P0011 code

[purplecty]

Your plugged into the OBD port under the dash.
The connector gets 12 volts at pin 16 from F25.
The data is sent over pin 7 directly to the DME. This should be the only data wire from the OBD connector to the DME.
The other two pins, 4 & 5 go to ground.
Very strange you can connect to other modules but not talk directly to the DME.
Maybe try letting the car go to sleep, disconnect the battery for 10-15 min. Turn key to POS 2 for a few sec then back to off. Reconnect battery and see what's what.
Purplecty suggestion would also be a good thing to try.

If it doesnt work on the DINAN 7 also, I can send you a link for another version of ediabas that may work... Maybe the one you have now os the older one you were using for the prefacelift 7?

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[kouks]

Well, I took it to a local Indy who's a good reasonable guy and he pulled all the codes for $65...

DME 71 Camshaft position sensor open circuit. That's it, same as the P0343. I did learn the oil level sensor is inop and there are some minor IKE and EWS codes, mainly due to low voltage (bat is getting old), but that was it.

After about a 20 minute Q and A with him describing what I've done so far, he had two suggestions.

1. Replace both CPS with Bosch. The ones I have are from a company called OEM, but obviously not BMW CPS. This was on my to do list, and yes, I know better than to go aftermarket on CPS, but I discussed how replacing them with the original CPS did not make the code go away. Still, he said do it to eliminate that variable.

2. May be that the replacement camshaft from the junker is bent or have flat spots on the lobes, even one of them. Visually it looked good but he said only a machine shop could actually tell me. The CPS may be picking up a slight wobble in the cam as the flat spots hit and setting the code. Says he's seen that happen before.

Hopefully its just the CPS and replacing with the Bosch will solve it, otherwise, its teardown x4 times.

[purplecty]

Well, I took it to a local Indy who's a good reasonable guy and he pulled all the codes for $65...

DME 71 Camshaft position sensor open circuit. That's it, same as the P0343. I did learn the oil level sensor is inop and there are some minor IKE and EWS codes, mainly due to low voltage (bat is getting old), but that was it.

After about a 20 minute Q and A with him describing what I've done so far, he had two suggestions.

1. Replace both CPS with Bosch. The ones I have are from a company called OEM, but obviously not BMW CPS. This was on my to do list, and yes, I know better than to go aftermarket on CPS, but I discussed how replacing them with the original CPS did not make the code go away. Still, he said do it to eliminate that variable.

2. May be that the replacement camshaft from the junker is bent or have flat spots on the lobes, even one of them. Visually it looked good but he said only a machine shop could actually tell me. The CPS may be picking up a slight wobble in the cam as the flat spots hit and setting the code. Says he's seen that happen before.

Hopefully its just the CPS and replacing with the Bosch will solve it, otherwise, its teardown x4 times.

Doubt it's the Camshadt sensor itself as swapping sides didn't cause the code to follow... If it was bad then the error would goto bank 2 when moved which you already know...

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[JimLev]

If the cam was bent it would bind in the head. It would probably break in two before it bent.
A flat spot is possible, that could be easily checked however that wouldn't give you a CPS code.
Did he have any idea why you couldn't read the DME?

[kouks]

^Purple, You're not making me feel any better...

This has got to be the longest and most complicated chain guide DIY to date...but that's what you get when you buy someone else's problems.

I didn't ask him about why I could not read the DME, his machine worked just fine. He mentioned that a flat spot could cause a vibration and cause the CPS to fail to read correctly, much like a bend timing wheel, which he also brought up. My thought is that may bring up a p0011 code as a timing issue. The p0343 (code 71) is an electrical code, but he did say he has seen it happen before. It is unusual that no matter how I swap the sensors, it stays on Bank 1 and that's the cam that was swapped out.

We did discuss VANOS too, but he mentioned that VANOS would produce additional codes maybe related to the timing or the solenoids.

[purplecty]

Sorry but don't let an indy undermine your genius... I've seen you rebuild your own trans which most "indys" won't even touch... Oh and when you're ready and tested your INPA in your 7 and it doesn't work, I have a dropbox link waiting for you with an ediabas version zipped up that should potentially work for you... may even have another version of INPA you could use... Maybe even a link to rheingold (ista) which will walk you through most if not all troubleshooting regarding your CPS error. PM me if interested brother...

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[JimLev]

He mentioned that a flat spot could cause a vibration and cause the CPS to fail to read correctly, much like a bend timing wheel, which he also brought up. My thought is that may bring up a p0011 code as a timing issue. The p0343 (code 71) is an electrical code, but he did say he has seen it happen before.

Yes a bent timing wheel would give you a p0011. I'm not buying the flat spot on the cam being the problem. The lobe would have to be almost completely worn off, you would have noticed it. The "vibration" would amount to a misfire which is a different code.
Plus there are 2 intake valves so both lobes would need to be trashed.
Do you have access to an oscilloscope to look at the CPS waveform?

When you get INPA working you could look at the engine smooth reading, that will show the cyl to cyl roughness reading.

All the info I have says P0343 is BMW FC 113 which is a bad bank 1 CPS reading. No FC 71 found.

[kouks]

^Jim, I probably could find an oscilloscope, got friends that work at the nearby college. Is there a write up on what to do?

The JY engine I tore down was obviously a chain guide failure. I removed bank 1 cams and that went fine. When I removed the covers from bank 2, and it was obvious from the seals the covers were on there for some time. The VANOS gear and even exhaust sprocket were already loose. That leads me to believe the engine seized and the valves hit the pistons. Depending on engine speed that’s quite a bit of force to loosen up a gear that’s on with 91 ft-lbs of torque. When he mentioned the cam flat spots, I immediately thought of the loose gears and all that force. So I think his theory holds some water.

I plan to go down the electrical rabbit hole first and see where that ends up before I tear into it again. I’ll post as I find anything significant.

[purplecty]

It could have something to do with that JY camshaft. Did you have this error before the teardown?

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[kouks]

^nope. New code after that cam went in, but also new aftermarket CPS. Sent you a pm

[JimLev]

Back to your CPS ohm reading you posted a while ago. I just checked the spare CPS I have, they all read infinity, not the 0 or 1160 ohms you indicated.
There are 3 different CPS.
The non tu CPS is shorter 18mm (o-ring base to tip) and won't reach close enough to the trigger wheel if used in a tu engine.
The tu engine used 2 different sensors, one is probably discontinued, they should be 26mm long.
Will have some scope info/pic in a while, got some errands to do.

[purplecty]

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...em-12147539166

I believe this one listed as OEM is the same one you'd get as a genuine with the bmw grinded off of it? Looks to have a bunch of good reviews and the one I would probably purchase if I needed one. I do have a bunch of used spare ones in my trunk though...

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[geargrinder]

Been having tech problems today but wanted to ring in here... Flat spots on the cam couldn't cause those errors.

The only way that error is thrown is electrical as pointed out. And the engine computer has no way of knowing where the actual valves are so could never detect a "flat spot" and throw a code for it. It only knows:
1. where the crank is via the flywheel and crank sensor
2. where the cam is via the shutter and cam sensor

If the shutter is in wrong position then it thinks the cam is not in right position, and throws "position" and "control" related errors.

If it doesn't get a good signal, it throws electrical type errors.

Bill - have you opened up the electrical boxes and looked for any wiring defects in there? Looked closely at the cam sensor plug on that side? An intermittent electrical issue could explain a lot of the symptoms here..

[JimLev]

Sure sounds like the signal isn't getting back to the DME. Are you sure the tabs aren't bent?
The end of the CPS is about 1/8" from the tabs it reads.

If you have access to a DVM that will read frequency or duty cycle that could be used in place of a scope.

Cam sensor info and signal.

Dscn2568.jpg

Dscn2571.jpg

Dscn2569.jpg

[kouks]

^Pretty cool stuff. I'll see if I can get one from the college as a loaner.

GG: I did open the bank 1 e box and it looked ok physically, tugged on the CPS wires and they were good. I'll take a closer look and also open up bank 2.

Jim: The replacement type is the middle one in the photo, the lower one is the type that came out. I actually removed the CPS from my non-TU M62 to try that in the engine and then realized it was the wrong size. Also, according to Bentley, the CPS should be 1128+/-50 ohms between pins 2 and 3 (thats on an older type CPS from my e34, and that's from memory, so don't quote me).

I also plan to remove the CPS and take depth measurements to the timing wheels at several positions to see if there is any issue, but again, both visually looked straight and matched up against each other before install. If the timing wheels were in the wrong position or moved I would assume I'd get a p0011/12 code telling me the timing was off, but that's not the case here, and the photos I took down the CPS holes confirmed to me the wheels are matched up fine.

Things are going to be real slow on my end here. Starting tonight I'm on a trip and flying my behind off the first 2/3 of Dec so I can have Christmas and New Years week off. Its good to have some seniority. I'll keep you gents updated if I find the solution and when I get any new data with inpa or oscilloscope.

Thanks for your suggestions. If one of your suggestions finds the problem, I'll send that person a good bit of their favorite libation

[geargrinder]

^Pretty cool stuff. I'll see if I can get one from the college as a loaner.

Yeah IIRC Jim stumbled into that one on some kind of windfall? A digital scope like that with memory, 4 channels, and high bandwidth is $$$.

Used oscilliscopes are worth stupid dough. And a risky business to buy. You either spring for the bucks for a serviced/certified one (generally 4 figures, assuming its not super super old or cheapo student model...) , or you gamble on an eBay / fleamarket special and you get what you get and crap might not work or be way out of calibration...

[JimLev]

Bill, I'll recheck the CPS ohm reading again, maybe with a non digital meter they may read something.
I have a DVM that will read duty cycle and freq, I'll see what that reads too.
I also was going to stick a magnet near the sensor (purple's link) to see if it had any effect on the waveform, will do that tomorrow just cuz I want to know.

If the CPS has a good signal than I'd check that signal wire all the way back to the DME connector. I'll update this post with the connector and pin # tonight.
You flying into ABQ anytime soon?

JC, yes that scope was the deal of a lifetime, it was used but a $5K scope for $250 at an estate sale, I'll buy them all day long. The li-ion battery will still run it for 2+ hrs if AC isn't available. Came with 4 probes too.
I still don't know how to use 1/2 the functions on it, never had one this nice/complicated.

[JimLev]

I did check the signals with a magnet next to the sensor tip, it didn't effect the signal at all.
My DVM was able to read the freq and duty cycle of the signal.

Here is the pinout for the CPS signal wire to the DME.
If you need to disconnect any of the DME connectors disconnect the battery first.
The middle connector (the big) one is the one you want.
If you look into the DME connector you'll see the pin numbers at the ends.
CPS Signals.JPG
Looks like I got the numbers mixed up between the top and bottom pics. Check both just to be sure.
If the signal is not a problem at both pins they should read the same.
The bottom pic is the one that is correct.

DME_Pins_1.JPG

[purplecty]

Any updates?

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[AquilaBMW]

Any luck Bill?

[kouks]

Sorry guys, been busy flying.

However, I did have time to go to a local JY and found another M62TU in actually great condition. The chain guides were still intact, worn, but looked fine. Took the intake cam, VANOS gear, timing wheel, both solenoids and both CPS sensors for $100. Plan to go back and get another set of covers and maybe the other VANOS gear. Had a local machine shop inspect the cam and they said it was within limits and no cracks.

My plan is to take it apart again, replace the cam and install new metal seals on it, rebuild the VANOS and replace the one that's in there now, replace the current timing wheel, and replace the solenoid with another used one.

My thought is the CPS is currently producing a code because the timing wheel is creating a bad signal (since multiple CPS produce the same code). Since I checked the position of the wheel and it seems fine (a bad position would cause a timing code), either the wheel is vibrating due to a bad cam, or a bad VANOS gear. I'll replace both. Before I tear into it, I will also replace the solenoid with another one (I have 3 other extras now) and if that works, saves me the teardown and rebuild again.

[JimLev]

Did we have you check the tabs on the trigger (timing) wheel to make sure none of them are bent?

[kouks]

Yes, they were fine.

[JimLev]

Before you take everything apart did you ohm the wiring between the CPS and the DME connector, post 143?

[kouks]

With all the holiday hullabaloo complete, it’s time to get back to fixing this.

Replaced CPS again with 2 other JY CPS, still same
Replaced VANOS solenoid just to see, still same
checked wiring continuity and voltage, all good

So next week the e39 goes back into surgery. I’ll be replacing the Bank 1 intake cam, Bank 1 VANOS gear (I rebuilt one from the JY) and replace the trigger wheel with another from the JY.