Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 29

Thread: Help with codes P0393 P0021 P0102

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Lakeville MA
    Posts
    19
    My Cars
    '03 X5; '04 545i; '11 X5

    Help with codes P0393 P0021 P0102 [FIXED]

    Recently bought this 2004 545i auto with 120k on it. The car idles rough, no weird noise at all and it revs smooth after 3k.
    So far I have removed the exhaust camshaft sensor, replaced with another one from my X5 and two more that I got from a junk yard. Cleared codes with INPA as well all adaptions. Didn't help. Then I checked wire connector and I have tracked/pinpoint to the DME and the signal is fine.
    So right now I really don't know what else I can do.
    I have attached some pictures from INPA with data from the camshafts.

    20181008_174742.jpg

    20181014_195727.jpg
    Last edited by davidisurf; 12-25-2019 at 09:05 PM. Reason: Fixed

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Lakeville MA
    Posts
    19
    My Cars
    '03 X5; '04 545i; '11 X5
    Bump

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Coquitlam, BC, Canada
    Posts
    226
    My Cars
    2003 530i
    Sorry to see no one has replied and you're still having trouble. You have codes for each bank A and B camshaft timing and airflow meter. Throwing parts at it isn't working.

    Do the airflow meter and camshaft sensors share a common wiring harness? Airflow meters are easy to test out. Check for voltage, ground and continuity of signal wire between the plug and DME. Look up the wiring on newTIS and go from there...

    Sent from my LG-H915 using Tapatalk


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Lakeville MA
    Posts
    19
    My Cars
    '03 X5; '04 545i; '11 X5
    Sorry for disappearing, but it got to cold and I really hate the cold and as I don't have a garage, I left this project for a while but finally is getting better again and today I decided to get my hands dirty again.


    Following ISTA+ recommendations, I removed both VANOS solenoids(bank 2) for cleaning and boy, the screens were all clogged with debris of gasket sealant(see images attached) . So I'm pretty sure the VCG was replaced at some point. So after cleaning and test with 12V, everythings looked fine but no luck putting them back bc the car still the same. So the last thing I did was removed all plugs from the vanos solenoid on both banks and the car is running fine now, not perfect, but it is really good. Any ideas?
    1. Can I discard a chain/timming problem as the car runs smoothly anywhere above 3k revs? (with vanos solenoids PLUGGED)
    2. With the 4 vanos solenoids UNPLUGGED the car runs smooth. So again, can I discard a chain/timing problem?
    3. Founding debris of silicone/gasket sealant tells me that the cover was replaced. So maybe the car is running rough bc an incorrect valvetronic adjustment??
    IMG-20190324-WA0000.jpg

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    .
    Posts
    7,708
    My Cars
    .
    Could be bad VANOS adjustment units, could be the engine is out of time.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
    ASE and BMW Master Certified Technician

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Lakeville MA
    Posts
    19
    My Cars
    '03 X5; '04 545i; '11 X5
    Quote Originally Posted by White94RX View Post
    Could be bad VANOS adjustment units, could be the engine is out of time.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
    Unplugging the solenoids connectors the car runs fine, do you still think it could be the engine out of time??

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    .
    Posts
    7,708
    My Cars
    .
    Yes, very well could be. With the solenoids unplugged, the cams just lock in position. And engine will run even if it's a few degrees out. But still have problems when the variable timing comes into play. It's definitely something I would check before wasting any more time.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
    ASE and BMW Master Certified Technician

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Lakeville MA
    Posts
    19
    My Cars
    '03 X5; '04 545i; '11 X5
    Quote Originally Posted by White94RX View Post
    Yes, very well could be. With the solenoids unplugged, the cams just lock in position. And engine will run even if it's a few degrees out. But still have problems when the variable timing comes into play. It's definitely something I would check before wasting any more time.


    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

    So is there a way to check the timing without opening the valve cover?
    Same for the Vanos unit. I have INPA, ISTA/D. Anything I can do to test?


    Btw, here's some live data from last night
    20190325_202459.jpg20190325_202454.jpg20190325_202448.jpg20190325_202436.jpg20190325_202431.jpg

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Lakeville MA
    Posts
    19
    My Cars
    '03 X5; '04 545i; '11 X5

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    .
    Posts
    7,708
    My Cars
    .
    No. Valve covers must come off.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
    ASE and BMW Master Certified Technician

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    DE, USA
    Posts
    1,044
    My Cars
    '15 435i,'10 535i,'08 X5
    Does ISTA have a VANOS test like DIS does?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Lakeville MA
    Posts
    19
    My Cars
    '03 X5; '04 545i; '11 X5
    Quote Originally Posted by pshovest View Post
    Does ISTA have a VANOS test like DIS does?
    At least I know for the e46 m3 because I found this video. I spent over an hour messing with ISTA but couldn't find for my 545i
    https://youtu.be/O8JMZJKPUyk

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    DE, USA
    Posts
    1,044
    My Cars
    '15 435i,'10 535i,'08 X5
    Thanks. Now I know where to look.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Lakeville MA
    Posts
    19
    My Cars
    '03 X5; '04 545i; '11 X5
    Quote Originally Posted by White94RX View Post
    No. Valve covers must come off.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
    So today I got my timing tool kit and opened my cover to check my timing. I have bad and good news.

    The good (not that good) news is that it was out of timing and I followed all the instructions from TIS and checked with another tutorial and the timing is good again

    The bad news is that it got worse. It's running a little more rough than before. The P0021 and P0393 are gone and now I have P0392, however with INPA the bmw code still the same 27C0. P0102 still there too (2783 with INPA)

    Checking the camshaft adaption now the input bank 2 came from ~160 to around 120 which is good. But the output still 100% frozen at 69.50, it doesn't move like the rest

    Now I really don't know what to do. I'm sure the timing is correct now, is almost impossible with the tool setting up an incorrect timing. I checked over 3 times to make sure before closing everything back.

    I swapped the camshaft sensor one more time and no luck, as well resetting all adaptations and running a RAM backup didn't help. Although might be just a coincidence, but I can fell the engine starting up a little better for a second after a RAM backup, but then gets bad again in the next second

    20190402_212256.jpg
    Last edited by davidisurf; 04-02-2019 at 09:41 PM.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    .
    Posts
    7,708
    My Cars
    .
    Did you check timing on both sides? or just one side?

    And when you post the code numbers, write out the BMW fault code description with it. The numbers don't mean anything to me.
    Last edited by White94RX; 04-04-2019 at 08:28 AM.
    ASE and BMW Master Certified Technician

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Lakeville MA
    Posts
    19
    My Cars
    '03 X5; '04 545i; '11 X5
    Quote Originally Posted by White94RX View Post
    Did you check timing on both sides? or just one side?

    And when you post the code numbers, write out the BMW fault code description with it. The numbers don't mean anything to me.
    I checked on both sides, I followed the TIS step by step. I opened all again and will re-check and update in here.

    20190402_215717.jpg20190404_123343.jpg20190402_160856.jpg20190402_160849.jpg

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Lakeville MA
    Posts
    19
    My Cars
    '03 X5; '04 545i; '11 X5
    I'm only working on bank 2 for now

    So here's some pictures and what I have done
    1 locked in fire position.
    2 checked the intake and tool sits with no gap
    3 checked exhaust and tool sits with no gap
    4 removed the lock pin
    5 cranked engine 2 full turns
    6 inserted pin back to lock in fire position
    7 checked intake and exhaust with tools one more time and no gaps

    So is there any other step that should be done?
    Maybe the eccentric shaft didn't sit properly, although I used ista+ to relearn the limits

    20190404_184552.jpg20190404_184156.jpg20190404_184231.jpg

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Lakeville MA
    Posts
    19
    My Cars
    '03 X5; '04 545i; '11 X5
    I'm sorry, first I said I did both sides, but actually only the left side.

    So here's some pictures and what I have done
    1 locked in fire position.
    2 checked the intake and tool sits with no gap
    3 checked exhaust and tool sits with no gap
    4 removed the lock pin
    5 cranked engine 2 full turns
    6 inserted pin back to lock in fire position
    7 checked intake and exhaust with tools one more time and no gaps

    So is there any other step that should be done?
    Maybe the eccentric shaft didn't sit properly, although I used ista+ to relearn the limits

    20190404_184552.jpg20190404_184156.jpg20190404_184231.jpg

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    .
    Posts
    7,708
    My Cars
    .
    You've only checked timing on one bank. You need to check both banks. And like I said before, give BMW specific faults WITH THE DESCRIPTIONS. The numbers by themselves don't mean anything to me.
    ASE and BMW Master Certified Technician

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Lakeville MA
    Posts
    19
    My Cars
    '03 X5; '04 545i; '11 X5
    Quote Originally Posted by White94RX View Post
    You've only checked timing on one bank. You need to check both banks. And like I said before, give BMW specific faults WITH THE DESCRIPTIONS. The numbers by themselves don't mean anything to me.
    Do you mean the code with descriptions in Ista+?

    So I just checked bank 1 and everything looks good in there too, the only thing is I kind can feel the chain a little bit loose compared to bank 2 which is pretty tight. Not much, but I can feel a difference.

    Just clarifying, I checked timing on both sides, 2 full turns, re-check timing and everything matches.

    Also following directions on the TIS I checked if the camshafts adjustment units were locked and looking fine here too.

    Should I do anything else while I have the covers off? Should I put it back together and give it another try?
    Last edited by davidisurf; 04-08-2019 at 05:53 AM.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Lakeville MA
    Posts
    19
    My Cars
    '03 X5; '04 545i; '11 X5
    So here's an update of my situation.

    I checked both banks and timing is good, I swapped everything while putting the valve cover back like eccentric shaft and sensor, intake and exhaust camshafts.
    After checking the timing for first time I had code P0392 Camshaft Position Sensor B Circuit LOW Input Bank 2. Putting the valve cover back after checking both banks I have the same code as the beginning which is code P0393 Camshaft Position Sensor B Circuit HIGH Input Bank 2. Also code P0102 Mass or Volume Air Flow Circuit Low Input.
    I checked the camshaft sensor wiring from the connector to DME looking for opens or short but all looks good.
    I'm really lost, even thinking about a bad DME which I know is rare.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Lakeville MA
    Posts
    19
    My Cars
    '03 X5; '04 545i; '11 X5
    White94RX I was looking some more information about the IVM and I saw a few threads with similar issue that I have and actually I found a post that you mentioned about a bad IVM, although crank, camshaft Injectors and maybe more things goes bad together is there a chance to be my case too? Maybe a bad IVM?

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    .
    Posts
    7,708
    My Cars
    .
    That's possible. Sorry it's hard to diagnose cars over the internet.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
    ASE and BMW Master Certified Technician

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Lakeville MA
    Posts
    19
    My Cars
    '03 X5; '04 545i; '11 X5
    Quote Originally Posted by White94RX View Post
    That's possible. Sorry it's hard to diagnose cars over the internet.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
    I can imagine and I really appreciate what you do. I see you all over the forum helping others.

    Just don't give up on me yet 😭

    Does anything else cross your mind?

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Lakeville MA
    Posts
    19
    My Cars
    '03 X5; '04 545i; '11 X5
    Tell me what you think about this. I swapped camshafts sensor today, not between banks but the intake to exhaust and of course the exhaust to intake. As you know the intake sensor has a pigtail attached to it and the exhaust sensor has a normal plug connector.

    Remember that the exhaust camshaft sensor is the one throwing a code. So after the swap the exhaust sensor is reading the tone ring (reluctor, sprocket, whatever u want to call) but now the intake sensor won't read the exhaust tone ring.

    So my interpretation is that both sensors are fine, however theres something wrong on the exhaust side. For some reason the sensors can't read the exhaust tone ring. I tried the sensor with and without o-ring and nothing. I know it plastic but maybe the cover somehow is bent and the sensor is far enough so it won't read?
    Maybe something is blocking the cover to sit properly on that far corner where the exhaust camshaft goes and again, leaving sensor and the tone ring somehow far apart of each other?
    Am I crazy or is that plausible?
    20190411_214640.jpg
    Last edited by davidisurf; 04-11-2019 at 09:50 PM.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Help...my code won't turn my radio back on!
    By bbg325is in forum 1992 - 1999 M3 (E36)
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 06-22-2003, 07:34 PM
  2. Help...my code won't turn my radio back on!
    By bbg325is in forum 1991 - 1999 (E36)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 06-20-2003, 11:07 AM
  3. HELP!! - sony code
    By Reno in forum Car Audio & Electronics sponsored by Bavsound
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-08-2003, 07:01 AM
  4. Help! Error code E9
    By lagvoid in forum 1992 - 1999 M3 (E36)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-22-2002, 10:23 PM
  5. Help: Engine Codes for Chk Eng Lght
    By Ry328is in forum 1991 - 1999 (E36)
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 08-01-2001, 09:20 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •