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Thread: S52 vs S54 driver experience?

  1. #76
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    Id take an S54 over a s/c S52. S/C S52 may be faster but that doesnt change all the other stuff that is better about an S54 AND you introduce unreliability and extra maintenance cost to the S52 at that point

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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerBreaker View Post
    Id take an S54 over a s/c S52. S/C S52 may be faster but that doesnt change all the other stuff that is better about an S54 AND you introduce unreliability and extra maintenance cost to the S52 at that point
    Hummm... IDK. At the " S54 over a s/c S52" point its really about maintenance cost/time and personal preference I think.
    Built S52 w/Dinan ISR-3 kit, NickG Stage 2+ Tune, Dinan Vortech V2 Supercharger, Dinan Air to Air Intercooler, Dinan CAI, Porsche 803 HFM, Buldogge 6" crank pulley, Griptec 2.90" blower pulley, Eurosport UD pulleys, Dinan 3.38 Diff, Dinan front/rear Swaybars, Dinan springs, Koni Yellow Sport Struts, Ground Control end links, South Bend Clutch Stage 3 Organic, AASCO Light Weight Flywheel 18.5#, Zionsville Radiator & Oil Cooler, Riot Racing BBTB, Schrick Intake Manifold, 42# Injectors, Schrick cams 264/256, Forged Wiseco pistons 9.0 comp., Forged Eagle rods, Supertech dual valve springs & valves, VAC crank & bearings, Supersprint mufflers, Euro Z3 midpipe, Raceland euro headers, Walbro 255, Bevauto ignition coils, Vortech Mondo bypass, Bailey Diverter DV30, Ireland Rear Subframe Bushings, Mason Engineering Strut Brace, Mason Engineering Clutch Petal, Apex 18" EC-7 Wheels, Full Custom Sound System, two trunk lids (with & without OE spoiler), Hardtop, Trunk full of AK's...

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubbafett View Post
    Hummm... IDK. At the " S54 over a s/c S52" point its really about maintenance cost/time and personal preference I think.
    It is, which is why I said I would take that, not that everyone else has to

    This whole thread is just about personal preference. I was a diehard S52 guy until I got an S54. I always said the an S/C S52 was the best of both worlds. But now I'm pretty firmly in the S54 camp... nothing against F/I or against the S52 but the S54 is a really great engine.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerBreaker View Post
    I was a diehard S52 guy until I got an S54. But now I'm pretty firmly in the S54 camp... the S54 is a really great engine.
    That's cool. So fill us in as to why you think this? (no offense taken at all, just curious)
    Built S52 w/Dinan ISR-3 kit, NickG Stage 2+ Tune, Dinan Vortech V2 Supercharger, Dinan Air to Air Intercooler, Dinan CAI, Porsche 803 HFM, Buldogge 6" crank pulley, Griptec 2.90" blower pulley, Eurosport UD pulleys, Dinan 3.38 Diff, Dinan front/rear Swaybars, Dinan springs, Koni Yellow Sport Struts, Ground Control end links, South Bend Clutch Stage 3 Organic, AASCO Light Weight Flywheel 18.5#, Zionsville Radiator & Oil Cooler, Riot Racing BBTB, Schrick Intake Manifold, 42# Injectors, Schrick cams 264/256, Forged Wiseco pistons 9.0 comp., Forged Eagle rods, Supertech dual valve springs & valves, VAC crank & bearings, Supersprint mufflers, Euro Z3 midpipe, Raceland euro headers, Walbro 255, Bevauto ignition coils, Vortech Mondo bypass, Bailey Diverter DV30, Ireland Rear Subframe Bushings, Mason Engineering Strut Brace, Mason Engineering Clutch Petal, Apex 18" EC-7 Wheels, Full Custom Sound System, two trunk lids (with & without OE spoiler), Hardtop, Trunk full of AK's...

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerBreaker View Post
    Id take an S54 over a s/c S52. S/C S52 may be faster but that doesnt change all the other stuff that is better about an S54 AND you introduce unreliability and extra maintenance cost to the S52 at that point
    I've experienced none of that. The only thing I'm missing out on is the extra RPMs. I'll do upgraded valvetrain to gain an extra 1000rpms, best of both worlds!

    '98 RMS stage 2+++++(491whp/390tq VAC cams, CES Cutring-9:1, Built blower, Meth etc)
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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
    I've experienced none of that. The only thing I'm missing out on is the extra RPMs. I'll do upgraded valvetrain to gain an extra 1000rpms, best of both worlds!
    James which kit do you have ?
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  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
    I've experienced none of that. The only thing I'm missing out on is the extra RPMs. I'll do upgraded valvetrain to gain an extra 1000rpms, best of both worlds!
    S52 bottom ends don’t like >7100rpm.
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  8. #83
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    The fact that S52 doesn't even have dual oil pickup unlike S50B32/S54 suggests it wasn't built for high lateral G operations (aka track).

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyrix1st View Post
    The fact that S52 doesn't even have dual oil pickup unlike S50B32/S54 suggests it wasn't built for high lateral G operations (aka track).
    Having been a member of this forum for 7 (8??) yrs - my impression has been that that S52 was simply a M52 which had been "hotted up" a bit, but really was still a passenger car engine; whereas the S54 was really something out of the ///M shop and designed to be more of a track capable motor, and hence the various features that attempt to make that more case - as you point out the dual pickups; or simply lighter block etc.

    But to all: again: thank you for the input... but it looks like a 50k mile '98 S52 has fallen into my lap, and at a price that if it doesn't satisfy the "need", that I'll be able to sell for no loss, and apply that toward a S54. ... but that fact: please don't let it end the discussion - I continue to find it worthwhile, and continues to provide info toward: will a S54 be the next step in short order etc. Thank you again.

  10. #85
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    Thats correct, the S52 is a bored and stroked M52 with upgraded cams

    The S54 is derived from the euro S50 which was a true motorsport engine as they actually raced those cars with those engines over there. The S50 was a totally different engine than the M50 it was based on, sharing very few components unlike the S52 and M52 which share most components

    gmushial, I seem to recall you having a facelift Z3? M52TU or M54 powered? If so I'm curious how you'll like the S52... they are not a big power jump even from the smaller M52TU... it will feel faster but I think in short time they'd feel more the same than different

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by GG///M3 View Post
    James which kit do you have ?
    RMS/Dinan stage 2 Vortech T-trim, CES cutting, VAC blowe cams etc.

    '98 RMS stage 2+++++(491whp/390tq VAC cams, CES Cutring-9:1, Built blower, Meth etc)
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    '22 Cadillac CT4-V BlackWing 6mt
    '22 Cadillac CT4 2.0T Sport AWD (wife's)

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerBreaker View Post
    Thats correct, the S52 is a bored and stroked M52 with upgraded cams

    The S54 is derived from the euro S50 which was a true motorsport engine as they actually raced those cars with those engines over there. The S50 was a totally different engine than the M50 it was based on, sharing very few components unlike the S52 and M52 which share most components

    gmushial, I seem to recall you having a facelift Z3? M52TU or M54 powered? If so I'm curious how you'll like the S52... they are not a big power jump even from the smaller M52TU... it will feel faster but I think in short time they'd feel more the same than different
    It'll be a jump from a m52tub25 - so a non-trivial hp jump... but what I think I'm looking for is not something that'll do 150 down the back straight, but in fact will toss with more agility in the sunday morning corner eating [or a basis from which to built toward that direction (without having to replace everything, like my impression it would have been with a '02 3.0)]... but if it's not enough, there are always S54s to be had, and the S52 simply becomes a down-payment toward such ;-) ... I don't think there was a bad choice in this.

  13. #88
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    About that stock M suspension, they were typically always toast by 40,000-42,000 miles when the cars were "new" so I do not think you're dodging the replace the shocks now bullet.

    I replaced the stock shocks on my '01 @ 3 mos. and less than 4,000 miles (the '01-'02 M Rdstrs used Coupe spec shocks) with a set of Konis and the improvement was like night & day.

    I put the stock take-off shocks on my then 20k mi '99 M Rsdtr, and while they were an improvement, the two cars were in a different league handling-wise.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Forbes View Post
    About that stock M suspension, they were typically always toast by 40,000-42,000 miles when the cars were "new" so I do not think you're dodging the replace the shocks now bullet.

    I replaced the stock shocks on my '01 @ 3 mos. and less than 4,000 miles (the '01-'02 M Rdstrs used Coupe spec shocks) with a set of Konis and the improvement was like night & day.

    I put the stock take-off shocks on my then 20k mi '99 M Rsdtr, and while they were an improvement, the two cars were in a different league handling-wise.
    Thank you for the heads up... and Koni's are still the shocks of choice [assume simple replacements and not going the coil-over route etc]? And when you say shocks, you mean shocks and not also struts? Though if one is going to do the tail, mightn't doing the struts also be in order - if nothing else to keep the stiffness of the two ends the same?

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Forbes View Post
    About that stock M suspension, they were typically always toast by 40,000-42,000 miles when the cars were "new" so I do not think you're dodging the replace the shocks now bullet.

    I replaced the stock shocks on my '01 @ 3 mos. and less than 4,000 miles (the '01-'02 M Rdstrs used Coupe spec shocks) with a set of Konis and the improvement was like night & day.

    I put the stock take-off shocks on my then 20k mi '99 M Rsdtr, and while they were an improvement, the two cars were in a different league handling-wise.
    Randy-
    Do Konis last on these cars? I know in the Porsche 911 and 944 applications, they don't last like Bilsteins. I just don't like the stock Bilstein valving, too little rebound damping.

  16. #91
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    In that instance, I consider struts and shocks to be the same thing__just don't think I can get myself converted to calling the lot dampers at this stage in the game (a strut is just a shock absorber in a fancier tube).

    Granted, I don't put miles on the cars like I used to__going from an >40 mile to a 14-step work commute saves more than just gasoline__but I'm still on my first two (2) sets.

    Konis can also be rebuilt, assuming the downtime isn't a concern. I'm not a fan of Bilsteins on these cars...

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Forbes View Post
    In that instance, I consider struts and shocks to be the same thing__just don't think I can get myself converted to calling the lot dampers at this stage in the game (a strut is just a shock absorber in a fancier tube).

    Granted, I don't put miles on the cars like I used to__going from an >40 mile to a 14-step work commute saves more than just gasoline__but I'm still on my first two (2) sets.

    Konis can also be rebuilt, assuming the downtime isn't a concern. I'm not a fan of Bilsteins on these cars...
    Thank you... Koni sports on their way :-)

  18. #93
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    I sure like Koni's on my 98 Z3M. I waited for the $50 off sale, which seems to happen a couple of times a year. Also, I suggest following advice given on this site for setting them. I set mine slightly stiffer, and now think I'll re-adjust someday. Mine are fine, but I wonder whether I'd have a better ride if I'd stayed with what is recommended on this site. ..... Another thought: on the front, I was afraid of sliding the Konis into my old tubes because they seemed tight right away. I was afraid of getting them stuck half-way in. I ground off the welds on the Konis VERY SLIGHTLY before install, only the high spots. They slid in nicely.

  19. #94
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    Hmm, maybe I'll do this someday on mine. I'm in the minority that actually likes the Bilsteins though. Would an H&R Bilstein front and a Koni rear have any improvements/ill effects? When I get a thump from the Bilsteins, it always seems worse on the arse end. Oh, and I'm lazy. Rear swap is a much simpler affair. I did keep the OEM strut (shock, damper, whatever) housings for a rainy day though, just in case.

    I also work for the company that owns Bilstein. Our employee discounts are pretty darn good.

    Wait, weren't we talking about S52 vs. S54?
    Nathan in Denver

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  20. #95
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    I have bilsteins on my car and they suck

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  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by s8ilver View Post
    Hmm, maybe I'll do this someday on mine. I'm in the minority that actually likes the Bilsteins though. Would an H&R Bilstein front and a Koni rear have any improvements/ill effects? When I get a thump from the Bilsteins, it always seems worse on the arse end. Oh, and I'm lazy. Rear swap is a much simpler affair. I did keep the OEM strut (shock, damper, whatever) housings for a rainy day though, just in case.

    I also work for the company that owns Bilstein. Our employee discounts are pretty darn good.

    Wait, weren't we talking about S52 vs. S54?
    We were... but since it turned out to be a S52, the conversation has morphed that direction... but I'm still very interested in S52 vs S54 comments, ie, the S52 might just become a down-payment on a S54... just couldn't say no to this one given price/conditions etc.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by BimmerBreaker View Post
    I have bilsteins on my car and they suck
    Tell us how you really feel!

    I can't really figure my cars out. Roadster is H&R/Bilstein on 18s and Z3 Coupe is M Coupe springs/Bilstein HD on 17s. The ride in the Coupe is far more harsh...maybe some soft squishy snow tires will make it better.
    Last edited by s8ilver; 10-17-2018 at 03:37 PM.
    Nathan in Denver

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  23. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmushial View Post
    We were... but since it turned out to be a S52, the conversation has morphed that direction... but I'm still very interested in S52 vs S54 comments, ie, the S52 might just become a down-payment on a S54... just couldn't say no to this one given price/conditions etc.
    Timing is everything. Sometimes the price and condition seems too good to be true, and sometimes it's just good, and true.

    Curious to see where this one ends up:

    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...m-roadster-27/
    http://www.mroadsterbuyersguide.com/...istingID=17707

    PO was asking $8500!
    Nathan in Denver

    1999 M Roadster, VFE V3 S/C, Randy Forbes Reinforced, Hardtop, H&R/Bilstein, Apex PS-7, Supersprint
    1999 Z3 2.8 Coupe, Headers, 3.46, Manual Swap, H&R/Koni, M Geometry/Brakes, M54B30 Manifold, Style 42

  24. #99
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    I remember when BaT was full of cool cars in various states of disrepair

    Not it’s just full of amteur flippers and dealerships looking to turn a buck.

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dirtsquirt View Post
    I remember when BaT was full of cool cars in various states of disrepair

    Not it’s just full of amteur flippers and dealerships looking to turn a buck.
    I remember those days too. However, there seems to be no shortage of buyers willing to (over?)pay. Ain't capitalism great?!

    I'm guilty. When I sold my S8, I thought the market would only bear about $10k. I sent it to BAT with a reserve of $11.5k. It sold for $13.5k. Then a super low mileage example brought over $25k. I can't figure out the car market no matter how hard I try.
    Last edited by s8ilver; 10-17-2018 at 07:17 PM.
    Nathan in Denver

    1999 M Roadster, VFE V3 S/C, Randy Forbes Reinforced, Hardtop, H&R/Bilstein, Apex PS-7, Supersprint
    1999 Z3 2.8 Coupe, Headers, 3.46, Manual Swap, H&R/Koni, M Geometry/Brakes, M54B30 Manifold, Style 42

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