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Thread: P0011 code

  1. #51
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    Looking good! I love the red valve covers!
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    Quote Originally Posted by kouks View Post
    Day 5, about 6 hours today, but about 2 hours was re=reading the timing setup on the GAS and Besian instructions and spining the engine again to OT to check timing line-up. All looked good and started to put it back together. Also picked up the VCs with Lamborghini red powder coat. Turned out well, but several areas on the VCs were not perfect surface and there are some areas with gassing out issues. Shop says there's nothing they can do with magnesium products, and he did warn me prior to giving him the VCs.
    Yep... actually under the thick finish of the factory paint, those covers tend to be pretty rough I think anyway... In a perfect world you'd maybe bead-blast them, then sand up any imperfections, and THEN do the bake outs etc... If they did what they said they did, the PC should last a good while. Sometimes mine 'sweats' out a little oddly.. I get a white residue that seems to come up through the PC - I keep expecting the PC to flake off and need to re-do but its been doing that for years now and no flakes. But indeed they are a PITA these covers!

    Quote Originally Posted by kouks View Post
    I'll need to remember where all those air hoses went to.
    Yeah. Factory doesn't provide a great "heres the vacuum hose map" like all cars used to have under the hood in the bad-old-days 70's-80's when emissions systems were rube goldberg disasters.

    Check this pic out.

    This comes from a VF-blower-kit "installation addendum" that I put together with bunch of the guys few years back... Yes its for one variant of the blower kit but it hardly changes the vac hoses at all so it should be roughly the same...

    Basically ignore the green line to the S/C, and ignore the extra check valves (factory uses one check valve I think - maybe the one on the SAI line is factory?) and other than that I think it should be the same. Somebody can check me on that but I'm pretty sure thats it.

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  3. #53
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    Day 6, 5 more hours and almost there. Everything was going great right up until I tried to install the oil dipstick. They sent me the wrong size O-ring, or I ordered the wrong one. Even if I could find the old one I would have used it just to keep going, but must have tossed it. As it is I'm off on another trip tomorrow and it will have to wait until the weekend to get done and turn the key.

    I was using my e38 DINAN 7 which has the same drivetrain as a guide for all the air hoses and will do the same for the wiring.

    Last edited by kouks; 10-24-2018 at 01:28 AM.

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    And on the 7th day...



    Actually started up with quite a rattle, then ran like it was misfiring, until I remembered there was plenty of oil in the plug wells. After that burned off it started running very well. During the test drive I put it in Sport and floored it...holy cow. The VANOS supposedly take a couple weeks to wear in, but it’s got plenty of revitalized power already.

    And on the 8th day drove 2hrs to visit my daughter because her e46 sprung a radiator leak and rebuilt her entire cooling system, except for the heater hoses, which will probably go soon too.

    02 e39 540i Sport (Son), 01 DINAN 7 (Me), 12 e70 X5 x35i (Mrs), 95 e34 525i (Daughter 2), 01 e46 325Ci vert (Daughter 1)

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by kouks View Post
    And on the 7th day...



    Actually started up with quite a rattle, then ran like it was misfiring, until I remembered there was plenty of oil in the plug wells. After that burned off it started running very well. During the test drive I put it in Sport and floored it...holy cow. The VANOS supposedly take a couple weeks to wear in, but it’s got plenty of revitalized power already.

    And on the 8th day drove 2hrs to visit my daughter because her e46 sprung a radiator leak and rebuilt her entire cooling system, except for the heater hoses, which will probably go soon too.
    Nice work! Looks great! Vanos rebuild makes all the difference...

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

  6. #56
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    Nicely done! Even after completing 17 guide jobs (soon to be 18) I still get a rush of excitement when it's time for the first start.
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  7. #57
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    Well...the celebration was short lived. I’m on a trip now, but my son blew a tire today, and as he said he drove the car slowly for a block to get it into the school parking lot, the CEL came on. After I called AAA and got him new tires he says the CEL code is p0011 again and the engine is shaking.

    Seems a bit unusual that during the first start it shook like a misfire was going on, then after a subsequent start it ran perfect, then after a few days of driving it’s running rough again and coding. At this point I’m thinking of rechecking timing again along with hooking up INPA to find anything unusual.

    Open to to any ideas before the real work starts. Wondering if VANOS May be causing this since they can move.
    Last edited by kouks; 11-01-2018 at 01:18 AM.

    02 e39 540i Sport (Son), 01 DINAN 7 (Me), 12 e70 X5 x35i (Mrs), 95 e34 525i (Daughter 2), 01 e46 325Ci vert (Daughter 1)

  8. #58
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    Save me some back reading, did you rebuild the vanos?
    What timing tools did you use?
    It's probably just the trigger wheel slightly off causing the P0011.
    The shaking could be anything, maybe a vacuum leak. See what your fuel trims are reading.
    INPA will show the vanos not functioning as that code will disable them when they fail the DME test when you start the engine.

  9. #59
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    Every time I've had a P0011 or a P0021 after a guide job it usually required redoing the timing— using the timing tools and just resetting the trigger wheel has never worked out for me, sadly. Thankfully it's not so bad to re-time the engine, all you need to remove are the valve covers and upper timing covers, after that you've got enough access to do a proper re-time.
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    Danny, if the crank is set to TDC with the crank pinned and the cams locked into position the only thing that could be off would be something to do with the vanos, maybe not forced all the way CCW, or the trigger wheel not set right. (this assumes you kept tension on the pass side of the chain when you removed the timing kits tensioner block until the upper cover was installed and then have the chain tensioner screwed in).

    So after you locked the crank and cams with the timing tools and then put the trigger wheel alignment jig on you must have found the trigger wheels to be off, right? How much were they off by?

  11. #61
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    Kouks when you timed it, did you unblock it, pull it through 720°, and then reblock / time it? A couple times? That's essential to ensure all the slack is pulled through the motor and that the VANOS indeed was at the right spot.
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  12. #62
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    Not sure what the trigger wheel is that you’re referring to.

    Used GAS tools and followed that process, plus backed it up with the Besian process and the TIS. Rebuilt the VANOS and as expected they were fairly tight after the new seals and nylon ring. Kept tension on the chain via the main tensioner area the entire time and did not release the cams until the pass cover was installed with a new tensioner in place and extended. When I removed the blocks I don’t think it moved at all since right before I installed the valve covers I put the blocks back on and they fit easily and square. This was after I turned it several times.

    Im sure I torqued everything correctly, hope nothing moved. I had fairly high confidence that the timing was set correctly. Even if it were off and the code appeared, the engine would not be shaking like a misfire, it would have to be way off for that and that could be valves impacting. Additionally, if it were way off, the engine would not “fix itself” and run perfectly smooth for 5 days, then go back to a misfiring behavior. I want to believe it’s electrical or vacuum, but the code doesn’t lie, it’s timing. I also replaced the OSV at the back of the intake manifold, but did not have any howling sounds like a vacuum problem, and that would not code a p0011 either.

    My my assumption on VANOS is that if it were jammed and not adjusting timing, it would run rough at a certain rpm but as rpm increased or decreased it would smooth out as it got close to its desired setting, then go back to rough after leaving that rpm. When we first started it we increased rpm to about 1500 and it wasn’t getting better. After we shut the engine down, I checked all connections and everything was in place, I was about to give up and open it up again. But my son wanted his chick magnet back so he tried one more time. Ran perfect. I was confused. Tried it a few more times and all was good. Drove it a week, no problems. I’m still confused.

    Ill be be back home Saturday with the wrench back on the loosen setting and see what we get.
    Last edited by kouks; 11-01-2018 at 11:46 AM.

    02 e39 540i Sport (Son), 01 DINAN 7 (Me), 12 e70 X5 x35i (Mrs), 95 e34 525i (Daughter 2), 01 e46 325Ci vert (Daughter 1)

  13. #63
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    The "trigger wheel" is this.
    Cam_10a.JPG

  14. #64
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    Ah, ok, yea, hope that did not move.

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    Yeah it’s key to time it at least twice IME just to ensure the slack was pulled through and the VANOS is fully closed. You say “GAS” procedure but he kind of mentions the “time, then turn 720 and redo” as semi-optional. Although he does say you really should do it I think. Did you do that part or not? Or did you time it up the once and never spin and recheck?
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  16. #66
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    ^Yea, I timed it, spun it 720, checked timing again. I accidentally removed the tensioner when the block were not in place, so re-timed it, spun it again.

    Ill just open it up again and re-check. The confusion is why it started rough, then ran perfect, now runs rough again, with a code. That just tells me something is moving. I may have not torqued something properly, or maybe the VANOS is not working properly??? I’ll update this weekend.

    02 e39 540i Sport (Son), 01 DINAN 7 (Me), 12 e70 X5 x35i (Mrs), 95 e34 525i (Daughter 2), 01 e46 325Ci vert (Daughter 1)

  17. #67
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    I will agree that is odd. Unless the shutter / trigger wheel is slipping back and forth...

    For sure I've seen cars that will run fine and throw the cam codes only periodically... I think if the wheel is only just at the edge of acceptable, maybe the DME doesn't see it hit 'off' all the time and it only happens at certain load or when its fully warmed up (or stone cold) or something. However those cars usually "run pretty good, just throws the cam error" which is different situation from here.

    How does the rough-running manifest? All the time / all-RPMs? Or a stumble/cut-out behavior? Have you triple-checked the solenoid connectors? Intermittent connections there would do something like this perhaps (although car should idle fine in that case).

    Here's when the VANOS is 'active' in case that helps your diag thinking:
    - just starts to kick in around 2000RPM, below that the cams are at default position
    - advances significantly / rapidly around 2400-2500RPM
    - tapers down as it approaches 4000RPM
    - drops off steeply above 4000RPM, back to default position
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    Welcome to the club... I’ve got o go back in there and retime my engine.

    Only one bank is over advanced... I’ll manage to muster up the strength to do it once again for the third time!!

    Hope all goes well!

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    With the head covers off only so far, both exhaust cams were perfect position. Bank 1 (passenger side) intake cam was near full CW, but when I rotated to the full CCW position, it was also perfect. Bank 2 (driver side) intake cam was full CCW and the block fit perfect. After adjusting the Bank 1 intake cam to full CCW, all blocks fit perfect on the cams.

    Visually at at this point, the trigger wheels appear to be in the correct position and the bolts are tight. Timing appears to be good.

    The TIS says the intake cams may not be in position since the VANOS can adjust them, which makes sense, but wouldn’t they be near the same position? I’m wondering if one of the VANOS is too tight during the rebuild and is not functioning properly?

    Geargrinder: The engine at idle acts like its trying to quit and when I gas it it feels like one or more of the cylinders is not firing. I’m only getting a P0011 code, could not get INPA to talk with the DME on one of my computers and the other computer uses the 32 pin which I realized today this e39 does not have. Was able to talk with the trans and other modules with no other errors evident. The basic OBD II reader did say misfire, fuel, O2 codes were pending, but I’m wondering if they are related to timing or independent.

    EDIT: Pulled off bank 2 top cover and the trigger wheel on the intake cam was perfect.

    EDIT 2: Since the timing is looking good so far, I’m beginning to wonder if the CPS in Bank 1 is going bad or has a short. Sure is acting like an electrical issue rather than timing, and the CPS sets the p0011/12 codes.
    Last edited by kouks; 11-04-2018 at 02:23 AM.

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    Could your trigger wheel be bent a little bit? That happened to scottieducati... got bumped as VC was going back on and was quite a mystery... wheel rotationally in the right place but the bend made it read poorly or off... I mean that's a crazy long shot but just mentioning it...
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  21. #71
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    You said you pulled off the top covers and the trigger wheels look perfect.
    By top covers do you mean the valve cover?
    You need to remove the upper timing covers to fit the trigger wheel jigs on to check the trigger wheel position.

    A bent tab on the trigger wheel like GG mentioned will throw a code, I do remember reading about it happening to a few guys over the years.
    If you think you have a bad cam sensor swap them and see if the other side throws a code.

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    ^ Jim, yes, I meant upper timing covers. I’ll check the trigger wheels but all they would do is set a code, not cause the car to run that bad. I’m going to continue to take it apart to the VANOS and reinspect the seals, make sure they are seating well. Put it back together slowly to make sure every vacuum line and electrical connection is good, and will likely get new CPS on both sides. Probably take me until tomorrow to get it back together.

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    So I removed the VANOS units to make sure they were OK before I put it all back together. The Bank 1 VANOS was not pressed all the way since there was a slight space, so partially pressed it again. However, when I re-installed was having problems getting the timing to work right. Did the initial setup and spun the engine several times, and was having an issue with the Bank 1 intake cam advancing slightly each turn. Reset everything and fully torqued it, was having the same issue. I was in the garage for nearly 5 hours trying the GAS method, then the BMW TIS method, and then used the Besian instructions to fill in the blanks, and still having the same issue. Each turn seems to advance the cam about 1 degree.

    While turning the cam, the VANOS advances near TDC, then delays until full CCW and continues to turn. Does it intermittently on other areas of the rotation. My initial guess is the VANOS does not have oil pressure in it, however Bank 2 does not have oil pressure either and it holds position throughout the rotation and does not advance or retard.

    Made a movie about it, Insight and advice needed.


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  24. #74
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    Kouks -

    Yes, its OK that the intake cam moves around a bit on the VANOS slightly with no oil in the system as you rotate - thats purely from the valvespring pressure being able to overcome the empty VANOS with no oil in it which has no resistance.

    If you'd have tried to rotate the VANOS with the special wrench as the car first came apart while it was still full of oil, you'd find it was really hard to do, vs how easy I'm sure it is right now.

    It is true at least in my narrow experience usually the fresh pressed VANOS is stiff from the new pressing and seals, but I'm not sure you can ever expect them to not wander at all from the valve spring pressure...

    The key to checking the timing is this:

    When you're back at TDC, and the cams are LOCKED up again... (not worrying for the moment that they slip around a bit and it might take a bit of wrench to get them back to lock position)... and if you just crack the Intake cam bolt... At that very moment, is the VANOS fully CCW still, or, can you push it a bit CCW again w the wrench or not? If not, and it was hard up against the stop with the cams blocked up, then it is perfect.

    Now... of course I suppose there is the chance that the rebuild didn't go perfectly right and the seal isn't pressed perfectly and that's making the slop happen even more easily and then when the engine run the VANOS is not activating properly... How 'easy' is it to move the VANOS around w/ the wrench when the bolt is loose? Is it super loosey goosey? If that's truly the case then indeed maybe that hub isn't right. But it would be super loose VANOS movement (no friction from the seals) that would be the worrying symptom, and not the cam wandering a little on rotation...
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  25. #75
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    Didn't want to repeat the same thing as GG said but I will.
    The cam jump is completly normal, the valve springs are pushing up on the cam lobes causing the cam to rotate. If you look at some of the lobes you'll see at least one lobe that is just over the peak of a lobe.

    If you did this with oil inside the vanos you'd see oil squirting out the back side of the distribution unit, same for rotating the inner section of the vanos by hand. If you watched the video I made when I timed my engine you'd see the cam jumping.

    When you pressed the vanos in a vice did you first torque the press tool to 100ft-lbs and then rotate the bolt another 360 deg?
    With new seals in the vanos it's pretty hard to turn the inner section by hand while holding the outer section.

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