I want to go get a driveshaft made. I'm not very knowledgeable about u-joints. The JTR rear flange adapter uses a 1310 u-joint.
I have a GTO T56 which uses a rubber guibo slip yoke. I've decided to simply swap to a u-joint front slip yoke. I'm not sure whether to order the slip yoke or just let the local driveshaft shop supply one?
The reading I've done indicates most upgrade the front slip yoke to the larger 1350 u-joint. Does it make sense to use a 1350 in the front when the rear is the smaller 1310? Is this even doable insofar as balancing?
I don't want to over-think this but I don't want to end up with an inferior slip yoke if I let the local driveshaft shop supply one.
Thanks.
Tipsy: I did exactly what you are asking - provided my own front slip yoke (Spicer), JTR axle flange, 1350 front u-joint and the 1310 rear joint with a shaft diameter of 2.75. Steel...$319 from a local shop.
The 1350 is significantly stronger...prefer to not break the front joint ever (pole vault - although unlikely with all the exhaust in the way). Seems axles and the smallish rear tires 'fail' first though.
Aluminum is generally not available under 3 inch, but you posted a CF option. Great way to lose rotating weight and dampen vibrations...expensive.
Good Luck!
Affirm 1310 is the weaker, but axles are weaker still it seems. Also the 245 sized tire eases the shock to the drivetrain (unless drag radials!).
Also, I went with non-greaseable joints as some believe the passageways and the tolerances of the needle bearings are weaker.
I'd be curious of other folks' experiences. I did see one conversion that was able to squeeze a 3 inch aluminum in the tunnel. Likely what mounts you chose as well as bushing condition in the rear suspension would impact clearance. Possibly down the road, a CF is in the cards...other than cost, don't think any downsides.
I used a 1350 front, 1310 rear with no problems. I used Florida Driveline on 60 in Brandon to build mine, they are good people and know what they are doing.
Thanks for the feedback. I've had Precision Shaft Technologies and Dependable Drive Shaft, both in Clearwater, bookmarked for a while. I have no experience with any of them but I bookmarked these after having read previous positive comments..
I ordered a Spicer 3-3-4281X 1350 slip-yoke, Spicer 5-1350X u-joint and a Spicer 5-1310X u-joint. Still waiting on the 1310 u-joint to arrive. Haven't got any quotes but I'm leaning toward using Dependable.
EDIT: Just called both Precision and Dependable. With me supplying the yoke and u-joints, Precision said "about" $200 for 2.75" steel, while Dependable said "about" $300 for the same.
Last edited by TipsyMcStagger; 09-27-2018 at 02:35 PM.
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I dropped the stuff off at Precision this morning. It was kind of funny. The shop guy looked at the 1310 flange and said, "you know, this is going to be your weak point, right? This 1310 is only good for about 500hp."
I pointed out that my cammed LS2 would probably barely make 450 at the flywheel. He said, "why don't you just dump that POS rear and get an 8.8" from a Cobra?"
I explained that the BMW rear is strong enough for my current setup and that I've already let this project drag-on for way too long.
I told him getting it on the road is Step 1. Engineering a Ford rear end swap is further down on the priority list. LOL!
Well, it's always something. Precision just called and said "hey, we're going to have to make that shaft 3" instead of 2 3/4."
Apparently they don't have the correct "tube yoke" for 2 3/4" using the 1350 slip yoke I brought them. They said they could use a 1330 slip yoke and make a 2 3/4' shaft but I'd rather use the parts I bought.
Now I've got to go get the parts and bring them to another shop.
Sometimes math just doesn't make any sense and you gotta go with dependable over precision
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Yep. And the education continues;
After Precision called this morning, I did a search for 2.75 1350 weld yokes and found that Neapco has part#'s N3-28-57-1 and N3-28-57-2, which are 1350 weld yokes for .095 and .065 wall tubing, respectively. Apparently, the only 2.75 steel tube Precision has is .110 wall, for 4x4 applications. They wanted to give me a 1330 slip yoke and make the 2.75 shaft, pointing out that my 1310 rear u-joint is still the weak link in the chain. I got the sense (both yesterday and today) that they didn't have much patience for my questions, so I took my stuff and went on to the next shop.
Roger at Dependable was super nice and took plenty of time to have a conversation. We threw around so many numbers, citing both gauge (14ga, 16ga) and wall thickness, that I got a bit lost and I'm not quite certain what I've actually ended up with. I'll get clarification when I pick it up later today or tomorrow. But here's the gist;
Roger said .095 wall tubing is unnecessarily heavy for my application. And the Neapco 1310 rear weld yoke, part# N2-28-1617, is made for .083, while the front Neapco 1350 weld yokes are for either .095 or .065.
So, I honestly can't remember whether I'm getting .065 or .083 but in either case, one of the weld flanges is being machined to fit. And Roger said the 2.75" steel that he has is DOM, which apparently is stronger than...well, I'm not sure what it's stronger than. But stronger than non-DOM.
In any case, I'm getting a driveshaft and Dependable was definitely more willing to have a conversation than Precision. And if Roger thought .095 was overkill, I can only imagine how heavy .110 would have been?
Once I get the shaft, I'll clarify the tubing wall thickness and which weld flange was machined.
DOM tubing typically does not have a seem/weld along its length and usually more precise in the OD and ID dimentions = Drawn Over Mandrel. Non-DOM usually has a seam along its length where it was made into a pipe by some type of welding process.
Typical driveshaft application, to my knowledge only uses DOM tubing.
As far as wall thickness goes, I don't remember what my 2.75" is. It was way to long ago.
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I wouldn't be too concerned on the particulars of the shaft. A steel anything will not be the weak link. Comparing to my other car's aluminum shaft - which is incredibly light and feels like if I 'tink' the tube it would fold upon itself. My car isn't brutal, but has no issue with DR's, 4500 rpm launches, and 1.7 60 foots.
I got the driveshaft this evening. Looks nice.
It's .083 wall tubing, so the rear N2-28-1617 Neapco 1310 weld yoke was the proper fit and the front 1350 Neapco N3-28-57-2 weld yoke, for .065 tubing, was machined to fit the .083 tubing (.018 removed). Haven't had a chance to fit it yet but will do so tomorrow.
Tim, I paid within $3 of what you paid, but then again, I supplied the front and rear u-joints, so I guess I paid a bit more.
Last edited by TipsyMcStagger; 10-03-2018 at 09:09 PM.
Need pictures of the DS
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Well, it didn't fit. With the yoke bottomed out in the trans, the protruding center lip on the JTR rear flange was just getting caught on the rear diff flange. Obviously, even if I'd had that extra 1/8", it still would have been a no-go, because the slip yoke would have zero play in the trans. There was about 1.2" of yoke protruding with the yoke bottomed out.
I went back to the driveshaft shop, thinking along they way whether they would make a whole new DS or just shorten this one on one end. And obviously, I was curious as to what went wrong. I measured again before I left the house and it's dead-nuts 48" from the face of the diff flange to the face of the seal surface on the trans.
After explaining the scenario, Roger is guessing that the Spicer 3-3-4281X slip yoke is a little long (even though it's listed as T-56 compatible). His immediate suggestion was to simply shorten the yoke. My eyebrows were raised at this but Roger assured me he's done it a million times and that there's still plenty of spline engagement. He pointed out that the first 1/2" or so of the yoke isn't even splined.
I'd ordered the knurled bolts for the rear flange this morning ($7 each!) and pointed out I'd need enough play to fit the captive bolts into the diff flange.
So, Roger cut approximately 1" off the end of the yoke. It now fits, but it looked like it would be super close if I had the OE knurled bolts pressed into the flange. So I cancelled the order for the OE bolts and just used the 10.9 M10-1.5 25mm flange bolts and nuts I'd already bought. They really seem to fit just fine, so I'm not going to stress about it.
With the driveshaft bolted in, there's now just over 3/4" of yoke protruding from the trans and I'm guessing a little less than 3/4" for it to "slip."
I wonder if there's any difference in slip yoke engagement between the F-Body T-56 and the GTO T-56?
This lip on the JTR rear flange...
...wouldn't clear the front lip of the diff flange with the yoke bottomed-out in the trans.
No spline engagement at the tip of the yoke.
Y1350 yoke after being cut.
About 13/16" of free yoke with driveshaft installed. Before the yoke was cut, there was about 1.2" with the yoke bottomed-out.
The parallax is deceiving. There's about 3 7/8" of yoke remaining after being cut.
Rear JTR flange bolted in with 10.9 M10-1.5 x 25mm flange bolts and flange nuts.
Last edited by TipsyMcStagger; 10-05-2018 at 05:27 PM.
Bummer, but glad it worked out. You definitely don't want the shaft too long...movement of the diff and the engine/trans on rubber bushings can certainly be detrimental if it goes 'solid'!
Another piece of the puzzle complete!
If I remember correcty you want about 0.5" to 0.75" of play on slip yoke. That should be way more than enough. With independent rear suspension there is no play that affects the distance between diff and tranny as with solid rear.
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I started this thread because I didn't know much about driveshafts, slip yokes and u-joints, so this might be information-overload but maybe it'll help someone down the line. It would've helped me;
When Roger suggested to cut the driveshaft yoke to correct the fitment issue, my first thought was this seems like a Band-aid correction, despite Roger's reassurances. I still wasn't 100% clear why the DS ended up being an inch or so too long.
In looking closer at the dimensions for the Spicer 1350 3-3-4281X slip yoke I used and comparing them to the dimensions the 1310 2-3-4911X yoke that is probably more commonly used, the answer seems quite apparent.
The 1350 part description states "long barrel length." And it is long, compared to the 1310 yokes. Dimension #1 is a full 2" longer than the 1310 yoke (and 1.5" longer than Dimension #1 on Spicer 2-3-6081X, which is also a 27 spline 1310 yoke). And Dimension #3, the barrel length, is 1" longer on the 1350 yoke (4 5/8" vs. 3 5/8").
So after cutting the yoke, the barrel length I'm left with is still nearly .2" longer than the 1310 barrel, which lists T-56 fitment in the description. In fact, if Roger had cut the barrel another .2" shorter, then fitting the shaft into place would probably have been no problem if using the OE style captive bolts on the rear flange, not that I'm worried about that.
One more thing of note; notice the description of the 1350 yoke includes "vent hole in plug." Roger mentioned that this vent hole isn't necessary and often leads to fluid leaks, so he dabbed a little weld on the vent hole to close it up.
1350 Yoke
Dimension #1 - Length to center of u-joint = 7"
Dimension #2 - Barrel Diameter = 1.5"
Dimension #3 - Barrel Length = 4 5/8"
Dimension #4 - U-joint cap diameter = 1 3/16"
Dimension #5 - U-joint width = 3 5/8"
Series = 1350
Spline count= 27
Vent hole in plug
1310 Yoke
Dimension #1 - Length to center of u-joint = 5"
Dimension #2 - Barrel Diameter = 1.5"
Dimension #3 - Barrel Length = 3 5/8"
Dimension #4 - U-joint cap diameter = 1 1/16"
Dimension #5 - U-joint width = 3 7/32"
Series... 1310
Spline count... 27
Last edited by TipsyMcStagger; 10-07-2018 at 03:21 PM.
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