upon removal of the oil pan, the technician found that the engine block was cracked and needed to be replaced. They immediately called Continental Warranty, and the claim was 100% denied. Continental said that it was "clearly stress cracks due to previous work being done". My car had only ever been serviced at Elmhurst, and according to the service history, had never had any work done in that area, so their hypothesis was absolutely incorrect. I called Elmhurst to tell them what was going on, and Tim Baber said he would call Continental and see what he could do. Tim called me back after the weekend, and said that Continental refused to budge. I asked for a refund on the warranty, and after some back and forth, they agreed to refund me in full. This was the last helpful thing Elmhurst BMW did for me. (Side note: It's been a month and I have yet to receive the refund.)

    The full price of the engine replacement in my car was $26,000. My car cost $36,000. Elmhurst didn't offer me any assistance in contacting BMW of North America, or with the cost of the repairs. I asked them what they suggested I do, and Tim Baber told me to "JB Weld the cracks and sell the car." I pointed out how incredibly unethical that suggestion was. He said, "so trade it in at a place like CarMax." Oh, okay...I'll just pawn it off on someone else, and lose a ton of money in the process. He said, "well, you'd probably lose less trading it in than the engine would cost." He then offered me $28,000 on trade if I wanted to trade in my car for another one of their cars. He apparently forgot that my vehicle was dismantled and I live in Denver, not to mention the fact that I would never, in a million years, want another used car from them.

    I worked as a technician at BMW dealerships in a past life, and fortunately, I still have a number of friends who work for dealerships, and for BMW of North America. I reached out to my friend who works for BMW North America to see if he could help, and he went to work advocating for me to the powers that be. After a few weeks of back and forth, he advised me to tow my car to BMW of Denver Downtown. In the end, he got BMW to goodwill 75% of the repair cost. That left me with a bill of $1,400 to my independent shop and $6,500 owed to BMW of Denver Downtown for the balance of the repair.

    In the midst of this, I emailed Tim Baber, the used car sales manager, and Irv Shenderovsky, the general manager, to let them know how disappointed I was that they made no attempt whatsoever to assist me with this. They seemed perfectly content to sell me a car that needed a $26,000 engine and wash their hands of the situation. If I hadn't had friends at BMW, I would have been on the hook for the full cost of the repair, and they would not have lifted a finger to help me. Irv assured me that they would see what they could do to help, but he sent me one-sentence emails, no updates, and never answered his phone when I called him. He repeatedly asked for documents I had already sent him, and strung me along for over a month. He had their service manager, Korey, contact BMW of North America (the same exact thing I had already done, but weeks after the fact), and came back with the news that BMW wouldn't do anything more for me. BMW dealerships are independently owned, and I didn't expect more from BMWNA - I wanted Elmhurst BMW to take some responsibility. I asked Korey if they would have sold this car knowing the extent of the damage to the engine, and he said no, they would not have sold the car. But they did. They sold it to me. And they weren't sorry.

    I finally got Irv on the phone, and expressed how incredibly upset and disappointed I have been with his handling of the situation. He acted defensive, and insisted over and over again that there was no way they could have known about the damage, totally missing the fact that it doesn't matter whether or not they knew. What matters is how they handled the issue. If they had stepped up to contact BMW on my behalf to address the issue from the beginning, if they had offered to pay for, or even split my out of pocket costs with me just to make it right, I would be raving about their customer service to my friends and family. I wouldn't have hesitated to travel again for another car purchase. Instead, here I am, letting the world know how bad they dropped the ball and how little they care about their clients once they've signed on the dotted line. In the end, after over a month of arguing, he offered me $2500. A pittance compared to the $8,000 this has cost me.

    So at this point, I just want to warn others away from Elmhurst. Go literally anywhere else to buy your BMW.

    Cliffs notes: Elmhurst BMW sold me a car that needed a $26,000 engine replacement and refused to assist me in any way with the repairs.


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Posts
    9,934
    My Cars
    2018 BMW M240i
    As I always do, I recommend a pre-purchase inspection by a reputable indie shop that specializes in bimmers. Try www.bimrs.org. Also, if you’re buying the car that’s out of state I’m betting an indie shop will, perhaps for a fee, pick up the car, inspect it and return it to the seller.

    As for the engine crack, it appears to be in the area of one of the oil pan bolts. Could that have been fixed with some sort of high temperature adhesive, such as aircraft grade epoxy? Just asking.

    We all have to remember that dealers are independent businesses that are merely franchisees of BMW NA. While BMW NA can exert some pressure on a dealer, it can’t, in reality, force a dealer to do anything the dealer doesn’t want to do.

    OP, I’m glad BMW NA stepped up and provided some very nice “good will.” Now, enjoy the car!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    25,402
    My Cars
    F90 M5; E36 M3 Turbo
    I agree that BMW dealership is not the kind of place I would do business with and that its employee is unethical and should be fired, but it’s really higher management that is responsible for his actions.

    That said, a PPI would probably not have found the engine block crack, the most expensive repair. I agree it is a shame you cannot trust a BMW dealer on the condition of the car and have to take it somewhere else for an inspection.

    It also sucks the BMW dealer sells you a warranty that is essentially worthless.

    I can’t think of anything decent about that BMW dealer.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    2,909
    My Cars
    '09 M5 & '06 X5 4.8is
    Quote Originally Posted by MarcoZandrini View Post
    As I always do, I recommend a pre-purchase inspection by a reputable indie shop that specializes in bimmers. Try www.bimrs.org. Also, if you’re buying the car that’s out of state I’m betting an indie shop will, perhaps for a fee, pick up the car, inspect it and return it to the seller.

    As for the engine crack, it appears to be in the area of one of the oil pan bolts. Could that have been fixed with some sort of high temperature adhesive, such as aircraft grade epoxy? Just asking.

    We all have to remember that dealers are independent businesses that are merely franchisees of BMW NA. While BMW NA can exert some pressure on a dealer, it can’t, in reality, force a dealer to do anything the dealer doesn’t want to do.

    OP, I’m glad BMW NA stepped up and provided some very nice “good will.” Now, enjoy the car!
    I agree, I always recommend getting a PPI as well. As I said, I tried to arrange for a pre-purchase inspection, but there were very few BMW specialists in the area, and all of them were booked for weeks out. Additionally, a shop would not have caught the cracks. They were obscured by the pan itself. They may have caught the oil pan gasket leak, but obviously it's too late to do anything about that now.

    The fact that dealers are independent is exactly why I posted this in the first place. BMW isn't going to hold them accountable, so I will.


    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    I agree that BMW dealership is not the kind of place I would do business with and that its employee is unethical and should be fired, but it’s really higher management that is responsible for his actions.

    That said, a PPI would probably not have found the engine block crack, the most expensive repair. I agree it is a shame you cannot trust a BMW dealer on the condition of the car and have to take it somewhere else for an inspection.

    It also sucks the BMW dealer sells you a warranty that is essentially worthless.

    I can’t think of anything decent about that BMW dealer.
    Thanks, you're absolutely right. It is clear to me that Elmhurst BMW needs to be restructured from the top down. They need to take pride in, and stand behind the products that they sell - from their warranties to their vehicles. Pretty much everything about the transaction aside from the initial purchase has been disgraceful to the BMW brand.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Joppa, Md
    Posts
    2,553
    My Cars
    99 M Coupe,04 K1200rs
    If that crack is the only one, I'm amazed a tech would suggest a $26K repair,that crack looks to be inconsequential in the long run.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Ca
    Posts
    6,981
    My Cars
    2001 525it
    With all the structural adhesives and glues putting a stud in there should due the trick, I mean what is the torque valve. Hell jb weld would probably do the job

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Chicagoland area
    Posts
    4,372
    My Cars
    EXOTICS
    That damage did not seem to require a $26,000 engine replacement!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    NW suburban Chicago
    Posts
    16,302
    My Cars
    hiss by my window
    I agree with the comments above. A PPI wouldn't have found this and it looks(from here anyway) rather inconsequential. As a former BMW technician I'd expect you to recognize this.
    I am local to the store you bought from and we are currently planning the succession plan for my wife's car. She has been making noises about a new SUV, BMW of course on the short list. Having had a satisfactory service experience there long ago I would have had no reason not to shop there. I do now.
    The screw the customer mindset of Tim Baber, sadly, seems to still be typical of car salesmen. The few honest one's suffer their reputation because of guys like him.
    I really, really dread car shopping at a dealership. I remember feeling the need to bathe afterwards.
    Last edited by ross1; 11-05-2018 at 10:05 AM.

    If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    2,909
    My Cars
    '09 M5 & '06 X5 4.8is
    Quote Originally Posted by ross1 View Post
    I agree with the comments above. A PPI wouldn't have found this and it looks(from here anyway) rather inconsequential. As a former BMW technician I'd expect you to recognize this.
    I am local to the store you bought from and we are currently planning the succession plan for my wife's car. She has been making noises about a new SUV, BMW of course on the short list. Having had a satisfactory service experience there long ago I would have had no reason not to shop there. I do now.
    The screw the customer mindset of Tim Baber, sadly, seems to still be typical of car salesmen. The few honest one's suffer their reputation because of guys like him.
    I really, really dread car shopping at a dealership. I remember feeling the need to bathe afterwards.
    I had originally taken my car to an indy, and they were not comfortable repairing the cracks. They said if I wanted it done, they'd put the car on the lift and let me do it myself. I spoke with my former regional rep, and he wanted a BMW dealership to look at it. Their tech, foreman, the Colorado regional rep, and service manager all agreed it wasn't repairable, and required an engine replacement. I wish I could have seen them in person first though.

    I realized I never updated any of my threads. Elmhurst ended up getting BMW to pitch in another $2500, so I am still out thousands, but it's $2500 less out of pocket. I did, FINALLY, get an apology from Irv after I blew them up on social media and filed a BBB complaint...so that was obviously a genuine apology. Anyway, I would definitely suggest you search elsewhere for your BMW. I am totally in agreement, it must be so frustrating for those in auto sales who DO genuinely want to help their clients. I felt that way when I was a tech - it makes it so much harder to build trust.

    Best of luck in your car search. Hopefully you have the fantastic experience that we all want to have when buying into a high-end brand.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    38
    My Cars
    2015 BMW 228i coupe
    Did you go to a BMW dealer who sells certified used bimmers. When buying a pre-owned bimmer, you buy the dealer, then the car. Be flexible.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    bartlett, tn.
    Posts
    139
    My Cars
    86 325es/// 95 m3//89 325is custom
    Quote Originally Posted by daveo228i View Post
    Did you go to a BMW dealer who sells certified used bimmers. When buying a pre-owned bimmer, you buy the dealer, then the car. Be flexible.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    Why couldn't someone grind the crack out a little and weld the block, it was caused from a cross threaded bolt obviously. You could of definitely saved that block and not had to replace the entire engine. I bet someone fixed that block and sold the engine after it was pulled out of your car. Isn't the block aluminum?
    S54 powered m3

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    2,909
    My Cars
    '09 M5 & '06 X5 4.8is
    Quote Originally Posted by daveo228i View Post
    Did you go to a BMW dealer who sells certified used bimmers. When buying a pre-owned bimmer, you buy the dealer, then the car. Be flexible.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    I went to Elmhurst BMW. Most BMW dealers don't CPO M cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsim308ons View Post
    Why couldn't someone grind the crack out a little and weld the block, it was caused from a cross threaded bolt obviously. You could of definitely saved that block and not had to replace the entire engine. I bet someone fixed that block and sold the engine after it was pulled out of your car. Isn't the block aluminum?
    It wasn't caused by a cross-threaded bolt, it was a manufacturing defect. No shop would have put their name on a repair of a cracked block. I am a former BMW Master Tech, and built engines for a living prior to that. That would not have been an acceptable repair to me on a car I just purchased.

    It's all water under the bridge though. I sold the car last night. Good riddance.

Similar Threads

  1. Upgraded to 328i at Elmhurst BMW
    By Neuron in forum 2006 - 2012 (E90, E91, E92, E93)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 02-06-2011, 11:19 PM
  2. Cunninghanm BMW sold to SunRoad Automotive
    By Imperialduckm3 in forum California sponsored by Avus Autosport
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-14-2008, 08:59 PM
  3. BMW Sold
    By BMW750il&AudiA6 in forum General BMW and Automotive Discussion sponsored by Intercity Lines
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 12-28-2006, 09:10 AM
  4. BMW sold me a lemon
    By fly325 in forum 1999 - 2006 (E46)
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 11-16-2004, 12:44 PM
  5. Bmw Sold!!!
    By MrDurst in forum Off-Topic
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 06-16-2003, 07:52 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •