M60 Intake Manifold vs M62TU Manifold.

[Mannyf540]

Most definitely. Although it has been a subjective matter...
Have you had your Vanos done? And a tune to match. So you make the most use of the additional air volume afforded. But if your Vanos has not been serviced recently, it may take a while for your car to gain momentum. You also want the tune to match.

From experience it would take a while for the car to gain speed before I serviced the Vanos, I had lost the lower end power range.

Upon servicing the Vanos it has once again recovered its lower end torque.

So it depends on your setup and recent service history... your mileage may vary!

[purplecty]

Most definitely. Although it has been a subjective matter...
Have you had your Vanos done? And a tune to match. So you make the most use of the additional air volume afforded. But if your Vanos has not been serviced recently, it may take a while for your car to gain momentum. You also want the tune to match.

From experience it would take a while for the car to gain speed before I serviced the Vanos, I had lost the lower end power range.

Upon servicing the Vanos it has once again recovered its lower end torque.

So it depends on your setup and recent service history... your mileage may vary!

Guides and vanos were rebuilt 35k miles ago or so. No tune. stock m62tu...

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[Mannyf540]

Then for sure I’d do it!! Especially since your Vanos has been serviced. Thereafter I’d get a larger housing for your mass air along with a larger the throttle body. The mass air housing you can find on eBay, no need to waste your cash on the Dinan one.

Hopefully someone can chime in where they obtained the larger mass air housing. The throttle body would have to be sourced from Dinan. I don’t know of anyone that makes a larger throttle body other than Dinan. You may also consider the cold air intake, although the OEM set up is adequate to do the job, and you don’t run the risk of water entering your intake, although it’s never been an issue for me. And last but not least get a tune, our local forum member DUMD tuning does a great tume for this setup. I’d had purchased with him if I knew he did them prior to my purchase with AA. He maybe able to shed so light where to source the larger mass air housing.

And perhaps down the line some headers, Super Sprints or our mod Jim get some great headers for a decent price, perhaps he’d be so kind to chime in as well.

[purplecty]

I have thoughts of the 4inch MAF housing and the 84 inch N62TU TB which is actually the DINAN TB...
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F263159692833

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...s-m62tu-engine

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[JimLev]

I bought long tube headers from Schmiedermann, they were actually made in Italy. Will need to look up the actual manufacture. I have the M62 non tu manifold.
There was a thread a while ago about using a throttle body from a newer bimmer which required the connector to be changer, an easy job.
I got a good deal from the BMW dealer on a Dinan carbon fiber CAI, their larger throttle body, and stage 5 tune. Got a Dinan MAF from a member here.

Just saw your post purplecty, that's the TB.

[nasco]

So It's been decided, Early M60 manifold, 84mm Throttle Body, 4" MAF Housing, my existing Dinan CAI and some sort of headers. I'll do a before after, after and after with three stages. It'll take a while to get it collected but I figure it's not super time sensitive, anytime will do.

Before (Stock with the Cold Air). After will be M62TU Manifold, 4" MAF Housing, 84mm throttle body, and the existing CAI. After #2 Will be M60 Manifold. After #3 will be Headers because I've never seen 540 dyno's for a header swap either.

I supposedly had my Vanos completely re-done when the Timing Chain Guides were done, but the invoice was written in a really shady way so it doesn't mean Jack to me. I was also eye-balling those Schmiedmann headers myself because I've seen really good dyno numbers from them on the M5. Also Planning on getting an X-Pipe in there and running quad tips (I run a muffler Delete it should fit perfectly) after I get my M-Tech Rear Bumper of course.

[JimLev]

I had the Schmiedermann headers ceramic coated inside and out. IIRC the headers were $1200 and the ceramic coating was about $350.
These are more difficult to install as the subframe needs to be lowered and the engine jacked up.
Supersprints are individual tubes that plug into the collector, easier install but 2x+ the price.

Header_28.JPG

These aren't plug and play, if you don't weld you'll need to get a shop to make the connection to the main CAT's. The pre-CAT's won't be used. I don't get any codes.
Header33.JPG

[nasco]

The welding for the collectors part doesn't sound like that big of a hassle. My neighbor welds and he'll also be the one doing the welding for my X-Pipe.

Dumb question but potentially smart answer.

Wouldn't it be better to buy the schmiedmann headers, cut through them at like maybe 5-6 inches before the collectors and then add V-Band clamps or even just re-weld them once the individual tubes are attached to the engine block? Easier install than the regular schmiedmann and basically the same cost too.

[JimLev]

Not sure I understand your question.
Are you asking about shortening the collectors? You don't want to do that, it will effect the header performance, see below.
All my welded was done after I installed the headers.
I don't think you'd want to cut the individual tubes, sounds like a PITA job with not much room to re-weld the tubes together.

HeaderInfo2.JPG

One other thing, you'll need a reducer (cone) to connect the collector to the exhaust pipe.

Header34.JPG

When you cut the pipe just before the main CAT you'll find out it's a double wall pipe.
I used a torch and tail pipe expander to open up the inner pipe to match the ID of the outer pipe.
It's stainless so you need heat to soften the metal. After getting it expanded I used a ball peen hammer to finish making the ID completely round.
I did this with the exhaust system on the garage floor.

DSCN0623.JPG

Header_20.JPG

One last thing.
If you make HARD right hand turns the engine is going to move a little bit which is normal.
One of the pipes will make contact with the steering column flex joint.
You have 2 options, put some washers under the drivers side motor mount to slightly raise the engine or put a small dent in the header tube which won't effect anything.

Header40.jpg

[geargrinder]

Ha ha I forgot all about dimpling the runners...

nasco the “Jedders” I.e the headers made by M5Jed as “best of all prior headers” design, have the independent runner setup. They are gorgeous sexy. Think he uses double-layer slipfit? Think vbands per runner would suck for fit and be a hassle to impossible to connect in the tight space.

[nasco]

GG and JIMLEV, That makes a bit more sense now that I think about it. $1300 for Italian made headers also doesn't sound like an awful price to pay considering the amount of power that ends up opening up.

Do Either of you have videos of your exhaust setup with the headers? I currently am running a full stock exhaust and have deleted the muffler and replaced the Y-Res with a cherry bomb. I'm quite satisfied with the tone currently when the car is not running at full heatsoak(this is when it starts getting screechy). I want to keep the volume where its at (with valves of course) and get a slightly deeper tone and wonder if this is the way to do it. Also, if this is the case, I may end up having my neighbor replicate these headers with titanium and create a full titanium exhaust for me. I think that would be an exciting first to the forum.

[JimLev]

I'm sure I have a video, just need to find it and post it. I'll see if I can do it tonight after the Sox beat the Dodgers or tomorrow the latest.
Jedders headers are very nice, think they are $4-5K, someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Titanium system would be fabulous buy very expensive.

[JimLev]

Still looking for a video.
I did find this audio file of me driving around the hood with open headers just after I got everything put back together.
Might be just a bit to loud to pass inspection but the music is intoxicating.
Couldn't directly attach an MP3 file so it's on OneDrive. Might take a few sec to load. Turn up the volume.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!ApkTIzHhyMd5pDYIlO1x_qZY3Vnn

[nasco]

Is that Open Headers but with those SuperSprint ones? If so, I'm sold and I'm determined to get those on asap.

[JimLev]

No, they are the ones I bought from Schmeidermann, like I said in post 32.

[nasco]

the ones I bought from Schmeidermann

Soon I'll be able to say this and I'm really looking forward to it. How much does it add according to ye old butt dyno?

[R Shaffner]

Still looking for a video.
I did find this audio file of me driving around the hood with open headers just after I got everything put back together.
Might be just a bit to loud to pass inspection but the music is intoxicating.
Couldn't directly attach an MP3 file so it's on OneDrive. Might take a few sec to load. Turn up the volume.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!ApkTIzHhyMd5pDYIlO1x_qZY3Vnn

What a great sound!

Forgive me for being slow to realize this, but our V8's really do sound different from American V8's, don't they? When we're at a stoplight with the windows open, we can tell when a good 'ole less-muffled American V8 pulls up beside us. The sound is unmistakable. Not the same when a BMW or Audi V8 pulls up. (Don't think I've ever heard a loud Mercedes V8.)

Our V8's don't have that rumble at idle. That's fine with me. The sound on Jim's file is perfect to my ears.

It must be the different firing order. V engines typically have uneven firing internals anyway (unlike inline and flat engines). And our cars have a different firing order than American V8's (most if not all, I believe). On ours, the firing of the cylinders doesn't alternate between the left and right banks every time. 2 cylinders on each bank fire consecutively.

And of course, thanks to our ability to speak, our ears are hard-wired to notice little things like that. Like our favorite music, or the sound of loved one's voices -- some sounds we can always identify.

Please excuse me now while I go out for a hard drive...