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Thread: Clutch line vs shifting habits

  1. #1
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    Clutch line vs shifting habits

    I guess I just found out why17+ year old OEM clutch line needs to be replaced with SS beaded one. Took a car out over weekend for a joy drive with the wife. 1 hour into the drive got stuck in bumper to bumper for about 30 mins. After about 20 mins shifting between 1 and neutral, the gears started to engage much more difficult. No grinding, just takes some force to shift into any of the including reverse. Eventually it refused to go into any gear from standing still. I had to pull over and let it sit for about 40 mins to an hour (while having lunch). It started shifting better after it cooled down. So, I am going to get my clutch line replaced, I had a question about proper shifting techniques when in heavy traffic.
    I grew up knowing that it’s not good practice to stay on the clutch for prolonged period of time. Every time I stop, red light, slow traffic, I shift it into neutral and let go of the clutch. I have observed some people to sit at red lights with clutch engaged and still in the gear for minutes. My dad always said that clutch is like a box of chocolates.... um, no, more like a woman. Treat it gently and do not bother it too much, or eventually it will give you hell. What are your thoughts on this?

    PS., I know this is a really newbie question, so tease away. But maybe I been driving shift all wrong my entire life. Now that I been exposed to the clutch issue above, I know it would have been easier to sit there with clutch engaged and not shift at all. But what wear would one expect from doing that vs. keeping it in neutral when not moving?
    Last edited by DimrBimmer; 10-09-2018 at 10:27 AM.

  2. #2
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    It's considered proper in Europe to sit with the clutch in and in gear at red lights - that way in case you get rear ended, your car stalls and stops, instead of rolling in Neutral. I have always done this on all my cars and I have never had any weird clutch symptoms (knock on wood)
    Maybe clutches are like women - they like having attention... if you ignore them... things don't go well

    I think your issue is just due to the OEM clutch line swelling and starting to fail. Replace it with a stainless steel line and you should be fine

  3. #3
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    I was taught as you were, when throwout bearings were carbon-faced (at least in vintage British cars) and therefore subject to wear. Modern clutches use thrust bearings.
    Wayne

    1998 M Roadster
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerBreaker View Post
    It's considered proper in Europe to sit with the clutch in and in gear at red lights...
    I always thought that this behavior is taught over here in the US. You will fail a driving test in Germany when doing that.
    Last edited by me77; 10-09-2018 at 02:14 PM.

  5. #5
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    When I removed the transmission of my 1974 BMW 2002 for synchro repair in 1984, I noticed how fragile the throwout bearing looked. After that I stayed in neutral at stops on all my cars.
    Last week, on the Subaru Forester forum, I helped diagnose a problem on a 2001 with 200,000 miles by original owner The consensus was the throwout bearing. I then asked the owner if he waited at stops with the clutch pedal depressed, and he said both he and his wife did.
    So, do what you want or as customs or laws may require. Constantly used throwout bearings can last longer than you might keep the car.
    Last edited by Vintage42; 10-09-2018 at 02:57 PM.
    BMW MOA 696, BMW CCA 1405

  6. #6
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    Sounds like the classic original clutch line swelling problem. When I test drove my M roady it showed the symptoms of the clutch line swelling. Knowing about the issue, I bought it anyway with plans to change the clutch line with a SS one. On the way home in hot bumper to bumper DC beltway traffic the diagnosis was confirmed. Creeping along in first, I had to take it out of gear to keep from moving. Changed the clutch line and smooth shifting ever since! Good luck!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ///MRoadyJPL View Post
    Sounds like the classic original clutch line swelling problem. When I test drove my M roady it showed the symptoms of the clutch line swelling. Knowing about the issue, I bought it anyway with plans to change the clutch line with a SS one. On the way home in hot bumper to bumper DC beltway traffic the diagnosis was confirmed. Creeping along in first, I had to take it out of gear to keep from moving. Changed the clutch line and smooth shifting ever since! Good luck!
    Randy Forbes, I hope you are reading this. My transportation guy is on standby, just needs two weeks notice. I never knew that I will be looking forward being with out my roadster for few months, but couldn’t think of better way to temporarily part with it, knowing it’s going to be in good hands.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerBreaker View Post
    It's considered proper in Europe to sit with the clutch in and in gear at red lights - that way in case you get rear ended, your car stalls and stops, instead of rolling in Neutral.
    What?! In Europe over Atlantic you can press brake pedal on red light, gear has to be in neutral, clutch pedal released, foot on footrest. Steering wheel should be straight, even if you plan to turn soon after, so if you get rear ended you don't end up on opposite lane. It is considered bad practice to roll neutral to red light for safety reasons, but some (usually old folks) are trying to save fuel this way, as it is quite expensive here.

    Keeping car in gear on red light with clutch in is considered dangerous - on some red lights you can wait to up to 2 minutes, not all people can hold the clutch for such long time easily.
    Last edited by deni2s; 10-09-2018 at 09:28 PM.

  9. #9
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    When I'm on flat ground at a light, I usually just shift into neutral and take my foot off the brake. If I'm first in line, I typically watch the cross-traffic green light and shift into 1st when that light turns yellow. If it's a notoriously long light, I'll even slightly engage the parking brake.
    Nathan in Denver

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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerBreaker View Post
    It's considered proper in Europe to sit with the clutch in and in gear at red lights - that way in case you get rear ended, your car stalls and stops, instead of rolling in Neutral.
    I can attest that it hurts a lot less in neutral, unless you get side swiped by cross traffic.
    Nathan in Denver

    1999 M Roadster, VFE V3 S/C, Randy Forbes Reinforced, Hardtop, H&R/Bilstein, Apex PS-7, Supersprint
    1999 Z3 2.8 Coupe, Headers, 3.46, Manual Swap, H&R/Koni, M Geometry/Brakes, M54B30 Manifold, Style 42

  11. #11
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    Until just after buying my M, I used to ride the clutch at stop lights (or anywhere stopped) and leave it in gear. I broke that habit when the throwout bearing failed before 40,000 miles. Turns out it was on its way out when I bought it, making a noise whenever the clutch was in. I didn't recognize it as a problem, as the car was new to me and had always done it. I suspect that the previous owner had either had really bad clutch habits or the original bearing was faulty.

    I have since replaced it twice. Once from necessity and once because the transmission was out anyhow. I stopped riding the clutch at lights after the first one and trained myself to wait in neutral instead. I am guessing that mine is an edge case, but It's worth noting that a bearing can be bad enough to make noise before 29,000 miles (my purchase mileage) and fail outright before 40,000.

  12. #12
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    I've been unloading clutch load with throttle for 50 yrs.,slip into neutral for all stops, my clutch is starting to go at AX's, slipping at WOT in 1st and 2nd after 40K of axing, I'll replace everything @140K.

  13. #13
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    Interesting, I was always taught that was how it was done. I've *knock on wood* never needed to replace a clutch in many many miles of driving manual so figured I was doing something right. Maybe I'll try to break that habit, really had no idea that wasn't "proper"

  14. #14
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    Similar issue.
    This was my clutch hose when I removed it.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by magnetchief View Post


    Similar issue.
    This was my clutch hose when I removed it.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Hemorrhoid much? Certainly feels like that when there is a line of cars behind you want you to move out the way and you can’t shift into a gear. I literally felt like keeping in the neutral, rolling window down, coming out and pushing it off the road. Luckily I was in the wine country and not anywhere near big apple, so people were mellow and not a single person honked. Much appreciated!

  16. #16
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    I've always shifted into neutral at a red light--that's just how I was taught--it's second nature.

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