The Ultimate Leaking Machine

[StephenVA]

Oil leaks on cars that have a normal operating temp in the 200 degree area. Gee what a unique situation. Gov mandated fuel economy and emissions standards have placed modern cars exactly where they are today. Too much plastic being used? Why? Due to EU mandated recycling % content. Wiring jacketing prone to mice and rats eating it? Old wiring jacketing was not recyclable. But the new stuff is. Mice love it too! Don't like the new model front ends? See EU pedestrian impact standards.
Now to our old and tired E39s, Could they have used better materials for the longer life of gaskets? You bet. But back in 1996/97 the European market had not moved into World sourcing of parts yet so engineering did not look outside the EU for better materials. So with all that useless knowledge my suggestion is to "find a leak? Repair the leak". Simple. Now get back to wrenching on these fun to drive old cars. It is always cheap to buy old high end cars due to the extreme deferred maintenance costs to bring them up to specs.

There are a TON of aftermarket parts on the shelves to resolve all of our issues. Most OE parts last 100K, ok not all but most. Install them and move on to other issues. Like who won the Mega drawing in SC? I didn't

[geargrinder]

That applies to aircraft radial engines as well.

Liquid cooled "V" engines have their "crackle" but there is nothing like the growl of a radial engine. Like a bunch of Harley engines all shouting "potato-potato" as they rumble by...
Anyway, lets get this thread back on track. Lol

Oh no. Lets definitely not. Radial engines make me aroused. I used to work on small private field up in the mountains, got Waco and Stearman rides regularly at end of day from my Instructor buddies. Oh that was the life, motoring up and down the valleys behind a big radial... doing big, slow, spin-recoveries in big ol' radial engined biplanes...

Once riding front-seat on a parts-pickup-run, as we are just pre-approach to another tiny country airport, the Waco pilot decided to mess with me... About the time I'm kinda thinking to myself... "hmmmm... gee we're real close, aren't we a bit high for entering the pattern there?..." he pulls the old gal back and back and back until we're pointed straight up... then over the top... and sure enough we're just motoring through a big ol' slow loop, ending with us right at the right altitude...

[as400jockey]

Plastics...

Here's an example. 2006 E60 525xi, 130k. Thermostat hose. the connector near the oil filter. The hose looked much better than I expected. But not this connector...

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^^^^The engine side - the little stub of pipe section into the engine broke off. It was stuck in the engine. Had to dig it out with a pick. I'm guessing that it's because they forgot a bolt or two on this fitting they nailed about 90 of the 360 degrees... Let's see... 15psi in a hot cooling system... 1 inch diameter... this little thing was pushing back against 10 or 15 lbs for the past 12 years... This was probably the start of the dribble that had been going on for who knows how long.


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^^^^The hose side - note the broken section on the barb. That's where my significant gusher was recently coming from. This plastic fitting is a brittle as an egg shell. Yes, it's 12 years old...

And I agree with an earlier posting about the various regulations causing many of these less than optimal engineering decisions. Every time I rebuild or replace my power equipment carburetors I thank the Feds for mandating ethanol in the gas. I'm pretty sure my Senators don't mow their own lawns... or chop their own firewood.

Now that this one hose is fixed (and also the leaking oil filter cap which I discovered) and after a good engine washing, I'll see how much drier things are for now.

Next I'll order up a complete set of hoses and swap them out next time The Boss is on a business trip. Might be time to replace vacuum hoses, too...

[as400jockey]

100k... coincidentally the mileage of the days when BMW offered "all scheduled maintenance included" .

The All Scheduled Maintenance Schedule:
Every 15,000 miles:
1. Change oil.
2. Top up the washer fluid.

So that's 6 oil changes before 100k. Anything else happens after 100k, and never NEVER change or flush your tranny fluid.

I had a 'spirited conversation' with the local dealership service manager when my wife's E60 525xi with 110k was having transmission troubles. He wanted $14k to replace the transmission and take care of several other things that were falling off, beginning roughly 30 seconds after the warranty ran out.

I took care of the 'several other things' myself and eventually took the car to a local tranny shop that did some great work for me in the past. For $3k they fixed the cause of the problem (what the rest of the world calls a 'solenoid pack'). They also pre-emptively fixed a nice long list of other things that often fail on that tranny.

The car is still going strong.

[JimLev]

Oh no. Lets definitely not. Radial engines make me aroused. I used to work on small private field up in the mountains, got Waco and Stearman rides regularly at end of day from my Instructor buddies. ...

Sorry to hijack your thread.
Stearman's radials are cool. I got to fly in one of them at Plymouth airport a few years ago. There also had a B17 and B24 there, those cost $300 for a short ride.

BiPlane3.jpg

BiPlane6.jpg

BiPlaneRide20.jpg

Plymouth harbor
BiPlaneRide11.jpg

[geargrinder]

100k... coincidentally the mileage of the days when BMW offered "all scheduled maintenance included" .

AS400Jockey really? RPG much these days?

#morethreadjackin

[amancuso]

Sorry to hijack your thread.
Stearman's radials are cool. I got to fly in one of them at Plymouth airport a few years ago. There also had a B17 and B24 there, those cost $300 for a short ride.

BiPlane3.jpg

BiPlane6.jpg

BiPlaneRide20.jpg

Plymouth harbor
BiPlaneRide11.jpg

Awesome!

[as400jockey]

AS400Jockey really? RPG much these days?

#morethreadjackin

Actually, yes. The reports of the death of the AS400 were greatly exaggerated. Over 30 years ago. And remain greatly exaggerated. I have five of them here. Still the best machine ever made, but only those of us that have used one are aware of that.

- - - Updated - - -

Plymouth MA? I may need to take a ride out there and check that out.

[geargrinder]

Actually, yes. The reports of the death of the AS400 were greatly exaggerated. Over 30 years ago. And remain greatly exaggerated. I have five of them here. Still the best machine ever made, but only those of us that have used one are aware of that.

Ha ha... man crazy bad flashbacks. "record indicators! NOOOOO!!!!!!!!" I had a boss from hell BITD when I was an AS400 programmer, she made us completely rewrite big chunks of our core legacy code to use message queues, which architecturally/intellectually was a cool and probably 'good' thing to do... but at the time message queues I think were newish feature and not at all performance optimized so we had performance problems and bugs galore... There wasn't really a "problem being solved" so as far as the rest of the company was concerned, we just made processing double in time and created all kinds of problems and all the "blah blah" about why it would be better going into the future for feature implementation and modularization of functions and long-term maintenability went completely unappreciated.

That job was a nightmare although it gave my career a big kickstart and there were great people at the company... except for my boss... Even she meant well, probably wasn't a terrible person, but at the time she was single with no social life and expected that you ALSO would enjoy hanging around in the office from 8AM to midnight 5-6 days a week because you had nothing better to do... Which my semi-psycho GF at the time did not appreciate too much either so that was really a double whammy of suck.

[eman2007]

liquid cooled "v" engines have their "crackle" but there is nothing like the growl of a radial engine. Like a bunch of harley engines all shouting "potato-potato" as they rumble by...
Anyway, lets get this thread back on track. Lol

lmao

[djb2]

Now to our old and tired E39s, Could they have used better materials for the longer life of gaskets? You bet. But back in 1996/97 the European market was not had not moved into World sourcing of parts yet so engineering did not look outside the EU for better materials. So with all that useless knowledge my suggestion is to "find a leak? Repair the leak". Simple. Now get back to wrenching on these fun to drive old cars. It is always cheap to buy old high end cars due to the extreme deferred maintenance costs to bring them up to specs.

I have to wonder if sourcing plastic resins from Europe is the reason why the Nylon parts of the engine have a short life. The coolant pipes and CCV are notorious weak points, and it's because the Nylon PA 6/6 turns to mush or becomes so brittle that it shatters. If it was by Norma, it's probably bad by now.

You normally expect flexible hoses to be the first failures, but that's not what is happening. I recently cut apart an original upper coolant hose that split at the bleed plug. The flexible hose was in very good condition, with strong fibers and only minor surface degradation. The PA66 end fittings were in poor condition. The interior surface was so bad I couldn't tell coolant deposits from soft plastic. There were minimal coolant deposits on the hose, so it might have been all plastic residue held in place by the glass fiber fill. The obvious weakness extended about half way through the bulk, and the exterior had even changed to a brown color on the thin sections.

[JimLev]

Actually, yes. The reports of the death of the AS400 were greatly exaggerated. Over 30 years ago. And remain greatly exaggerated. I have five of them here. Still the best machine ever made, but only those of us that have used one are aware of that.

- - - Updated - - -

Plymouth MA? I may need to take a ride out there and check that out.

And I was doing punch cards...

Yes Plymouth, MA. It was in conjunction with the B17 & B24 fly ins. I don't know if the Stearman is there all the time.
IIRC these WWII planes might be based in Concord.
I've also done glider and Piper Cub flights from this airport.

B17pic10.jpg

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B24pic1.jpg

[philly98540]

Very cool Jim! I love aviation stuff

[540i"A"Canuck]

Hi Guys:
1st of all, I thought this is a BMW Forum...NOT let talk about Old, Leaky Radial-Engine Bi-Planes!! Actually, I'm just kiddin'; I love Airplanes of all shapes, sizes, military and commercial....old & new!! (When I was a teenager, I thought about applying to the Canadian Military to become a "Fighter Pilot"; but (2) things were wrong with that plan: 1st: I wouldn't be able to pull the "trigger" on my Guns/Missiles, to kill my so-called enemies and 2nd: I suck at math calculations (especially in my head..on the fly); I am more of a "Common-sense", perform skills by "Feel"..Ex: Like operating my Motorcycle(s), which can correlate to flying a Plane..;-) Lets get to the issue or current topic: leaky BMW Engines. I currently own a 2000 BMW 540i"A" E39 Silver with Black Interior with 267,500 km's and I've now owned it for 5 yrs and like other BimmerForum Owners, I can make this statement; (A lot of the Oil leaks, Electrical issues, Gauge Cluster issues, Suspension issues, Brakes..etc, were all items that should have been fixed and/or addressed by previous Owner(s))!! My Leaks: Oil Pan Gaskets, Transmission Pan, Valve Cover Gaskets, Power Steering Reservoir & Box & Hoses, now small Gas Tank leak, Rad Coolant Overflow Tank. I think that covers most of the immediate, noticeable leaks, but does not include all the parts that I have replaced (Next Thread) and parts/maintenance that needs to be done! I too have and I'm in a LOVE/HATE Relationship with this Car...especially since it's my DD...:-/ I'm getting tired of working on it...so I might be pulling the "Plug" on my BMW Ownership...:-( Well, goodluck to all of you who stick-it-out and keep your Bimmer Ride's!!

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

Wait a minute, you’ve owned the car for 5 years..... crunching some numbers, don’t mind me..... you’ve got all those leaks....... crunching more numbers....... the other previous owners should have addressed them long ago, I guess 5 years ago??? Crunching more numbers...... 2 posts since May........ SLACKER! Worse.....
E39 MURDERERERERERRRRRR!!!!!!!

[ross1]

We refer to my wife's 528 as the Valdez.
To be fair it is approaching a quarter million miles but it has been dripping for most of them.
It's about reached critical mass coolant wise, I suspect from those %^*$%*plastic pipes again. Did them before, not enthused about going another round but at twenty bones a gallon and about to have a new driveway I'll have to dig in.
Give me some good old rubber hoses and screw clamps any day.

[ross1]

Sorry to hijack your thread.
Stearman's radials are cool. I got to fly in one of them at Plymouth airport a few years ago. There also had a B17 and B24 there, those cost $300 for a short ride.

Collings Foundation?

I flew aboard their Liberator when it was liveried as "Dragon and it's Tail". My heart was with the B-17 as dad was part of the mighty eighth in WWII but at the time this Lib was the only flying example left in the world.
If you think that Stearman's radial sounded good you need to hang out of the waist gun doors into the prop wash of two twin wasps! Highly recommended.
Did you get any stick time in the Stearman?

[JimLev]

Yes, Collins Foundation.
No stick time in the Steerman but I've flown a few gliders, a hang glider, Piper Cub, and our company plane, a King Air (turboprop) from San Jose to Columbia, CA. I didn't take it off or land it, probably a good thing.

[as400jockey]

Some More leaking..

The power steering reservoir on my 2001 E39. Those inadequate pinch clamps - they work great at the factory on a nice supple hose. The hoses are stiffening, so those clamps aren't really clamping any more, they're just kind of... resting there. The hose connections at the reservoir were slowly dripping over time, which was messy... and it was on my list, but I had the car up in the air to attempt to lube the u joint on the lower steering link. Turn the wheel end to end... forced PS fluid to gush out. What a mess. But at least that's ALL it was. I thought it was one of the high pressure hoses. The drip happened to land on top of one of the high pressure lines, so it looked like that was shot.

Two screw clamps later and doing much better until I get around to changing all the PS hoses.

WAAAAAAAY MORE LEAKING

My son was in his 2003 E39 last night... highway... suddenly burning oil smell... trailing smoke like a skywriter. But at least it was 3 degrees F... Looks like (I hope) the valve cover gasket. Sprayed quarts of oil, mostly onto the exhaust system. Seems like the car went into limp mode (I HOPE that's what it was), and he got to a parking lot OK. The patient is now in my eeeeeeeeeeevil laboratory.....

I'm wondering if the lousy plastic is also a problem for the plastic valve cover... my wife's E60 has a nice sturdy ALUMINUM valve cover...

[djb2]

Cold weather pressurized crankcase... that suggests a CCV system condensation clog.

The crimp bands used on the steering hoses are supposed to have a wider spring range than other types, especially worm gear types. It doesn't seem to work, since steering hoses have leaked since the e30 days. The cheap-looking formed wire and simple band spring clamps on Toyota vehicles seem to work much better at retaining pressure as the hose material compresses.

[AusE39er]

Only fluids I'm not leaking are fuel and coolant.

VC gasket is leaking again I think. Probably more that the VC itself isn't in good condition though. It's mating surface was pretty rough when I was in there last. And I had dropped it on concrete too, lol.

Recently found an oil leak on those 2 oil hoses that sit on the lower RHS portion of the radiator (under the PS lines).

And last is the high pressure line for the power steering. Especially lame as that part is damn expensive (and another unique RHD market part).

That all said I enjoy doing something, anything on my E39 most weekends. Just a nice car to clean and work on.

[geargrinder]

Probably more that the VC itself isn't in good condition though. It's mating surface was pretty rough when I was in there last. And I had dropped it on concrete too, lol.

Uh-oh. Those M54 plastic VC's are notorious for cracking. That's prob what you got going on after the dropsies.

You can swap the M56 metal cover over but it requires some other work to implement because amongst other things you delete the CCV which means also swapping the dickstick tube and some other stuff. There's some coil related issue too I think, you might need to change coils and add a ground strap or something. Look around, somebody here did it on an E39, although most of them are on E46's. Of course you'd have to try to find an M56 valve cover, I'm sure you didn't get those down 'straylya.
I might know where there's an M56 motor lying around but it runs mint low miles so I doubt if they want to sell off the VC.

[ross1]

Ahh, bitching about old cars with hundreds of thousands of mile on them.
In the midst of a comprehensive leak correction service on our elderly E39 right now myself. It's carted my ass around for 245k miles now, it's entitled to do some dripping.
None of these leaks started until well into it's second decade and years after clicking over the sixth digit on the odomater. It would be far less mess and work had I done something about it sooner. Neglect is as much at fault as how stuff was engineered.
You think these old heaps leak? Try driving an old car with cork gaskets and rope crank seals.

[Twistytee]

Lol. I drive one of those around too...thankfully I replaced the rope seal with a viton. But it still likes to mark its territory in the garage.

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

Haha! My old MGB’s and Mini Coopers all had cork gaskets, the MG’s developed leaks more often than the Coopers. Those British engineers always wanted to keep you dripping.... Lucas electronics, that’s another story in how to produce a real sh!tty product.
So.... now I have a couple of these R53 Cooper S’s, 2003’s, wouldn’t you know it? They both have the same identical oil leak, just started. The green one had it before the winter kicked in, I drove the grey one to work yesterday, it’s got the same exact leak on the same spot on the ground. Wasn’t happening last week....

I had picked up that $500 Silver 525 wagon with 370,000 miles from Poolman, took a little bit of cleaning up, water was in both rear floors, yep, the vapor barriers, as usual. He had done the M56 valve cover swap. There was a slight oil leak out of the dipstick tube, bad o-ring, no more leaks now. Car runs like a top! I’ll check out the coils when I have more time.
Not a bad deal for a $500 car at all!! Suspensions a bit way too stiff, stupid Bilstein HD’s, on the highway it’s awesome, but sucks in the city. He did sport springs, all new arms throughout, front and rear, subframe bushings all done, lol, all I’ve done was fix the vapor barriers, shampooed the carpet, cleaned the car, added the cute little chrome rings to the gauges, fixed the brittle headlight switch mounts to the cluster bezel, awesome deal,