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Thread: The Ultimate Leaking Machine

  1. #1
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    The Ultimate Leaking Machine

    Don't get me wrong... I love the three BMWs in my family - a 2006 E60 525xi; a 2003 E39 530i; a 2001 E39 530i... They certainly give me ample opportunity to practice my hobby...

    But there are more than a few things that drive me crazy.

    With all of BMW's exhortations of the Ultimate Driving Machine, etc, and their long-running habit of over-engineering things, I am sorely disappointed with the many things that seem to be inadequate or under-engineered.

    First, I like my E39's better because they actually have DIPSTICKS. My first experience checking the oil on the E60 took... uh... a while to read the book and figure out how to spin the dial and get the oil level. I'm not opposed to the electronic thing, but LEAVE THE DIPSTICK ANYWAY. I am 100% certain that I can check your oil level in 30 seconds if you give me a dipstick. You can keep your spinny dial button joystick thing. How many accidents have occurred from people trying to figure THAT thing out?

    Now... on to the leaking.

    I think we all know that these things leak. A lot. From lots of places. And lots of different fluids. Pretty much all of of them. Amongst my examples, here is the list off the top of my head:

    1. Radiator tanks. Two of the three had to have their radiators replaced due to cracked plastic tanks. You'll notice in this list the word 'plastic' appears a bunch of times.
    2. Radiator bleed screws. The heads shear off very easily, because it's made of, you guessed it, PLASTIC. Two for three on this one. I understand that they don't need to be tightened much, but it's pretty likely that somewhere along the line, someone torqued it a bit too much. And when they break on the road you're in trouble. I replaced mine with nice aftermarket BRONZE models.
    3. Tinkertoy radiator hose connections. Very clever. Works great at the factory, as long as everything is nice and clean and round and smooth and unpolluted by residue. Fast assembly. Over time the seals harden and they leak if you bump them. Sometimes difficult to impossible to remove due to warping or swelling in the PLASTIC, such as the radiator connections on the aforementioned lousy PLASTIC tanks.
    4. PLASTIC thermostat hose connection. Cracked but good, on the road. Dumped coolant. Car dead. Easy fix, but never should have happened in the first place. Could have KILLED THE ENGINE.
    5. PLASTIC coolant level stick. Broke off. Not like it's under a whole lotta stress. It's job is to just sit there and bob up and down when I unscrew the cap. But alas, the inadequate PLASTIC failed, and the stick broke off in the reservoir. Can't just replace the stick... gotta go with the entire reservoir. Again, easy fix, but never should have happened.


    Mid-rant side track...

    What's with this plastic? Seems it can't stand the heat under the hood and/or the chemistry of the coolant. While reading up on the radiator issues I've been having, I found a discussion what coolant to use, and one guy posted that every time his radiator fails, he replaces the coolant with genuine BMW coolant. Could there be a correlation between their coolant chemistry and these repeated plastic failures?

    But enough about coolant. Let's move on to OIL.

    Most BMWs outside of the dealer warranty look like this picture from Pelican's web site:



    That pan under the engine? It's not for air flow... it's to catch all the OIL and COOLANT that's gushing out of your engine. You don't see a stain on your driveway because the puddles are forced out onto the road when you drive.


    1. Power steering reservoir. What's up with THAT? For HOW MANY YEARS has that reservoir cap been leaking, and NO ONE came up with a solution to get it to stop?
    2. Oil filter housing. I replaced the seal between the oil filter housing and the head a couple times How the heck does it fail in the first place? It's sealed in there at the factory... oh, but there's COOLANT swimming around in there... hmmmm a correlation?
    3. Valve cover gasket. Groan.
    4. Oil pan gasket. HUGE GROAN. I bought the gasket, but really don't want to drop the subframe to install it. Good thing the pan under the engine keeps my driveway clean.
    5. Main crank seal(s). Groan. Maybe someday.
    6. The PCV system... The line from the top of the head to the oil trap. Made of... PLASTIC. Split in two. The line that runs along the top of the intake manifold. Plastic. Snapped like a twig. The line from the bottom of the oil trap to the dipstick (aka the 'return line')... plastic cracked and snapped.


    Mein Gott, vot a mess, jah?

    Other leaks of note...

    The windshield washer reservoir... the o-ring around the pump. The lines - hard plastic... gets brittle. Splits.

    Doors - water ends up in the carpet when it rains due to the plastic that is glued to the door frame under the inside panels...

    So that picture of the underside of the engine. That looks EXACTLY like ALL THREE of my 5's. I contrast that with the four Volvos in the family fleet - 97 850 wagon closing in on 300k, 98 S70 nearing 300k. 98 S70 rounding 200k, 01 v70 nearing 200k, 02 S60 at 180k... not a drop of any of the above.

    I like driving the bimmers better, but don't understand why six volvos are bone dry and three bimmers are a coolant/oil/washerfluid soaked mess.

    Hence my new tag line - The Ultimate Leaking Machine.

    Looking forward to more reports of other leaks I should be looking for.

    Carry on!

  2. #2
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    Door panel vapor barrier and sun roof water leaks.


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  3. #3
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    I hear ya...but I just accept my known leaking points, replace everything that leaks every 100k and move on. my e39 drives better than anything else that costs $2k, and I enjoy working on them.

    I'll add leaking Heater pipes and the oil level sensor at the bottom of the oil pan
    Last edited by effduration; 10-22-2018 at 08:33 PM.

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    BMW's leak, doesn't bother me. My own 540it doesn't really leak anything, and leaky BMW's pay my bills so keep on leaking!
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  6. #6
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    Don’t know how to keep these things maintained? Stop whining, jump ship, go get a Honda or something boring like that...
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by effduration View Post
    ... my e39 drives better than anything else that costs $2k, and I enjoy working on them.
    I agree 100%... that must be why I got that $50,000 car for a 97% discount off MSRP... but good thing I do this stuff myself, and have a spare car to wait for delivery of parts.

  8. #8
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    Yeah these cars are pretty awesome. Can you imagine how unbelievably awesome they would be if they didn’t have all of these issues, just think about it.
    The sad part is that people act like, because they are so awesome we have to put up with all this crap. It’s the only car that I have ever owned that needs cardboard under it, all the time!
    For me it’s a love hate relationship. How can a car that I like so much make me so mad? Cause BMW, that’s why.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmrMeUpSnotty View Post
    Don’t know how to keep these things maintained? Stop whining, jump ship, go get a Honda or something boring like that...
    Ah, a good point. But actually I do know how to keep these things maintained. I do it all myself... including wheel bearings, entire suspensions front and rear... removed exhaust manifolds just to get the frozen O2 sensor out... failed ABS controllers... failed airbag controllers... radiators..

    Started with a $2500 car from a 'donate your car' reseller... put probably $3500 in parts so far. So more than it's worth, but I do love the car.

    As to the Honda... Another good call. As it happens I even have one of those - a 2005 Odyssey (the Man Van) that I bought from Felix Unger. that one does have a rear crank seal leak, but not bad... Kids are out of the house, but I keep the van... All my friends give me crap about having a van... until they want to borrow it.

  10. #10
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    Leak

    Upper Oil Pan (1).jpg

    Tha'ts not a Leak, this is a leak from my 1991 850 Upper Oil Pan Gasket

  11. #11
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
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    LOL. Funny thread/rant. THUMZUP.

    But really, an I6 aint' got nothin on leaks to a V8 typically. We got double the cylinder heads to leak, crazy valley pans and crossover pipes and crap. I mean, I feel your pain, I ain't arguin witchu. Just feel better that you don't have a V8.

    But. I'd also say (as somebody above said)... if you get ahead and stay ahead on maintenance... you can keep 'em dry. Just don't expect to drive it like a Toyota or Honda where you can put 90k miles on it, do nothing but change the oil rarely, pop the hood and have the motor just be covered in dry dust cuz nobody's ever had to do nuthin to it. You gotta keep your eye on it and fix crap when it goes, not after its left 1/2" of oil sludge on all the lower bits and crannies of the motor...
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iforgetalot View Post
    Yeah these cars are pretty awesome. Can you imagine how unbelievably awesome they would be if they didn’t have all of these issues, just think about it.
    The sad part is that people act like, because they are so awesome we have to put up with all this crap. It’s the only car that I have ever owned that needs cardboard under it, all the time!
    For me it’s a love hate relationship. How can a car that I like so much make me so mad? Cause BMW, that’s why.
    Think of it this way, if they had zero issues and were 100% reliable then they wouldn’t be as cheap to buy. The only reason I can roll around in BMW’s is because they’re really cheap on the used market... if people wanted real money for them I wouldn’t be into them.
    1995 525i 5-speed - Thread

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    I've got mine to be dry for many years. Evans Coolant and powdered coated VC's got me there.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by as400jockey View Post
    Don't get me wrong... I love the three BMWs in my family - a 2006 E60 525xi; a 2003 E39 530i; a 2001 E39 530i... They certainly give me ample opportunity to practice my hobby...

    But there are more than a few things that drive me crazy.

    With all of BMW's exhortations of the Ultimate Driving Machine, etc, and their long-running habit of over-engineering things, I am sorely disappointed with the many things that seem to be inadequate or under-engineered.

    First, I like my E39's better because they actually have DIPSTICKS. My first experience checking the oil on the E60 took... uh... a while to read the book and figure out how to spin the dial and get the oil level. I'm not opposed to the electronic thing, but LEAVE THE DIPSTICK ANYWAY. I am 100% certain that I can check your oil level in 30 seconds if you give me a dipstick. You can keep your spinny dial button joystick thing. How many accidents have occurred from people trying to figure THAT thing out?

    Now... on to the leaking.

    I think we all know that these things leak. A lot. From lots of places. And lots of different fluids. Pretty much all of of them. Amongst my examples, here is the list off the top of my head:

    1. Radiator tanks. Two of the three had to have their radiators replaced due to cracked plastic tanks. You'll notice in this list the word 'plastic' appears a bunch of times.
    2. Radiator bleed screws. The heads shear off very easily, because it's made of, you guessed it, PLASTIC. Two for three on this one. I understand that they don't need to be tightened much, but it's pretty likely that somewhere along the line, someone torqued it a bit too much. And when they break on the road you're in trouble. I replaced mine with nice aftermarket BRONZE models.
    3. Tinkertoy radiator hose connections. Very clever. Works great at the factory, as long as everything is nice and clean and round and smooth and unpolluted by residue. Fast assembly. Over time the seals harden and they leak if you bump them. Sometimes difficult to impossible to remove due to warping or swelling in the PLASTIC, such as the radiator connections on the aforementioned lousy PLASTIC tanks.
    4. PLASTIC thermostat hose connection. Cracked but good, on the road. Dumped coolant. Car dead. Easy fix, but never should have happened in the first place. Could have KILLED THE ENGINE.
    5. PLASTIC coolant level stick. Broke off. Not like it's under a whole lotta stress. It's job is to just sit there and bob up and down when I unscrew the cap. But alas, the inadequate PLASTIC failed, and the stick broke off in the reservoir. Can't just replace the stick... gotta go with the entire reservoir. Again, easy fix, but never should have happened.


    Mid-rant side track...

    What's with this plastic? Seems it can't stand the heat under the hood and/or the chemistry of the coolant. While reading up on the radiator issues I've been having, I found a discussion what coolant to use, and one guy posted that every time his radiator fails, he replaces the coolant with genuine BMW coolant. Could there be a correlation between their coolant chemistry and these repeated plastic failures?

    But enough about coolant. Let's move on to OIL.

    Most BMWs outside of the dealer warranty look like this picture from Pelican's web site:



    That pan under the engine? It's not for air flow... it's to catch all the OIL and COOLANT that's gushing out of your engine. You don't see a stain on your driveway because the puddles are forced out onto the road when you drive.


    1. Power steering reservoir. What's up with THAT? For HOW MANY YEARS has that reservoir cap been leaking, and NO ONE came up with a solution to get it to stop?
    2. Oil filter housing. I replaced the seal between the oil filter housing and the head a couple times How the heck does it fail in the first place? It's sealed in there at the factory... oh, but there's COOLANT swimming around in there... hmmmm a correlation?
    3. Valve cover gasket. Groan.
    4. Oil pan gasket. HUGE GROAN. I bought the gasket, but really don't want to drop the subframe to install it. Good thing the pan under the engine keeps my driveway clean.
    5. Main crank seal(s). Groan. Maybe someday.
    6. The PCV system... The line from the top of the head to the oil trap. Made of... PLASTIC. Split in two. The line that runs along the top of the intake manifold. Plastic. Snapped like a twig. The line from the bottom of the oil trap to the dipstick (aka the 'return line')... plastic cracked and snapped.


    Mein Gott, vot a mess, jah?

    Other leaks of note...

    The windshield washer reservoir... the o-ring around the pump. The lines - hard plastic... gets brittle. Splits.

    Doors - water ends up in the carpet when it rains due to the plastic that is glued to the door frame under the inside panels...

    So that picture of the underside of the engine. That looks EXACTLY like ALL THREE of my 5's. I contrast that with the four Volvos in the family fleet - 97 850 wagon closing in on 300k, 98 S70 nearing 300k. 98 S70 rounding 200k, 01 v70 nearing 200k, 02 S60 at 180k... not a drop of any of the above.

    I like driving the bimmers better, but don't understand why six volvos are bone dry and three bimmers are a coolant/oil/washerfluid soaked mess.

    Hence my new tag line - The Ultimate Leaking Machine.

    Looking forward to more reports of other leaks I should be looking for.

    Carry on!
    +1 on the ultimate leaky machine lol


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  15. #15
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    You’re preaching to the choir. Maintain the cars and they won’t leak. Mine don’t.... right now, and when they do, I fix them. Stop ranting, start wrenching.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmrMeUpSnotty View Post
    You’re preaching to the choir. Maintain the cars and they won’t leak. Mine don’t.... right now, and when they do, I fix them. Stop ranting, start wrenching.
    +1 to that.

    My 525iT has 202,286 miles on it, and well I probably should not say anything, but i have had only 1 leak and that was the oil filter housing to block and that was a quick change. replaced that 40,000 miles ago and no other leaks.

    Doing routine maint on these cars before the coolant pump, hoses etc leak is by far the best route.
    2003 525iT Automatic, Topas Blue Exterior, Gray Leather Interior, Sports Suspension, Sports Seats, M 3 spoke Steering Wheel.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmrMeUpSnotty View Post
    You’re preaching to the choir. Maintain the cars and they won’t leak. Mine don’t.... right now, and when they do, I fix them. Stop ranting, start wrenching.
    +1. At 217,000mi, the only leaks I have right now are very slow seeping from the rear diff seals. Of course, in the past 10,000 miles, I've repaired an oil pan gasket leak, power steering leaks, and transmission leaks. However, none of those leaks were critical, and all of them were deferred maintenance by the previous owner.
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  18. #18
    JimLev's Avatar
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    And if it ain't leaking it, it's burning it. Another example of over engineering.....
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  19. #19
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    - I understand the O.P.'s points.

    - BMW can still make fun cars to drive while keeping maintenance low.

    - What makes the car fun to drive:
    1. The engine.
    2. The transmission.
    3. The weight balance.
    4. The suspension.
    5. The aerodynamics.
    etc. BMW does a very good job with these aspects.

    - Maintenance:
    1. Gaskets can be made from better material so instead of leaking at 80K, they can leak at 200K.
    Mind you though, Honda and Toyota engines leak at 80K-100K too.
    2. Simplify the design: radiator hose does not have to be quick-disconnect. Many BMWs in the past had simple radiator hoses and clamps and the machine ran nice!
    3. Yes, plastic saves weight and fuel consumption, but there are places where plastic should not be used at all:
    Thermostat housing (how many grams do you save by using plastic)....many years ago, BMW tstat housing was aluminum.
    Ditto for water pump pulley: it used to be aluminum, now plastic.

    In the quest for fuel efficiency, BMW pushed plastic to the limit!
    Not a problem from factory, but it is a problem at 80K-100K+...

  20. #20
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLev View Post
    And if it ain't leaking it, it's burning it. Another example of over engineering.....
    https://bimmerlife.com/2018/10/20/bm...tm_name=member
    Whats the old British car joke? Something like if it ain't leakin', its empty?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JimLev View Post
    And if it ain't leaking it, it's burning it. Another example of over engineering.....
    https://bimmerlife.com/2018/10/20/bm...tm_name=member
    BTW that is VERY similar to a problem VW/Audi had w/ the 2.0T's years back - same one in my wife's car.

    They would unbelievably deny it was a problem, would 'test consumption' by draining and measuring oil left in the car after a change, and then tell people hey well you know, a quart every 1000 mis is 'normal'...

    Answer all along was that the PCV system was complicated and poorly engineered and was sucking oil through... they redesigned the part a few times but it never really worked so you're just left with either using some special oil like we do that seems to mitigate it a bit, or, going to some $ aftermarket catch can setup...
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Whats the old British car joke? Something like if it ain't leakin', its empty?
    That applies to aircraft radial engines as well.
    I do not believe in a risk free society where the thrill of living is traded for the safety of existence. Nick Ienatsch

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimLev View Post
    And if it ain't leaking it, it's burning it. Another example of over engineering.....
    https://bimmerlife.com/2018/10/20/bm...tm_name=member
    Wow, thanks for the link, my 2013 X5 50i has oil consumption issue, I have to top off a quarter of oil roughly every couple of thousand miles.

  23. #23
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    That’s a twin turbo, 50i, perfectly normal oil consumption, they’re all doing it. Even my buddy’s 2015 750li, same thing. I checked with my buddies at J&F, a well known local BMW Indy shop out here in Arlington, they say so too.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santaclaus4 View Post
    That applies to aircraft radial engines as well.
    This is true.... when sitting on the ground. But they seal up a bit when running. I have a buddy with an Abatross, those big twin radial seaplanes, he’s got it out at the Warrenton airport, about 50 miles from here, sitting out on the tarmac, drain pans with drain lines into 55 gallon drums, lol.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmrMeUpSnotty View Post
    I have a buddy with an Abatross, those big twin radial seaplanes,
    Liquid cooled "V" engines have their "crackle" but there is nothing like the growl of a radial engine. Like a bunch of Harley engines all shouting "potato-potato" as they rumble by...
    Anyway, lets get this thread back on track. Lol
    I do not believe in a risk free society where the thrill of living is traded for the safety of existence. Nick Ienatsch

    The law does NOT determine "right" from "wrong". They are unrelated.

    If you put cheap parts on your car, you will soon have a cheap parts car.

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