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Thread: New Heater Control Valve Already Leaking

  1. #1
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    New Heater Control Valve Already Leaking

    I installed a new heater control valve, 64118391417, about six or seven months ago and it is already leaking from one of the 90 deg elbows. The darn plastic fitting just slipped right off. It wasn't glued or threaded on, but it had some very tiny locking ridges that didn't hold it place tight enough to stay sealed. Weird.

    I am tempted to glue the fitting back on but I am not sure what glue would stick to what appears to be some type of graphite impregnated plastic.

    Any suggestions? Thanks,

    IMG_20180928_154513731.jpg
    IMG_20180928_154505659_HDR.jpg
    IMG_20180928_154536285_HDR.jpg

  2. #2
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    Is that original BMW , Bosch, Hella or a cheap chinese copy? Sounds like a copy because I heard from a similar problem on a U.K. forum, Timm will remember.
    Info I posted here
    here it looked promising http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/1260571
    some days later problems http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/1261839
    and his details for the aux water pump desaster from China http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/1262170
    pics aux water pump http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/1262171

    I would not glue anything there, too dangerous, if that connection brakes off completely when you are driving the engine will lose coolant quickly and there is danger of headgasket failure.
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by shogun View Post
    Is that original BMW , Bosch, Hella or a cheap chinese copy? Sounds like a copy because I heard from a similar problem on a U.K. forum, Timm will remember.
    Info I posted here
    here it looked promising http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/1260571
    some days later problems http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/1261839
    and his details for the aux water pump desaster from China http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/1262170
    pics aux water pump http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/1262171

    I would not glue anything there, too dangerous, if that connection brakes off completely when you are driving the engine will lose coolant quickly and there is danger of headgasket failure.
    Shogun, I read through the articles you provided links to and exactly same problem, 'interference fit' just was not tight enough for fitting to stay in place and seal.

    Its not a Bosch or Hella, probably a Chinese knock-off. Its odd that the elbow fitting slipped out of its socket. It didn't break off. The tiny tabs that are suppose to lock it in place were too small to the fitting simply popped loose. This fitting is on the side of the assembly and hose goes to firewall. So I didn't lose much fluid and was able to drive several miles back to my house. Temp gauge never moved off center.
    Last edited by JDP530; 09-28-2018 at 07:31 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDP530 View Post
    Shogun, I read through the articles you provided links to and exactly same problem, 'interference fit' just was not tight enough for fitting to stay in place and seal.

    Its not a Bosch or Hella, probably a Chinese knock-off. Its odd that the elbow fitting slipped out of its socket. It didn't break off. The tiny tabs that are suppose to lock it in place were too small to the fitting simply popped loose. This fitting is on the side of the assembly and hose goes to firewall. So I didn't lose much fluid and was able to drive several miles back to my house. Temp gauge never moved off center.
    I had good luck with 3 products - WaterWeld, JB Plastic Bonder and Q bond (black bottle for plastic). Used the Q bond to helped seal a small pinhole leak on the upper plastic of my dad's E39 radiator as a stop gap measure and it has held for the last 5 years. I keyed the area with a file and sandpaper and it isn't coming off any time this life.
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  5. #5
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    Those Chinese copies need more than glue I'm afraid, I'd rather get a second-hand one and take my chances, much better chance of it lasting....
    Timm..2007 E64 650i Individual Sport..1999 E31 840ci Individual Sport..ex owner of 2000 E38 740..1999 E38 740i V8 M62..1998 E38 735i V8..1993 E32 730i V8..1988 E28 518i


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  6. #6
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    So did you order a oem one? My 1991 850i is blowing hot air on one side even with ac on.

  7. #7
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    First disassemble and clean the heater valves, maybe just dirty and stuck open. Pics how to do on my website, same heater valve is used on E34, E32, E31, see index fixes>>>>climate control>>>Clean / Repair the water valves

    Testing heater valves http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/841827/
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  8. #8
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    Which one is your website? Can you drop a link to the diy?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickmazzzone View Post
    So did you order a oem one? My 1991 850i is blowing hot air on one side even with ac on.
    I just used some epoxy plastic bonder and glued the elbow back on. Its just a slip or interference fit so plastic was not cracked or broken. Elbow just popped out of its socket. I had already ordered another knock-off but so far the the one I repaired is working without leaking. I guess I will keep a spare in my truck because its easy enough to change.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickmazzzone View Post
    Which one is your website? Can you drop a link to the diy?
    see my signature, there is my website, there on the left is the index go to: >>>> fixes>>>>climate control>>>Clean / Repair the water valves
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  11. #11
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    Genuine heater valves nowadays cost $539.05!! at FCPEURO, BMW 64118391417, and that is already a "bargain", have seen even higher prices, probably as long as stock lasts, because ECS, Turner and Pelican mention for this Bosch valve: (NLA)

    So we have to use in future China made ones and we can only hope that the quality improves. On the German forum I read already about some cases where they installed them and they work. Probably they are not all made in the same factory in China and quality might be different, so please, if you bought one, let us know your experience, good or bad, what were they problems....,seller or brand name ..
    examples: I just found on walmart website: TOPAZ 64118391417 Heater Valve for BMW $71.68, free shipping. Sold & shipped by BAPMIC AUTO PARTS INC, this Topaz brand is also sold in Germany and Japan for a similar price. Amazon UK: Folconroad "brand"
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  12. #12
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    If you want a genuine BMW control valve - BMW Direct Parts in Lincoln, Nebraska (a BMW dealer) show a cost for this item at $442.00- they have very reasonable costs for shipping.
    https://www.bmwdirectparts.com/

    I receive good service on my E31, E46 and E30 parts requirements from these folks when I need genuine BMW. They also have a Mercedes dealership and I get good prices and service from that side as well.
    /Henry

  13. #13
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    I priced one up last month at Sytners, best part of Ł350, so went for a cheap copy at Ł50. I was told it was UK stock, but it arrived from Germany in 3 days.
    Here is the question: As I have not yet fitted it, would I be better to strip one of my old ones and fit the seals from the copy valve?
    Cheers

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by e31gixxxer View Post
    I priced one up last month at Sytners, best part of Ł350, so went for a cheap copy at Ł50. I was told it was UK stock, but it arrived from Germany in 3 days.Here is the question: As I have not yet fitted it, would I be better to strip one of my old ones and fit the seals from the copy valve? Cheers
    I would try it first as is, recently I have read some threads on German forums where they installed them and they worked. Inspect it outside and note the comments of JDP530:
    I just used some epoxy plastic bonder and glued the elbow back on. Its just a slip or interference fit so plastic was not cracked or broken. Elbow just popped out of its socket. I had already ordered another knock-off but so far the the one I repaired is working without leaking.
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  16. #16
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    Originally Posted by e31gixxxerI priced one up last month at Sytners, best part of Ł350, so went for a cheap copy at Ł50. I was told it was UK stock, but it arrived from Germany in 3 days.Here is the question: As I have not yet fitted it, would I be better to strip one of my old ones and fit the seals from the copy valve? Cheers



    I would try it first as is, recently I have read some threads on German forums where they installed them and they worked. Inspect it outside and note the comments of JDP530:
    To be fair, it looks ok, but I can't have a failure when out of the country. I will have a proper look at it when back in the garage, thanks.

  17. #17
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    Couple of things:

    1. Yes Chinese substitutes are generally of a lower quality, but the biggest problems are from importers buying "second rate" stock for resale. Those are significantly cheaper but the warranty issues are assumed by the reseller (reading between the lines - No QC or even stuff that failed QC for grade A stock on the production line). If you have dealt with Chinese (and similar) suppliers you'd know what I'm talking about. The same manufacturer often have the same product offered at many price points, and you wonder why that is.....

    The resellers are generally online, and return processes are drawn out and difficult. Also you don't know its bad until you've put it on the car at which time they will try to deny you warranty. sounds familiar?

    No human wakes up in the morning and thinks about how to go about making more junk products and screw over as many people as possible. As much as its popular and even trendy to call everything Chinese junk, its just plain ignorant. e.g. Apple phone are made in China as is a lot of other decent gear so the country isn't the problem. To me there are 2 root causes that should be equally shared by both the manufacturer and buyer:
    a. Sourcing buyers imposing impossible price point requirements and waving dollar signs at manufacturers on QC failed units that should have been destroyed. If a manufacturer can't produce with an acceptable yield then they should be left to wither and go out of business, not rewarded by being able to sell their failed or failing wares as well.

    b. Manufacturers accepting impossible price points and cutting corners to meet it. Its a tough choice for a manufacturer to reject an order if it means going out of business or business going to an competitor.

    i.e. Stop buying junk and the junk will go away. People want an impossible steal of a price and they got one. They're just sour the cheater got cheated. I'm not talking about at an individual level, more the market dynamics as a whole.

    2. Just came back from a trip in China and there are shedloads of Made in China BMW and Mercs for the local market, yeah they feel a bit cheaper and the interior are more plastic-ky like a taxi. But talking to a random mechanic they are no less reliable then fully imported ones, Yes most parts are domestically made too. So again the problem is QC and their enforcement.

    3. That said - Here's a bosch (claimed) unit for USD130. https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-for-BMW-E31-E32-E34-5-7-8-Series-HVAC-Heater-Control-Valve-Bosch/352517049290 knock yourselves out.
    Last edited by affa; 04-22-2019 at 02:02 AM. Reason: formatting

  18. #18
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    I think AFFA has hit the nail on the head with regard to the root cause of issues with these low cost heater control valves. I come from a supply chain background and regular people would be surprised what happens in that environment sometimes. I have no first hand knowledge of the massive automotive airbag recalls with Takata airbags, but I would be willing to speculate that a buyer at Takata applied some cost pressure to a supplier and said supplier provided parts at the lower price point that appeared to be similar to the product call-out re the engineering drawing/specs and Takata QC failed engineering when doing the goods at receiving inspection. All to save a few pennies per unit. And when buying millions of of a part, pennies add up. And I fully agree- if people would stop buying junk these bad parts would not be flooding the market. Pricing, in most all cases, you get what you pay for. Personally, when I buy auto parts, I stick to name brand manufacturers who have a good reputation in the market.
    Getting a genuine Bosch E31 heater control valve for $130.00 USD is amazing. Most likely these must be new, old stock and, hopefully, have not been sitting on a shelf for so long that the seals have dried up.
    Last edited by henryc; 04-22-2019 at 10:47 AM.

  19. #19
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    I haven't had anymore problems with the knock-off valve I bought on amazon once I glued the elbow back on and I also ran a bead of glue around the second elbow to keep it from coming loose. Pump failed after warranty so I bought a second pump to keep in the car for out of town trips.
    IMG_20180928_154513731 (1).jpg
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by affa View Post

    3. That said - Here's a bosch (claimed) unit for USD130. https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-for-BMW-E31-E32-E34-5-7-8-Series-HVAC-Heater-Control-Valve-Bosch/352517049290 knock yourselves out.
    Just received the heater valve from this retailer and the unit is likely not manufactured by Bosch. Was hoping for the genuine article, but obviously not. Does not have any Bosch markings anywhere on the valve, on the original Bosch valves, there should be ‘Bosch’ stamped on top of both metal cylinders. Also not packaged in the usual Bosch logo containers but in a generic white box. Will probably return it for a refund.
    Bert
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  21. #21
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    M6csi - I just received one of these Bosch valves myself from that e-bay seller.
    It is genuine Bosch although it came in a white generic box- a style of box that was probably supplied to OEM parts depots.
    Look for this number on the part you received - "1147412042" then right next to it in a circle "442". These are Bosch manufacturing designations.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by henryc View Post
    M6csi - I just received one of these Bosch valves myself from that e-bay seller.
    It is genuine Bosch although it came in a white generic box- a style of box that was probably supplied to OEM parts depots.
    Look for this number on the part you received - "1147412042" then right next to it in a circle "442". These are Bosch manufacturing designations.
    Yeah, those numbers are on my valve as well. Does your’s have the name ‘Bosch’ engraved atop both metal cylinders? The last one I bought back in 2014 had the Bosch markings.
    Last edited by M6csi; 04-25-2019 at 09:09 PM.
    Bert
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  23. #23
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    No, Bosch not engraved on the cylinders on mine. I'm not surprised as these units may be (hopefully) newer production than the unit you bought in 2014 and the supplier of the cylinders could have been changed by Bosch. Sometimes units ear-marked for service parts (shipped to the BMW Dingolfing Parts Depot) may not have Bosch engraved on the parts at the request of BMW Service Parts Purchasing, but the dead give-away these are Bosch are the numbers I listed earlier.
    Of course, these could very well be knockoffs with the numbers that indicate Bosch, but after I did a close examination the quality seems too good to be a knockoff. I'm keeping mine for a future need.

  24. #24
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    if I may chime in here as well.... for older service parts bosch, hella (insert manufacturer here) usually move production and tooling to their tier 2 plants in other countries (eastern Europe, Asia etc) to make the parts price competitive. As there are no longer any QC requirements from supplying OE, quality DO suffer, especially cosmetically as moulds are used beyond they wear thresholds as they would have for OE quality. sometimes damaged moulds are repaired rather than replaced. it's not inconceivable that they just used the solenoid cups from a common bin (same solenoid is used in a lot of similar parts) that didn't have the logo stamping, may be they needed to retool the press for the cup and not having to stamp the logo is cheaper.

    likewise I have also had OEM parts (e.g. radiator, water pump) with OE part number and logo grinded off which means they came off the same tooling as OE but for whatever reason (cosmetic flaw or plain stocking issue) they were sold by the OEM instead but couldn't have the merc or bmw logo on it.

    so sometimes it is a crap shoot and it's part and parcel of the game in playing with old cars.

    I would reserve judgement on it being a knockoff. I have seen knockoffs with OE part number on it to fool buyers, but knockoff with the correct bosch part number nomenclature and layout as henryc suggested , which in itself doesn't mean much to the consumer, not so much.

    I have bought one of these on fleybay as well for a friend and so happens I also have in my new parts stash the real McCoy from bmw many years ago. I will do a detailed inspection and may be a side by side teardown and report here.

  25. #25
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    Correct manufacture’s numbers aside, why would the company omit the storied BOSCH name out of their products and muddy the authenticity of their parts?
    Bert
    91 850i-A
    1972 3.5 CSi (L-jet, Getrag 265 5 speed)
    1988 ///M6
    2021 X3 M40i

    The back to back BIG COUPE” duo

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