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Thread: P0011 code

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    P0011 code

    Yes, I’ve read plenty on the subject.

    2002 540i Sport with 155k miles, status of guide replacement unknown. Bought the car with 150k miles and the engine was running great. The mechanic I bought iit from had replaced the trans and sold it to me but he had no prior knowledge of the engine either. He, myself and AquilaBMW all agreed that based on how well and quiet the engine was running, someone must have done the guides already.

    Fast forward to yesterday and the code appears. There is a slight wobble in the engine, like a slight misfire. No noises, still quiet, still produces good power, but not pushing it with the code.

    Other than dropping the pan and looking for plastic, any other tests I can run before I tear into it?

    During startup there is a slight popping noise telling me the VANOS solenoids are leaking. Would they actually cause a code? Even the engine to wobble a bit?

    02 e39 540i Sport (Son), 01 DINAN 7 (Me), 12 e70 X5 x35i (Mrs), 95 e34 525i (Daughter 2), 01 e46 325Ci vert (Daughter 1)

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    Having a P0011 actually, deactivates your vanos system and you are missing more oomph. That particular code says bank 1, maybe 2, intake camshaft over advanced.

    To get rid of it, you must have that bank timed properly using tools that is quality
    made, not eBay.

    I’ve dealt with this for a few months AFTER a TCG change. Had it re-done and now am happy.


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    I have a timing kit for the M62 but not the TU. Read somewhere folks were having issues with the Baum kits, any others out there that are better?

    02 e39 540i Sport (Son), 01 DINAN 7 (Me), 12 e70 X5 x35i (Mrs), 95 e34 525i (Daughter 2), 01 e46 325Ci vert (Daughter 1)

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    VANOS solenoids themselves aren't generally a failure part for these. VANOS failure symptoms are different across the engines, so some of the ways the I6's fail and the parts concerned aren't exactly the same.

    On the M62TU the solenoids almost never fail, the VANOS hub seals do start to leak, but even that doesn't cause dramatic symptoms or codes usually, they just make the powerband go soft.

    I think you know what you should do - drop oil pan and look for plastic bits.

    You very much need the TU VANOS-related tool kit to time these, there are some significant differences and needed to get the shutter wheels aligned.

    If the car HAD BEEN retimed/guided recently I'd say maybe they just got it slightly wrong or didn't fully tighten something and it slipped just out of spec, so maybe you could just re-time it from the top, but given that you can't confirm it... I'd check that pan for bits first. Running perfectly until now is DEFINITELY NOT any kind of confirmation that 'guides have been done'... I've seen 200k original guide motors running fine... until they didn't anymore...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh - and - G.A.S. timing kit FTW... its the best absolutely, especially for the shutter wheel setting.
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    ^-what he said. Time to drop the oil pan.
    The highest mileage car I did the guides for was 206K, most don't last that long.
    Bad vanos solenoids throw a different code.
    Good luck, keep us updated.

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    Yep, plastic bits, not only broken, but well grooved, these are original guides.

    I’m so happy I have to do this job. Just got all the parts in for my DINAN 7 front end suspension re-do and this happens. My son is not happy either, but now he’ll learn what a V8 looks like inside. Hopefully get it done by end of Oct. I travel a lot so only have 3 or 4 days per week to work on it.

    What a pita.

    Oh well, here we go.
    Last edited by kouks; 10-09-2018 at 12:17 AM.

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    At 150k miles it's likely the guides have not been done. I just did guides on a 540i/6 with 192k miles and it didn't even really need them— the owner just wanted to get rid of all the oil leaks and figured he'd get the guides done since doing the valve cover gaskets + upper timing covers is half the labor anyways.

    If you want it done quickly, ship it to Phoenix and have me do it at my shop We've completed 17 guide jobs and are on our 18th guide job at the moment. Otherwise, stock up on timing tools (GAS recommended), get a crank holding tool, a massive breaker bar, the Vanos press tools, and about $700 in parts along with 30-35 hours of work.
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    ^Thanks. I've done three timing jobs on M62s, the're just a PITA.

    02 e39 540i Sport (Son), 01 DINAN 7 (Me), 12 e70 X5 x35i (Mrs), 95 e34 525i (Daughter 2), 01 e46 325Ci vert (Daughter 1)

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    Clean off all the oil and gunk off the front and bottom of the engine will make it a more enjoyable job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kouks View Post
    ^Thanks. I've done three timing jobs on M62s, the're just a PITA.
    Well then you know the 'hard parts' already really.

    I was about to say "these timing jobs are a lot of work but one of those 'big jobs' where the first time takes you much longer and seems more complicated just to get your head around all the details and stay organized..."... but if you've done the NV motor already, you know most of what you're getting into. You just need to get down with the VANOS particulars... how to do the VANOS timing bit, taking out the water cooled alternator... Nothing that should change up your main routine much at all.

    Well except to reseal the VANOS hubs w the Beisan seals. Definitely do that, or, get some pre-re-sealed VANOS hubs from one of the guys that sells them. Getting them pre-done will be a chunk of time saving you can opt for that's for sure.

    One tip for sure would be once you're about to reassemble - follow the instructions to time, turn motor through 720, lock up and re-time at least a couple times. Absolutely must do as far as I'm concerned... I mean you might get it lucky the first time and some do, but if you don't there's too easy a chance you don't pull all the chain slack through, or, you have the VANOS hub just slightly not-fully-closed. All the cam timing stuff is 'infinitely adjustable' on these motors - no keys, no splines, no slots, no marks... - so its all too easy to have that not be exactly right and get an incredibly frustrating code afterwards. Having to do a re-do after its all back together really blows of course!
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    Thanks for the pep talk guys.

    Ive done the Besian job on VANOS on an M50, and there was a really detailed YouTube video on setting the timing that helped. I have the TIS but will also be looking for good DIYs and pro level YouTube videos to help out. I’ve had to retime one of the non TU M62s, but it was more of a double check to eliminate any timing issues. Time to learn the TU motor. I also have AquilaBMW on speed dial if I get stuck. He’s done plenty of these too.

    Would replacing the 4 seals in the distributor units be a good side job too, other than just the VANOS seals?

    I won’t do a DIY since I’m sure there are some good ones out there but I’ll be updating and asking advice as I go.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by JimLev View Post
    Clean off all the oil and gunk off the front and bottom of the engine will make it a more enjoyable job.
    sure do plan on it. The VCGs were seeping a bit of oil for a while so there’s plenty to clean up. Considering powder coating the VCGs while I’m at it.

    found your videos, nice
    Last edited by kouks; 10-09-2018 at 09:49 AM.

    02 e39 540i Sport (Son), 01 DINAN 7 (Me), 12 e70 X5 x35i (Mrs), 95 e34 525i (Daughter 2), 01 e46 325Ci vert (Daughter 1)

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    Seals in the distribution unit?? You mean the rings on the end of the cams that slide into the distribution units?
    Also take the cam to cam chain tensioners apart and clean them out.

    Watch this 2 part video, it takes all the magic out of timing a tu engine.
    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...a-540tu-engine
    Last edited by JimLev; 10-09-2018 at 09:43 AM.

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    I think he means the gasket for the distribution block, Jim? You usually suggest not to bother w/ that IIRC (I know that's what you told me...)

    kouks - the BMW VANOS systems on different motors are radically different so the M62TU "Beisan job" ain't gonna be remotely like what you did I don't think.

    Some pre-reading and DIY suggestions for you:

    One of the best documents for the core nitty-gritty is the G.A.S. tool sites procedure. They don't bother with a lot of - or almost any of - the "first you open the hood... then you take off the beauty cover... then you..." disassembly, they mainly focus on "OK here's what do do when you're ready to get into the real meat of the timing procedure". https://www.germanautosolutions.com/..._tools_diy.php

    Look also at the Beisan VANOS DIY. It is more of a starting point for disassembly actually, then when you get it all disassembled and are ready for the re-time, shift over to the G.A.S. doc... He does go through every single "OK first open the hood... then arrange your tools in alphabetical order on a santized white sheet... now you take the 8mm socket off the end of your wrench and replace it with a 10mm socket, and place the open end of the socket over the head of the bolt that is in the upper quadrant of the left cover 3mm below the wiring connector..." kind of super painful detail. http://www.beisansystems.com/procedu..._procedure.htm He does show doing the distribution gaskets etc. but I'll let Jim comment on that.. I did not bother based on his and other peoples advice - it would have been a bit more work to do those...

    Between those 2 you really have everything you need. Probably with your experience you'll fire through the top-end stuff-removal super fast, not much doc needed. Some of the top end stuff will be a little new to you (intake/MAF etc., taking out SAI pipes...) but you dont' exaclty need to follow instructions if you're a mechanic, nothing too complicated. The sneaky water pump hidden bolt is one of the few things off top of my head that's tricky sneaky in the disassembly, and you probably have that on the non-VANOS too I'm sure. The water cooled alternator isn't really as much of a hassle as you think it might be, just an assload of bolts. When you do get down to stuff like water pump and upper/lower timing cover bolts, I'd suggest strongly the old punctured cardboard map trick to keep track of them because there ARE a number of different-but-close lengths that are a PITA to keep track of. But you had same thing w/ the NV motors I'm sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    I think he means the gasket for the distribution block, Jim? You usually suggest not to bother w/ that IIRC (I know that's what you told me...)
    He mentioned 4 seals so I wasn't sure what he was referring to.
    The gaskets behind the dist units are metal, if they don't leak no need to replace them.
    Still need to pull out the check valves behind the vanos solenoids to make sure they are clean.

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    You know what they say if there is no proof, it hasn't been done... On the plus side you do them and never worry for a long time... Guides are inevitable on all M62s...

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    End of day 1, 6 hours into it. There should be a trivia question "How many air hoses does the M62TU have?", nowhere as many in the M62. No, the intake does not have to come off, but I figured I'll re-do the cooling system since the radiator hoses I pulled of were nearly ancient. Better do it now rather than kick myself 6 months down the road. Engine was actually in good shape, appears to have had normal oil changes with good oil, very little sludge for 155k miles.

    Good thing I took this thing apart, Heres the condition of the U rail.



    No plastic on the passenger side, and all of it was on the driver side. Some of it was melting.


    Last edited by kouks; 10-10-2018 at 02:55 AM.

    02 e39 540i Sport (Son), 01 DINAN 7 (Me), 12 e70 X5 x35i (Mrs), 95 e34 525i (Daughter 2), 01 e46 325Ci vert (Daughter 1)

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    Not too bad! I just disassembled an X5 4.4i today where the guides had failed completely. Zero plastic on the U-guide, zero plastic on the tensioner rail, and the stationary guide on the driver's side was almost completely disintegrated. Funnily enough, it drove into the shop under its own power!
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    Good work man, clearly you're having no problem with this job. Full cooling job is obv absolutely wise call - it is a BMW after all. Doing the valley pan as part of that too I hope.

    Looks like you bought the Koch or Baum style factory tools. They will work, just be more super careful / attentive to them, make sure the blocks don't 'climb' and esp be attentive when you get to timing the shutters which is where IMO the factory tools really suck over the recommended GAS ones.

    You dont strictly have to remove the solenoids but there is a check valve behind them that you should replace while you're at it. You remove the solenoids before the timing covers come off normally, but that requires a special thinwall deepsocket, and some guys do it the way you have here, then just use some oversized combo wrench.

    GOOD news is agreed that motor doesn't look sludged/gunked/varnished really at all which means its probably had really frequent good oil.

    EDIT - just realized you said you had the non-VANOS timing tools so that's why you have the blocks already...

    FWIW, you can rent or buy the set from G.A.S., or, they do sometimes seem to sell partial individual tools from the sets... so since you have M62 cam blocks already, you could buy their VANOS shutter jig separately. This says "out of stock" but if you call them up maybe they would be willing to steal one out of a set for you... (or maybe their web inventory isn't updated...) What you wouldn't have would be the tool to rotate the VANOS hub... I don't see that on their site as a stand-alone...

    http://www.germanautosolutions.com/p...hp?product=134
    Last edited by geargrinder; 10-10-2018 at 07:21 AM.
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    I’m picking up a full TU timing kit from AquilaBMW this afternoon. Not sure which kind he has but he’s used it on several jobs with no issues. Yes, the blocks are from the M62 kit I have, just put them on so I could remove the tensioner and keep moving. I don’t have one of those thin walled sockets yet so left the solenoids in place for now. Once I get the TU timing kit, all that is coming off down to the cams, I’ll be pulling the cam chain tensioner too.

    On the books this is a 40 hr job, with the VANOS rebuild let’s say 50 hrs, so I’m guessing 8 half days in the garage. My son will be doing a few small things too, he’s just learning, maybe we’ll get it done sooner. Mostly hope I order all the parts I need so I’m not at a standstill, kept notes as I went in on everything I should replace. I’m thinking closer to $1500 or more just in parts. Yikes.
    Last edited by kouks; 10-10-2018 at 08:46 AM.

    02 e39 540i Sport (Son), 01 DINAN 7 (Me), 12 e70 X5 x35i (Mrs), 95 e34 525i (Daughter 2), 01 e46 325Ci vert (Daughter 1)

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    geargrinder's Avatar
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    Yeah Kouks - that number is “about right”. Give or take and plus minus what brands you buy and how many “extras” you do at the same time.... (how’s that water cooled alt look? Like it’s ever been replaced? Yer gonna have it out anyway...)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Btw serp belt tensioners pulleys too, right?

    if it’s getting daunting let me just assure you these motors run tight and quiet and smooth after the whole kit and kaboodle so it should be real satisfying when you do get it buttoned up.
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    Looks pretty clean Kouks.
    Those check valves behind the vanos solenoids really don't need to be replaced, they are all metal, a few squirts of your favorite solvent will clean them up. I've only seen crud in them on one engine I've done.

    Not part of any timing kit is the crank holder. You can make one with a long piece of angle iron that you bolt to the crank flange. The other end will be resting on the floor or frame rail.
    The crank flange (one use bolt) is 27mm. Some guys have got it off with a 1/2" drive breaker bar, lots have busted them.
    I bought a set of 3/4" drive impact sockets and a 3/4" breaker bar. Put your jack handle over the breaker bar and you have a nice 4" lever to remover and torque it.

    AND...don't try to use the flywheel lock pin to hold the crank. If it bends the crank will be off a few degrees which "can" contribute to other stacking errors that could give you a CEL.
    Last edited by JimLev; 10-10-2018 at 10:07 AM.

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    It doesnt take 10 hours to rebuild an M62 VANOS !! Or it shouldnt at least...

    Nice work on this engine though. TCG's are mostly just tediously removing stuff out of the way. Having the right tools helps (like the solenoid socket)

    Think $1500 is more than weve ever ordered in parts for one of these jobs but sounds like you are doing coolint system too so makes sense

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    I think the very 1st Vanos o-rings I did took maybe 1hr as I really wasn't 100% sure I was doing it right. The 2nd vanos only took 10 min.
    You need a big vise to hold them when you press them.

    As for the cam lock blocks for the Baum or Koch tools I made up a bunch of these hold down tool to keep them flat against the head so you don't have to keep pressing them down while your timing the engine.

    CamLockHolder1.JPG

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    I bought my e38 with around 220k on it and figured someone had to have done the guides already. One year later, low and behold they broke on a old start one morning in freezing temps and you could tell it was the first time they were touched. New guides and rebuilt vanos and have put 30k on it now at least and still running like a champ...

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    Day 2 working on it (was on a trip late last week), about 4 hours (total of 10 hours so far)



    Couple questions:

    1. See that hose that goes across the upper oil pan, its connected to the trans oil cooler. Does it just pull out of the oil cooler? I ordered all new coolant hoses, just don't want to break anything expensive.
    2. I stopped work just a the pic shows. The wrench was holding the cam while I tried to loosen the bolt on the exhaust sprocket. Problem is, the bolt required a lot of torque (felt like I was applying 50+ Nm) and is still not loose. Yes, I know its reverse thread, that's not it. Is it supposed to be that hard to budge. Again, I stopped before I did anything stupid, like snapping a camshaft. EDIT: Well I answered my own question, looked it u on the torque specs and VANOS is 110Nm and the exhaust sprocket is 125Nm. Yep, need a breaker bar for those.

    For those wondering about the Jesus bolt...it didn't have a chance.

    Last edited by kouks; 10-14-2018 at 12:09 AM.

    02 e39 540i Sport (Son), 01 DINAN 7 (Me), 12 e70 X5 x35i (Mrs), 95 e34 525i (Daughter 2), 01 e46 325Ci vert (Daughter 1)

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