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Thread: 1996 e36 328i died @ 50MPH w/ transmission light, no OBDII / INPA; now crank no start

  1. #1
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    1996 e36 328i died @ 50MPH w/ transmission light, no OBDII / INPA; now crank no start

    Greetings,

    I'm stumped with this one. I was on the freeway this last Thursday morning traveling about 50MPH when the transmission light (the gear w/ the exclamation point) came on and the motor suddenly died. I coasted to a safe stop on the side of the road. The transmission light stayed on and it was crank-no-start from there so I had it towed home. The car has ~145,000 miles and had been running fine. I replaced the battery within the last 3 months so it cranks hard, just doesn't start.

    This morning I hooked up the OBDII reader to grab a code...and couldn't get anything. I confirmed the code reader works by testing it with two other vehicles so I know the reader is operating correctly. I hooked up INPA, but it couldn't connect or read anything either.

    Within the past three months I had also replaced relay #2 (the main relay for the car) which I saw on the forums can get "sticky" with age and lead to intermittent problems. I had an extra (brand new) relay for relay #2 and tried swapping that in as well with no change to the INPA/OBDII response.

    After searching the forums, I double-checked that I hadn't tried to read OBDII with the "pac-man" INPA connector cap off which apparently causes problems with OBDII. Still can't read anything w/ OBDII.

    The forums also suggested I check all the fuses: they are good.

    I tried disconnecting the battery for 5 min and connecting it back up. No luck.

    More history: when I bought the car 5000 miles ago, it wasn't running and I replaced the fuel pump and fuel pump relay to get it on the road again. After purchase I also replaced the spark plugs. So I don't think spark and fuel are the reasons it won't start again: likely some electrical issue since the transmission light is on _and_ I can't read any codes off it.

    Also, the forum posts I see about the transmission light being on make me think that if it really was a transmission problem it should still start...

    Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I would greatly appreciate any pointers.

  2. #2
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    If you hook up a known working INPA that can be used on an E36 and Cannot read the body control module (nothing to do with the engine) you clearly have wide sweeping power issues or data bus issues.


    If that is the case messing about with code readers it like flicking the light switch in your house when it's midnight and not a single light is on in the street.
    Last edited by E36328Coupe; 10-14-2018 at 09:38 AM.
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  3. #3
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    Does the check engine light illuminate as part of startup routine?


    Did you actually check for +12V and ground at the dme with a multimeter?


    There is an additional fuse, called a fusible link, near the battery in the trunk. Did you check that?
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  4. #4
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 328 Power 04 View Post
    Does the check engine light illuminate as part of startup routine?


    Did you actually check for +12V and ground at the dme with a multimeter?


    There is an additional fuse, called a fusible link, near the battery in the trunk. Did you check that?
    No check engine light as part of startup.

    I read shogun's post below and followed the link to verify that pin 14 on data link connector does in fact show 12V w/ a multimeter w/ the ground connected to the chassis.

    Further, I used a multimeter and verified that on the DME connector between pins 4 and 26 I see 12V.

    Looks like a dead DME, which after looking at the wiring diagram would make sense as to why the transmission error light is on: the transmission is controlled through the DME.

    Any additional thoughts?

  6. #6
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    Pin 49 also needs to have +12V. Engine light not coming on means that the dme is not booting up.

    These DMEs do not die except for very obvious shorts, so I would investigate a little more before buying a replacement.
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  7. #7
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    Learn how to bench test the relays, the new one you got may simply be a dud. All you need is a 12v source to power up the relay (I use a cheap wall wart), so you energize the coil then with a multimeter (coil inside relay still energized) you measure the resistance across the switch terminals. You should get less than 2 ohms. I've seen experienced people do the "click test" and think a relay was good, I then tested it properly and showed it was defective.
    Attn. NEWBIES: Use the search feature, 98% has already been discussed.
    Click the search button, select "search single content type", select the "e36 sub forum" specifically, try the "search titles" then try the "search entire posts".

  8. #8
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    All that is great but reading the ZKE if he has a working diag setup proves a lot and takes 5 mins
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  9. #9
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    Thanks everyone for the pointers.

    @328 Power 04: I tested w/ key in ignition and saw 12V to ground w/ my multimeter on pin #49 on the DME harness, so I believe the DME is getting the correct power.

    @Eric93se: I actually bought 3 of those relays a few months back and used one to replace relay #2, so I tried out the other 2 brand new Bosch relays in position #2 (the main DME power relay) w/ no change in behavior: the "check engine" light still fails to illuminate along w/ all the other alert lights when I first put in the key. I'd be shocked if 3 brand new Bosch relays were all bad (especially since one had been working for a couple months w/o any issue).

    A friend suggested I take a look at the resistance of my coil packs, as one or more may have failed. I checked packs 1 and 2 tonight and they look fine. I'll hopefully have time and daylight to check the others tomorrow.

    I also opened the DME thinking there may be failed electrolytic capacitors on the circuit board, but didn't see any.

    So at this point I believe that:

    * Fusable link is OK
    * Main power relay is OK
    * Power is getting to the DME

    Any other thoughts w/ this updated info?
    Last edited by SJC E36; 10-16-2018 at 11:48 PM.

  10. #10
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    Hmm, if you are sure of your diagnosis, then I would throw a used DME in there to see if you get a check engine light to come back up.

    If that works out, syncing ews is super easy, you don't have to disable ews or anything.
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  11. #11
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    Turns out I do have a spare DME. I plugged it in, but no luck: still no CEL illumination w/ all the other warning lights when I initially turn the key in the ignition.

    Back to the Bentley wiring diagram.

  12. #12
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    What does happen when you turn the key to position 1, 2 and 3?

  13. #13
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    Might be an EWS issue. Might have to do a re-alignment. Its called EWSSync
    Attn. NEWBIES: Use the search feature, 98% has already been discussed.
    Click the search button, select "search single content type", select the "e36 sub forum" specifically, try the "search titles" then try the "search entire posts".

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by E36328Coupe View Post
    If you hook up a known working INPA that can be used on an E36 and Cannot read the body control module (nothing to do with the engine) you clearly have wide sweeping power issues or data bus issues.


    If that is the case messing about with code readers it like flicking the light switch in your house when it's midnight and not a single light is on in the street.
    Quote Originally Posted by E36328Coupe View Post
    All that is great but reading the ZKE if he has a working diag setup proves a lot and takes 5 mins
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric93se View Post
    Might be an EWS issue. Might have to do a re-alignment. Its called EWS Sync
    Could well be true. However, if the op can truly not connect to anything either his known good INPA does not work or there is a sweeping electrical failure and he's looking at the wrong stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  15. #15
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    @E36328Coupe: a neighbor of mine also has a 328iC. I'm going to see if she will let me try my IPNA setup on her car to verify correct operation.

    @ultimatetester: I'll get back w/ this info in the next day or so.

  16. #16
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    @E36328Coupe (and @ultimatetester): Looks like INPA is working. I was able to view some of the "Body" items this afternoon, but I'm unable to successfully access anything under

    * Engine
    * Transmission
    * Chassis

    I saved and then cleared the error codes from the "Body -> On board computer BC5" menu and then tried cranking again (note: The CEL [check engine light] still won't light up when I put the key to position 2, the transmission error light stays lit, and I can tell the fuel pump isn't pressurizing the fuel system so I know the car won't start...I'm just trying to get it to throw codes again to hopefully tell what is new and what is old).

    Also, I noticed something strange: INPA would only show "Battery: on" when I had the key in position 1. If the key was out, in positions 0 or 2, INPA would show "Battery: off". I never could get it to show the "Ignition: on" indicator.

    I'll post the error code dumps from INPA here shortly.


  17. #17
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    Wow, getting this report onto the forums took some doing. I can't tell if these are recent errors, or not. I cleared them but they didn't come back. I'm just getting started on trying to get info about them. Any pointers?

    ERROR MEMORY REPORT
    Date: 1M1118 17:03:20
    ECU: ZKE4
    JobStatus: OKAY
    Variant: ZKE4
    RESULT: 14 errors in error memory!

    11
    FT: Aggregate or open circuit

    Error frequency • 28
    Sporadic error
    ----------------------
    13 BT: Aggregate or Open circuit
    Error frequency : 28
    Sporadic error
    -----------------------
    15 HK: Aggregate or Open circuit
    Error frequency • 28
    Sporadic error
    --
    --------------------

    2 Fuse Central locking system
    Error frequency : 4
    Sporadic error
    ·-------------
    56 GM IV: Relay sticking Signal MFFZ to ground
    Error frequency 1
    Sporadic error
    -------------------------

    60 GM IV: Relay sticking Signal MFBZ to ground
    Error frequency : 1
    Sporadic error
    -----------
    3 Fuse Power window front
    Error frequency:3
    Sporadic Error
    --------------

    62 Thermo switch FH FT active or Motor Pulse generator
    Error frequency : 1
    Sporadic error
    --------------------------

    28 RM IV or Cable RFFHZ Open circuit or Short circuit to ground
    Error frequency : 3
    Sporadic error
    --------------------------

    30 RM IV or Cable RFBHZ Open circuit or Short circuit to ground
    Error frequency : 3
    Sporadic error
    --------------------------
    24 RM IV or Cable RFFHA Open circuit or Short circuit to ground
    Error frequency : 3
    Sporadic error
    --------------------------
    26 RM IV or Cable RFBHA Open circuit or Short circuit to ground

    Error frequency : 3
    Sporadic error
    --------------------------
    4 Cable Clamp R Is missing
    Error frequency : 1
    Sporadic error
    --------------------------
    55
    GM IV: Relay sticking Signal MFFA to battery +

    Error frequency : 1
    Sporadic error
    -------------------------------------------------------------

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJC E36 View Post
    Greetings,

    I'm stumped with this one. I was on the freeway this last Thursday morning traveling about 50MPH when the transmission light (the gear w/ the exclamation point) came on and the motor suddenly died. I coasted to a safe stop on the side of the road. .
    A bad throttle position sensor can and has done exactly this and produces the gear with exclamation mark symble. But you not being able to restart the engine after a minute or two suggests another problem. You may also have two problems at the same time. Infrequent but it does happen.

    Unplug the tps and see if anything changes. If it doesn't, suggest you leave it unplugged and treat this as a standard no-start issue from hereon and troubleshoot accordingly.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJC E36 View Post
    (note: The CEL [check engine light] still won't light up when I put the key to position 2, the transmission error light stays lit,
    Does the CEL work on a cluster test? You can invoke cluster test from drivers seat (see you tube) or INPA but only if you have an ADS interface.

    Then if CEL works but dme not driving it you have narrowed your choices.

    Now, I had a cluster failure and put an auto dash in my manual and the cog symbol was permanently on until I recoded the dash

    So if you cannot connect to DME and Auto trans ECUs no CEL and permanent cog would say to me neither are powered.


    For no reason at all what happens if you remove and unplug the OBC? If the code system is wired in a defective or unpowered OBC stops a vehicle starting HOWEVER, it does not stop code reading or trans so actually probably ignore that.

    I think you need to look at the ETM and see what lives you should have at DME and trans and what is common to both and could fail or jumper them.
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  20. #20
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    Quick update as I have limited time this week. I ran the instrument cluster test on Sunday and noticed the CEL didn't come on at all during any of the tests.

    Not sure what that means: I'd love to know if people have ideas/suggestions.

    Thanks for all the help so far.

  21. #21
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    It means your dme is not powering up.
    If you are absolutely sure it is getting power, then I would investigate other causes, even the very unusual failed dme.
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  22. #22
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    Have you checked the bulb for the CEL and made sure its not just burnt out? I always start simple.

    Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

  23. #23
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    Make sure you have the correct relay box diagram for your year, I found mine was wrong. Use the link below to shoguns post, open the link on a PC so that you can navigate to the beginning to find your year and find the relay box diagram.

    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...ight=Relay+etm
    Attn. NEWBIES: Use the search feature, 98% has already been discussed.
    Click the search button, select "search single content type", select the "e36 sub forum" specifically, try the "search titles" then try the "search entire posts".

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by 328 Power 04 View Post
    It means your dme is not powering up.
    If you are absolutely sure it is getting power, then I would investigate other causes, even the very unusual failed dme.
    It also could mean his throttle position sensor is dead. Same gear symbol on the dash.

    Op your dme is probably fine. It is unlikely to be the problem when you can crank (you have ews2 remember) and when you can actually read codes. You also don't appear to have a dme code (there is one).

    The cel issue is a red herring. Your bulb is burned out or something equally simplistic.

    Treat this as a standard no start with crank. Test your cps. Fuel pump relay. Fuel pump. Check for spark. Make sure your chambers are not flooded with fuel. etc Do what is more probable first.
    Last edited by alang1990; 10-25-2018 at 09:13 AM.

  25. #25
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    For info: Drive Away Protection System (EWS) -Model: EWS I/EWS II/EWS III/EWS III D - E31/E34/E36/E38/E39/E46/E52/E53 Production Date: All since 1/94
    Objectives
    After completion of this module you should be able to:
    • Explain the differences in the EWS systems.
    • List the components that make up the different EWS systems.
    • Describe the operation of each system.
    • Understand and relate the data exchange sequence between the EWS and DME.

    https://www.europeantransmissions.co...0EWS%20BMW.pdf
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