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Thread: 2003 530i Won't Rev Past 3,500rpm in 5th gear 'manual' mode

  1. #1
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    Angry 2003 530i Won't Rev Past 3,500rpm in 5th gear 'manual' mode

    2003 530i Automatic w/ sport package. No check engine lights / trans fail safe prog. on the dash.

    So today I was driving like an hour on the highway to Wisconsin to get some parts for my car and on the way back I noticed something very odd. Most of the way I was driving it in the manual mode and had it in 5th gear so that it wouldn't downshift too much when I went like 1/2 throttle or more to pass or something. Then I noticed when accelerating that it felt like it was shifting or something anyways around 80 mph or so. Then I noticed that it would rev normally but once it got to 3,500 rpm it would like either stop revving completely or rev extremely slowly. If I push the shifter back over to regular drive it would rev perfectly fine.

    Any ideas as to why this is happening? I got a code for torque converter clutch - too much slip... My Dad said that his 2003 525i felt very similar when his torque converter died, but his was much more catastrophic and left him dripping fluid on the highway.

    I really hope that my torque converter isn't dead, it will rev all the way to redline without issue in 1-4 in both drive & 'manual' mode.

    I forgot to add; the fuel pump is probably original to the car so it could maybe be that, but also the fuel filter has been changed like a month ago or so.

    And before it did the thing where it wouldn't rev past 3.5k it would feel like it was downshifting / upshifting type of feeling when I would go below or over ~80mph but it was in manual mode & the cluster said I was in 5th gear the whole time so could that have been the torque converter or what? I think this is called shuddering?

    And about a few days ago my car (automatic) stalled itself in reverse with almost / close to full steering lock? It started back up fine and happened ONCE on my Dad's 525i like a year ago prior to his torque converter problem. Is this a related thing?
    Last edited by 1823alex; 10-13-2018 at 04:11 PM.
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    I've been told my torque converter may be going bad, and that it is likely also gonna cause a transmission issue too and best to get new TC & auto trans. My parts guy has the autos for $600 or a manual swap kit w/ everything you need for $1,000.

    I've been wanting my 530i to be manual for awhile now so I think I'm gonna go with the manual swap, I know the topic has been beaten to death about auto -> manual swaps, but I haven't seen many guides on how to do it for an inline 6, I've mainly seen ones for the 540i.

    Can anybody link me some good guides for the inline 6? Is the trans the same for the 525i & 530i?
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    Update: I pulled codes AGAIN with BMW scanner 1.4.0 and got a new code for low cat. efficiency on bank 2 only. I didn't get any SES light today at all & the torque converter clutch slip code I cleared the other night came back of course :/

    Is it likely to just be a o2 sensor? If it is, would it be post cat or pre cat? I'm guessing post cat because the pre cat ones have definitely been replaced but I'm not sure if the post cat ones have been replaced.
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    manual 525 sedan has a Getrag box

    manual 530 sedan has a ZF box

    manual 528i sedan has a ZF box

    manual 525/528 Touring has a ZF box

    I suggest opting for the ZF which your car would have came with from the factory as a manual. You'll need the differential, driveshaft, trans, pedal assembly, master/slave cylinder, clutch lines, and a flywheel/clutch kit from a donor car.
    Last edited by WBAD530i; 10-15-2018 at 01:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1823alex View Post
    Can anybody link me some good guides for the inline 6? Is the trans the same for the 525i & 530i?
    Sorry Alex only just saw this. There aren't a ton of straight up I6 Man swap threads, the best ones are the "530 6-speed" threads by Blackknight530i and Stuck. Stuck isn't around anymore really but Paul/Blackknight is, and he knows this stuff inside out.

    Long story shorted, basically the I6 is pretty easy compared to V8. Don't have to reflash the ECU (yay!) cuz it "auto adjusts" based on whether it sees a transmission controller or not on boot-up. The wiring is a little simpler too, there's still the pedal wiring and a cluster wire but not the auto-start-rewire that facelift V8's require. You still need minor recoding to the cluster (and maybe the ABS/DSC?) but its not a big deal.

    The trickiest bit is probably figuring out which driveshaft you need based on what tranny you choose to use, then its just punching out the knock-outs in the chassis and doing the install of the hardware...
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    That's a signs of restriction on catalytic convert. It will get worse and worse over time and you will eventually get P0300 codes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WBAD530i View Post
    manual 525 sedan has a Getrag box

    manual 530 sedan has a ZF box

    manual 528i sedan has a ZF box

    manual 525/528 Touring has a ZF box

    I suggest opting for the ZF which your car would have came with from the factory as a manual. You'll need the differential, driveshaft, trans, pedal assembly, master/slave cylinder, clutch lines, and a flywheel/clutch kit from a donor car.
    Yea, my parts guy has all the stuff I'll need for $1,000. He told me the master cylinder is the same. He said I won't need the diff but I know for a fact I'll at least need the diff flange off of the 2.93 manual differential so that I can keep the 3.46 diff ratio.

    Should I really go with the ZF trans though? Since it's a manual swap there's no coding for the specific manual transmission I decide to use as long as it fits mechanically speaking. So should I go with the ZF or GeTrag? Isn't the Getrag one really highly regarded.

    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Sorry Alex only just saw this. There aren't a ton of straight up I6 Man swap threads, the best ones are the "530 6-speed" threads by Blackknight530i and Stuck. Stuck isn't around anymore really but Paul/Blackknight is, and he knows this stuff inside out.

    Long story shorted, basically the I6 is pretty easy compared to V8. Don't have to reflash the ECU (yay!) cuz it "auto adjusts" based on whether it sees a transmission controller or not on boot-up. The wiring is a little simpler too, there's still the pedal wiring and a cluster wire but not the auto-start-rewire that facelift V8's require. You still need minor recoding to the cluster (and maybe the ABS/DSC?) but its not a big deal.

    The trickiest bit is probably figuring out which driveshaft you need based on what tranny you choose to use, then its just punching out the knock-outs in the chassis and doing the install of the hardware...
    I'll for sure take a look at the threads you mentioned.

    Is the cluster wire the one for the reverse lights? If possible can you send me a link to the location / wiring info on that? I don't think any ABS / DSC coding is necessary but for sure the manual trans coding for the EWS and I think either the DME or IKE.

    For the driveshaft, my parts guy is going to give me the one that goes with the trans but I won't have the differential so I gotta find a flange off the manual 2.93 diff to swap onto my auto 3.46 diff.

    Quote Originally Posted by BMtroulbewe View Post
    That's a signs of restriction on catalytic convert. It will get worse and worse over time and you will eventually get P0300 codes.
    Is it possible it's just a bad o2 sensor though? Considering it's only on bank 2? No SES light from it, yet.
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    The getrag 6 speed in the 540/m5 is, yes. The ZF in the e39 is the same ZF used in the e36 M3. I would think theres a reason the ZF was used from the factory in the 530 so thats why i would stick with it. It is apparently more robust than the getrag 5 speed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WBAD530i View Post
    The getrag 6 speed in the 540/m5 is, yes. The ZF in the e39 is the same ZF used in the e36 M3. I would think theres a reason the ZF was used from the factory in the 530 so thats why i would stick with it. It is apparently more robust than the getrag 5 speed.

    Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk
    Okay, I'll have to find out for sure which transmission my parts guy is gonna sell me.
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    My parts guy has the Getrag from a 525i, I think I want to wait and get the right ZF transmission for my car. Does anybody have any opinions on which is better & the differences between them?
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    BMW Getrags seek to tend to not feel as good as the ZF'S , generally the ZFs are solid. I can't speak to all the variants but I wouldn't balk at either maker for a daily swap. If you're doing a turbo big power build ok maybe you need to avoid the low torque versions but short of that... Whatever comes your way and seems clean and tight would work I think. Do you want to try to go 6sp? If so that's a different subset. Stuck did a ZHP 6sp IIRC.
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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    BMW Getrags seek to tend to not feel as good as the ZF'S , generally the ZFs are solid. I can't speak to all the variants but I wouldn't balk at either maker for a daily swap. If you're doing a turbo big power build ok maybe you need to avoid the low torque versions but short of that... Whatever comes your way and seems clean and tight would work I think. Do you want to try to go 6sp? If so that's a different subset. Stuck did a ZHP 6sp IIRC.
    6spd would be much harder would it not? Needs a different bell housing put onto it and more 'custom' work perse, right? I've never done a swap before so going for a 6spd as my first might be pushing it lol.

    Do you happen to have the P/N for the differential flange for the manual 2.93 diff? I'm planning to swap the flange from that to my 3.46 diff but my parts guy doesn't have the differential

    I think it's #8 for the auto here: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=24_1897 & then #27 for the manual one here: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=23_1396 - please let me know if that's right.

    EDIT: And no I won't be turboing it anytime soon haha.
    Last edited by 1823alex; 10-16-2018 at 06:04 PM.
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    Bump / Anybody know anyone selling a ZF trans from a 530i with other parts necessary for the conversion?

    I'm located in Northwestern IL so Indiana, Wisconsin and maybe Iowa or Missouri could work.

    Or if anyone knows anybody selling a manual E39 for cheap with a manual trans that I could use as a donor car.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1823alex View Post
    6spd would be much harder would it not? Needs a different bell housing put onto it and more 'custom' work perse, right? I've never done a swap before so going for a 6spd as my first might be pushing it lol.

    Do you happen to have the P/N for the differential flange for the manual 2.93 diff? I'm planning to swap the flange from that to my 3.46 diff but my parts guy doesn't have the differential

    I think it's #8 for the auto here: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=24_1897 & then #27 for the manual one here: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=23_1396 - please let me know if that's right.

    EDIT: And no I won't be turboing it anytime soon haha.
    Bell housing is the same as long as you get the transmission from the right car.

    E46 M3 transmission is relatively plug and play. ZF 6-speed (E46 330i, m54 Z4 3.0i, m54 e60 530i) is less plug and play, though IMO the better transmission.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TerraPhantm View Post
    Bell housing is the same as long as you get the transmission from the right car.

    E46 M3 transmission is relatively plug and play. ZF 6-speed (E46 330i, m54 Z4 3.0i, m54 e60 530i) is less plug and play, though IMO the better transmission.
    Yeah, if I recall correctly from Stück's awesome thread, he used the front half of an E60 (manual I6) driveshaft, the rear half of an E39, and a custom transmission cross member.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerraPhantm View Post
    Bell housing is the same as long as you get the transmission from the right car.

    E46 M3 transmission is relatively plug and play. ZF 6-speed (E46 330i, m54 Z4 3.0i, m54 e60 530i) is less plug and play, though IMO the better transmission.
    I'll maybe consider this but my budget is unfortunately tight and I need it to come together somewhat quickly and easily as it is my daily and I can only borrow my parents' cars for so long lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by computiNATEor View Post
    Yeah, if I recall correctly from Stück's awesome thread, he used the front half of an E60 (manual I6) driveshaft, the rear half of an E39, and a custom transmission cross member.
    That sounds like a little intense for me since it'll be my first time doing a manual swap or really any transmission work lol.

    --

    Does anybody have any more info on how this all goes together mechanically? Obviously it should all just bolt up in place of the old auto transmission and stuff. However my question is how / where do the hydraulic clutch lines end up going in?
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    Also does anybody know the answer to this?

    Do you happen to have the P/N for the differential flange for the manual 2.93 diff? I'm planning to swap the flange from that to my 3.46 diff but my parts guy doesn't have the differential

    I think it's #8 for the auto here: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=24_1897 & then #27 for the manual one here: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=23_1396 - please let me know if that's right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1823alex View Post
    I'll maybe consider this but my budget is unfortunately tight and I need it to come together somewhat quickly and easily as it is my daily and I can only borrow my parents' cars for so long lol.

    That sounds like a little intense for me since it'll be my first time doing a manual swap or really any transmission work lol.

    Does anybody have any more info on how this all goes together mechanically? Obviously it should all just bolt up in place of the old auto transmission and stuff. However my question is how / where do the hydraulic clutch lines end up going in?
    The hydraulic lines are not difficult; there are little "knock outs" present in the body for their run. A good smack with a punch/hammer should loosen them right up. Look at diagrams on RealOEM, and go to a junkyard (pick your part, whatever they're called around you) and try to find a manual E39 I6.

    Get a creeper, a set of Harbor Freight 6-ton jack stands, and their transmission jack. It's not terribly difficult, but it is a lot of elbow grease. There are excellent DIYs on changing the clutch; much of the process will be the same for you.
    https://www.cse.wustl.edu/~levine/BM...placement.html
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qZskpXW9t4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHWTT04gRG8

    I found it much easier to remove the bell housing bolts by lifting the rear of the transmission and reaching them from the top side of the motor. You can lift the hood out of the way by releasing the hood struts and putting it in "service position" by securing it with a pair of M8x1.5 bolts.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1823alex View Post
    Also does anybody know the answer to this?

    Do you happen to have the P/N for the differential flange for the manual 2.93 diff? I'm planning to swap the flange from that to my 3.46 diff but my parts guy doesn't have the differential

    I think it's #8 for the auto here: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=24_1897 & then #27 for the manual one here: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=23_1396 - please let me know if that's right.
    That's the transmission output flange, not the differential flange. The diff flange is what attaches to the driveshaft's rear CV joint.

    The transmission output flange is obviously going to be different between the transmissions. However, the part number for the guibo is the same. You will need a manual transmission driveshaft, obv, but I don't think there are any differences other than the length of the first section of the driveshaft.

    You can drive the car on the 3.46 differential, but your highway RPMs around 70mph are going to be around 3,300. My 530i5 with the 2.93 cruises at 80mph at 3k RPM.
    Last edited by computiNATEor; 10-19-2018 at 01:18 PM.
    Nate J.

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    Take 2 "Otto" - Toledo Blue/Sandbeige 04-25-2002 530iA Sport (CH98032). Sold 11-10-2017 at 147,743mi.
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    I've removed and reinstalled the 5-speed transmission in my car about three times now; I could probably go from fully assembled to fully disassembled in just a couple of hours. You'll probably need a few days, at minimum. You should also create a document for the exact wiring changes you'll need to make to wire in the clutch switch. With out it, your cruise control will not work properly. Use the wiring diagrams online: https://www.pss-autosoft.net/WDSInfo.php (and here's a PDF on how to read the Euro-style diagrams: http://www.e38.org/understanding%20e...20diagrams.pdf)

    If you're going to be putting in a ZF S5D 320z, make sure to replace the transmission shift pins. It makes a big difference to the "feel" of the transmission, as well as its "lean" problem. Thayer Motorsports will rent the tools to you. I bought a set to keep. Read this for more info:
    https://webspace.ringling.edu/~dplas...hift_pins.html

    The Getrag from the 525i does not have the shift pin/shifter lean problem, but it is also rated for less torque. I'd go for the ZF, personally. E39s are heavy. The ZF is easier to find, as it was used in everything from the E36 M3 to 528s to 530s.
    Nate J.

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    (eŌō\ (||||)º(||||) / ōŌe)
    Alpineweiss III/Black Merino Full 03-26-2007 E60 M5 Manual (CX08265). 157,000+. Dead starter -_-

    RIP, Seabiscuit. Black Sapphire/Schwarz 03-11-2003 530iA Sport (CK39185). T-boned 03-01-2017 at 155,861mi.
    Take 2 "Otto" - Toledo Blue/Sandbeige 04-25-2002 530iA Sport (CH98032). Sold 11-10-2017 at 147,743mi.
    Take 3 "Manuel" - Toledo Blue/Grau 10-29-2001 530i5 Sport (CE92358). Sold 02-01-2019 at 217,600mi. I regret that. Build Log
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    So I've got a final update for everyone for the time being:

    I jacked the car up level on 2 jacks in the rear and 2 jackstands in the front, pulled the fill plug with it idling @ proper trans temp (checked it with INPA). Then added fluid till it came out & it helped quite a bit as the fluid that was in there was brown / black and burnt so badly that it had water like consistency.

    Then I ordered parts for a trans filter & fluid swap, drained pan, unbolted it cleaned the pan, pulled the filter out & replaced filter then replaced pan, filled for the most part (~3 liters) with car off, then it came out so started car & added ~3.1 or so probably till it came out while car idled in Park.

    It is honestly a night and day difference, I was EXTREMELY worried that since the old fluid would probably have old particles helping the trans still work barely that the new fluid would be lacking that and it wouldn't work, but luckily it made it so much better.

    The shifts in general are so much nicer and you can't even feel it shifting in D and barely feel it in the 'manual' mode even when you make a shift at a not so great time, no more hard downshifts when I slam on the brakes and for a little while the 1st - 2nd hard shift up was gone but has since come back :/ - I'm chalking that up to the new & old fluid that was in the torque converter mixing. I still can't redline 5th but maybe it's just the load being put on the engine and I'm just crazy and it never did rev that high but I don't think that's the case lol.

    Overall though I'd recommend it and haven't had a torque converter code since the initial addition of trans fluids.

    For anybody curious / planning to do this I just picked up 2 x 1gal jugs of Valvoline Max Life ATF or whatever (It was ESSO LT71141 BMW certified - same cert. the ZF original fluid had and much cheaper ~28.99/gal jug & it was at the local Advance auto).

    Highly recommend this to anybody with slippage issues or a TC issue as a last resort before you either ditch it or manual swap it. I'll still be planning to do a swap but it's automatic life is prolonged for sure.

    Thank you to everyone for the help by the way, now onto solving my stupid EXTREMELY long cranking issue (It just recently started really roughly then sputtered out after cranking over and barely firing and died which was a new experience for me...)




    Parts I used / ordered:

    https://vgy.me/8J1kUK.jpg

    Ignore the bumper guard it's a front plate delete strip lol. For the trans pan gasket, I recommend using super duper thin wire run through the holes of the gasket and pan then putting the pan up screwing the screws in enough to hold the pan then pull wire out & fully torque the screws / bolts. Worked pretty well for me and kept the gasket in place the best.
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  22. #22
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    Alex that's great man. Not huge surprise to me, if the fluid was ancient. Don't believe the hack mechanic myths about "if you take the dirt out the tranny will be super sad and not want to work anymore!". That's 90% BS.

    In fact id suggest you do another fluid (only) change now to rinse out more of the old TC fluid that is still diluting yer fresh change. Might get even better.

    Good job on doing the fluid properly w tranny temps etc.
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
    1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)


  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    438
    My Cars
    2003 BMW 530i M Sport
    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Alex that's great man. Not huge surprise to me, if the fluid was ancient. Don't believe the hack mechanic myths about "if you take the dirt out the tranny will be super sad and not want to work anymore!". That's 90% BS.

    In fact id suggest you do another fluid (only) change now to rinse out more of the old TC fluid that is still diluting yer fresh change. Might get even better.

    Good job on doing the fluid properly w tranny temps etc.
    Yes for sure when I do my next oil change I will probably do another flush & fill, I'm not exactly loving $65 or so with tax for trans fluid at the moment lol, in a month or so probably will do & hope for the best again.
    2003 530i M Sport [Black Sapphire Metallic & Sand Interior]

    IMG_1075 by Alex Wilson Photography, on Flickr



  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    438
    My Cars
    2003 BMW 530i M Sport
    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Alex that's great man. Not huge surprise to me, if the fluid was ancient. Don't believe the hack mechanic myths about "if you take the dirt out the tranny will be super sad and not want to work anymore!". That's 90% BS.

    In fact id suggest you do another fluid (only) change now to rinse out more of the old TC fluid that is still diluting yer fresh change. Might get even better.

    Good job on doing the fluid properly w tranny temps etc.
    Unfortunate update I should have posted a month or so ago...

    We're back to square one basically with the current automatic transmission, it's sometimes fine other times likes to slip, less codes but almost always have a p0741 pending some days other days I can drive it hard and go without a code at all.

    Still haven't found a suitable donor car and or donor transmission. Only one so far might be a zhp 6spd from a 330i but I haven't looked into swapping that much yet.

    Can someone gimme a general run down on extra steps required for that vs. a zf 5speed from another e39?

    Edit: the zhp transmission is already been sold off the parts car

    Anybody know anyone in the Midwest selling a zf 5spd?
    Last edited by 1823alex; 03-25-2019 at 01:47 AM.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    La Habra, CA
    Posts
    1,117
    My Cars
    2002 525i
    lkqonline.com has 5 speed trans for that car, They're under $300. I believe the unit is a ZF. They have a 6-month or 6K mile warranty. I believe you can also pay a bit more and get a certain amount of labor covered under the warranty, which would be good if you're not doing the swap yourself.

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