S52 vs S54 driver experience?

[gmushial]

The S54 doesn't need a tune to turn on Sport mode (which will sharpen the throttle response). Just one wire and a momentary switch to enable it (check Google for how to install it). There use to be a small electronic module someone put together to turn on sport mode as well as the "Sport" light on the dash (not sure if this is still available). I enabled mine with the one wire method (no "Sport" light). In addition to the power difference, you may want to check into the difference with the nannies. Not sure how the S52 works, but my S54 is much less intrusive than my Z3 3.0 was.

Interesting... is there any reason why one wouldn't just leave sport mode on? Is there any downside? Or is there a problem with producing that "virtual switch closure" to make it happen? But not having sport mode enabled: what's the downside? What is it that one is trying to get rid of? The power difference - really power difference? Or a torque curve reshaping?

[BimmerBreaker]

Interesting... is there any reason why one wouldn't just leave sport mode on? Is there any downside? Or is there a problem with producing that "virtual switch closure" to make it happen? But not having sport mode enabled: what's the downside? What is it that one is trying to get rid of? The power difference - really power difference? Or a torque curve reshaping?

Mine has sport mode memory, I think its just a switch, so if you leave it on it will stay on. It just changes the throttle map, nothing else. But it makes a big difference.

[Fumanchu282]

I have an S54 M Coupe that I daily, and 2 weekends ago drove another forum member's S52 M Coupe back to back at autocross. He also drove my car when we swapped, so if he sees this he may be able to chime in.

The cars had 2 different setups, but many of the same components. Both have TC Kline DA coilovers (were set to different spring rates and different damper adjustments -- S52 is about twice as stiff up front, similar in the rear), both had RE71-R tires in 255 square fitment on 17x9" wheels. The S52 car had a big front sway bar and I can't remember if the rear bar was attached or not. My S54 has the stock front bar and no rear bar. Camber and caster were probably about the same up front. Ride heights were similar but not measured so the rear camber could have been different. Unknown toe settings on either car. S52 has aftermarket cat-back exhaust and possibly headers, my S54 has a completely stock exhaust.

Right off the start, there was a quick right-left-right into a straight, and here was the biggest difference between the two engines. Almost every single car that day, including the S52 M Coupe, had to shift to 2nd during the right-left-right. My S54 with its higher redline and long gearing could take the whole section in 1st and scream up to redline mid-straight before shifting to 2nd. It felt amazing and sounded amazing, it was the type of visceral "car stuff" that is the reason we all love cars and don't drive Nissan Leafs.

I will follow that by saying this: the S52 car was 2 seconds quicker on a 50 second course for both of us drivers. It's dialed in, it turned so much better, carried speed better, etc. So the S54 isn't some magical fairy dust...the S52 can be extremely capable and any S54 car is by no means guaranteed to be faster unless literally every other variable is taken care of.

A few other points that I'll throw in here:
- S54 DSC versus S52 ASC could realistically affect your day-to-day driving, but doesn't matter on the track or autocross course where it's turned off either way. DSC is a much better system though.
- Throttle response is a real, noticeable difference between the two, but stems from the fact that the S54's headers have the cats in them, versus the S52 cats in the midsection, so with catless headers the S54 not only gains 20-30hp but also has fast throttle response.
- S54 Sport Mode is just a throttle position remap, as stated above. Nothing changes in the engine -- this means that for a given movement of the throttle PEDAL, the amount that the throttleBODY opens is different, so you need to move your foot less in order to "gas it". Well, the downside to this is that you lose some ability to modulate the throttle so you generally would want Sport Mode turned OFF for real track/autoX/spirited driving so that you have more control, and Sport Mode ON on the highway so that you can feel "more response" in the car when you move your foot.
- I just did my own valve adjustment of my S54 at 100k miles. It took a half a day from start to finish. It's not that hard to do, and the tools and shims aren't too expensive. There are good DIYs especially on E46 M3 forums where lots of people have done them. Unlike other repairs I've undertaken, I saved the beer until the end because I didn't want to drop a shim into the bowels of my engine, but other than a little care, it's straightforward.

[nevan]

...S54 DSC versus S52 ASC could realistically affect your day-to-day driving, but doesn't matter on the track or autocross course where it's turned off either way. DSC is a much better system though...

I couldn't agree more. Having experienced with e46 daily cars in past, I find the the ASC intrusive...

[Henway]

Or you could be crazy and get an M54 for half the price of a S52 or a third the price of an S54....

[gmushial]

Or you could be crazy and get an M54 for half the price of a S52 or a third the price of an S54....

Had though about simply replacing what I had with the same... but since this will be for handling vs a DD or touring, by design, would like the lowered stance (2cm??); likewise the higher spring rates, stiffer bars etc... if this was going to be an only car, then a 3.0 would have been an easy choice, no question... much like the LA types that are blessed with their canyons for early morning drives; up here I have mtns and associated roads in three directions - the goal on this is much more corner carving.

[zellamay]

Let me ask it a different way, for fun. S54 vs S52 supercharged, if the end cost is about the same? It seems the SC S52 would have more power throughout, and I would guess the lumpy power-band would be corrected also.

[Randy Forbes]

[fmcfad01]

There is always so much misinformation in these threads.

Having owned both, and as a current owner of an S54, my vote is pretty clear.

I see randy is sitting out this go round from the popcorn above, but I will once again refute that the S52 is any more reliable than the S54. Valve adjustments are an easy, inexpensive, and infrequent DIY if its a Sunday car. I personally had more issues with my S52 than my S54, YMMV. People also like to argue the S52 is somehow better or more torquey around town, which is also just an opinion. Maybe a difference in perception of gearing, but I swapped my diff out with a 3.46, so that problem is gone.

You can look up my inputs to the sport mode thread on how to wire it up. The gentleman from Hawaii is not making anymore, however, he gave me all of the information on how to make them, what parts he used, and the code for the chip. I could certainly ask him if he's ok open sourcing that stuff and letting people have at it. There is a very good reason to turn sport mode back off...because it's WAY too twitchy for every day use in my opinion, and certainly for autocross. I had Nick G start tuning my car and he set my sport throttle map up so it's less dramatic than it comes from the factory while also upping the standard throttle map a bit. I never really turn sport mode on.

Anyway, if you want more specifics, I'd really suggest just going and driving both, you're going to read a whole bunch of opinion based stuff here. Go make your own.

[gmushial]

Glad to see you're still around these parts - hadn't seen your posts in some time... whichever it is: S52 or S54, it'll be coming your direction for the subframe reinforcement.

btw since you've probably seen more of these than most anyone else: what are your thoughts?

[gmushial]

There is always so much misinformation in these threads.

Having owned both, and as a current owner of an S54, my vote is pretty clear.

I see randy is sitting out this go round from the popcorn above, but I will once again refute that the S52 is any more reliable than the S54. Valve adjustments are an easy, inexpensive, and infrequent DIY if its a Sunday car. I personally had more issues with my S52 than my S54, YMMV. People also like to argue the S52 is somehow better or more torquey around town, which is also just an opinion. Maybe a difference in perception of gearing, but I swapped my diff out with a 3.46, so that problem is gone.

You can look up my inputs to the sport mode thread on how to wire it up. The gentleman from Hawaii is not making anymore, however, he gave me all of the information on how to make them, what parts he used, and the code for the chip. I could certainly ask him if he's ok open sourcing that stuff and letting people have at it. There is a very good reason to turn sport mode back off...because it's WAY too twitchy for every day use in my opinion, and certainly for autocross. I had Nick G start tuning my car and he set my sport throttle map up so it's less dramatic than it comes from the factory while also upping the standard throttle map a bit. I never really turn sport mode on.

Anyway, if you want more specifics, I'd really suggest just going and driving both, you're going to read a whole bunch of opinion based stuff here. Go make your own.

Looking at the dyno curves - my impression is that the S54 delivers some 5% more torque to the wheels across the curve - but that difference I'm not sure would be noticeable... though clearly the diff swap would make a quite noticeable difference.

W/re shimming the cam followers - that's every couple years if it's a sunday car - so that's not a real issue in my book.

The issue that does concern me is the rod bearings - but again: send the car to Randy and have him replace with his improved bearings, then never look back.

W/re driving them: I've done both - but neither for long enough to form a real opinion, or one that I'd trust - hence my question to those that have lived with one or the other, or even better both.

[cleanerPA]

I don't want to really debate the engine or gearing, but one big difference I've found in the S52 vs. S54 cars- the S54 cars are equipped with DSC, which is stability control. DSC works much better than ASC+T, which is the older traction control system used in the S52 cars. DSC has saved my butt more than once in regular driving where I hit a slick spot and the car wanted to slide. That alone is worth the hassle of owning an S54 car, IMO.

[BUCK57]

I bought a new 98 M and sold after 90K several year ago living in CO. Last Feb I bought a 01 M living back in LA. Last month I took a drive to the old neighbor hood of the western slope. Comparing my memory to current reality on high mountain passes, the S54 out preforms the S52. The two cars are the same other then cosmetics. Both cars have more than I have as a driver requiring moderation on my part not to get caught by Johnnie law or in trouble sliding off 550 into the Uncompahgre River!! After owning both, its so hard to downsize with power and my next car will have even more power

[gmushial]

I don't want to really debate the engine or gearing, but one big difference I've found in the S52 vs. S54 cars- the S54 cars are equipped with DSC, which is stability control. DSC works much better than ASC+T, which is the older traction control system used in the S52 cars. DSC has saved my butt more than once in regular driving where I hit a slick spot and the car wanted to slide. That alone is worth the hassle of owning an S54 car, IMO.

Worthwhile point... as I lean further toward an '01/'02 ... thanks.

- - - Updated - - -

I bought a new 98 M and sold after 90K several year ago living in CO. Last Feb I bought a 01 M living back in LA. Last month I took a drive to the old neighbor hood of the western slope. Comparing my memory to current reality on high mountain passes, the S54 out preforms the S52. The two cars are the same other then cosmetics. Both cars have more than I have as a driver requiring moderation on my part not to get caught by Johnnie law or in trouble sliding off 550 into the Uncompahgre River!! After owning both, its so hard to downsize with power and my next car will have even more power

Been there, done that... but being a Sunday day, that might actually be part of the draw... though being a DD probably would make it easier to deal with the too much power, too little traction issue. ... the other issues becomes: "handling" or more specifically lateral acceleration capability... one of the issues with the S54, is that one is getting into the Elise range, and they will, unmodified, drive circles around any Z... so again the question becomes: what is it I'm really looking for? but as to everyone else: very much appreciate the input/comments.

[fmcfad01]

We must all be getting older, I can't remember a single thread where people have brought up ASC vs. DSC as a discriminator between the submodels. As someone that's gone off into a ditch full of water in a different car with DSC off, I learned my lesson, but I can't say I ever noticed much of a difference between ASC and DSC while on.

[gmushial]

We must all be getting older, I can't remember a single thread where people have brought up ASC vs. DSC as a discriminator between the submodels. As someone that's gone off into a ditch full of water in a different car with DSC off, I learned my lesson, but I can't say I ever noticed much of a difference between ASC and DSC while on.

If it's a minor oops, the difference might be important... but major ones: you're on your own, with either on, or off. :-( Life is a b$tch that way... ;-)

[Dirtsquirt]

Apples to oranges with the Elise comparison. The cars fill completely different roles

[gmushial]

Apples to oranges with the Elise comparison. The cars fill completely different roles

I'm seeing both as sunday morning corner eaters... why do you see them as completely different?

[cleanerPA]

We must all be getting older, I can't remember a single thread where people have brought up ASC vs. DSC as a discriminator between the submodels. As someone that's gone off into a ditch full of water in a different car with DSC off, I learned my lesson, but I can't say I ever noticed much of a difference between ASC and DSC while on.

ASC won't help you with a yaw moment- it's traction control. If your drive wheels are breaking traction, it will help to prevent that, but DSC can individually brake a wheel to correct your trajectory- it's a big advantage in low grip situations. It definitely saved me from hitting a jersey barrier in heavy rain on old tires. I don't find traction control to be quite as useful- I can modulate the throttle just fine- but when you come across an unexpected situation, DSC can make the difference between an accident and just a scary moment.

[Cremaster]

this wouldn't be a DD

Anyone that's driven both: I'd love to hear your comparisons. [yes I've done some searching and reading, but am not really finding the comparisons that I'm looking for :-( ].

I might get put on ignore but........ If it is not to be a DD, I go with the 54 wash and wax it, and stick it in the garage so I can open the door and achieve an eye orgasm in 3 seconds or fire it up and have fun. I deal with bearings, welds that may fail, complicated valve jobs, quirky throttles, plastic that breaks, and other BMW things all with a smile because I know most people don't have a Z.

If I want a DD I go with the 52. I then deal with a bit less hp/torque, less complicated valve trains, drive a bit less aggressively (it will not turn it into a TR6) and have a pretty solid car to drive to work and cause mass jealousy. There are NO ROUTES to work that would require the capabilities of anything more than a M44 in a Z3. I can then I can wash and wax it, stick it in the garage and every morning open the door and have an eye orgasm and deal with BMW things.

I thought the 54 vs 52 was settled years ago. JMO.

[SteveG66]

Boils down to drive them both and see what trips your trigger. I just finished changing plugs on my 99 M Roadster S52 with 105k miles, it's a blast to drive. I continue to look for safe places to let her stretch her legs but it's tough. As much as I'd love to try a S54, it's hard to find the room to take advantage of the S52.

There is no wrong option between the S54 and S52, just get one and go have fun and don't look back!!!

[kyrix1st]

No contest, although my experience is S50B32 vs S52B32 on E36 M3.

US engine has decent torque down low but nothing after 5500rpm, where S50B32 has loads of torque from 2500 all the engine way to 7700. I would try to get S54 version which is based on S50B32.

[BimmerBreaker]

An S54 is a fine daily driver, better than the S52 imho due to its lighter inputs and smoother feel

S52 guys always trying to justify how the s52 is better in some way
Ive been there though. But s54 > s52
If you can afford the s54, get it

[khammack]

...I continue to look for safe places to let her stretch her legs but it's tough. As much as I'd love to try a S54, it's hard to find the room to take advantage of the S52.

If you want to have a fun place to "let her stretch her legs" try autocrossing. You don't need to do anything to your DD or you can mod it all you want. There is a class for everyone. It doesn't matter what type of car you have, autocrossing is a place to release your inner race driver in a very safe environment.

[gmushial]

Thank you to everyone for their input - very useful to hear the various points of view - and this is not to say: time to stop... I'm still finding such insightful to hear, ie, please continue. ... though the Randys have been too silent so far ??

At this point I think I'm leaning toward the S54.

But a related question: if one limits the selections to '98 - '02, why are there more Z3M's for sale than Z3's [weren't there like 8x as many non-///M's sold here vs ///M's)? ... the Z3's people just hang onto and drive them until they die? More of the Z3's have crashed and burned, leaving less to be had? Or maybe a lot of Z3's are like mine: knocking on 300k miles and deemed not worth selling?