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Thread: Kirk Cage reviews?

  1. #1
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    Kirk Cage reviews?

    I'm building a DE car and first step is getting a cage installed.

    I'd like an 8 point, or whatever you refer to as the 4 rear's, cross bar, and 2 front door bars.

    I've seen pricing all over the place and very scarce info on weight.

    2000 323 Coupe with LS conversion. Strictly a DE/Instructor car so whatever I do I need HANS for both sides and equal protection all around, not just driver. Going with full racing seats/5 point harnesses.

    SPEC E46 cage is 5K by the time your done installing and for sure not looking to spend that much. Kirk's cages are pretty reasonable but are they developed for the car or is it 'here are a bunch of pipes that are close, cut and weld' type deal?

  2. #2
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    Main question: What is your life worth?
    If your answer is defined by a budget, then Kirk is a good enough setup for you.
    I have built over 200 custom cages. There are pros and cons for every setup. Simply bolting a cage to the sheet metal floor is a compromise in safety. Foot pads/cage bases on my cages extend up the rockers so as to distribute load across 2 planes. Not possible with a bolt in cage. An LS powered car has potential for serious speed which equates to serious potential for physics to take over. Serious speed requires serious safety.
    Just my .02 cents, your mileage may vary, money back guarantee, only one at this price,not to be combined with any other offers, no cash value, limited to stock on hand, no special orders.
    Chris Leone
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    roll cages, repairs and racecar fabrication
    1984 318i now 325is
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    1988 325is donor

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXLBIMMER View Post
    Main question: What is your life worth?
    If your answer is defined by a budget, then Kirk is a good enough setup for you.
    I have built over 200 custom cages. There are pros and cons for every setup. Simply bolting a cage to the sheet metal floor is a compromise in safety. Foot pads/cage bases on my cages extend up the rockers so as to distribute load across 2 planes. Not possible with a bolt in cage. An LS powered car has potential for serious speed which equates to serious potential for physics to take over. Serious speed requires serious safety.
    Just my .02 cents, your mileage may vary, money back guarantee, only one at this price,not to be combined with any other offers, no cash value, limited to stock on hand, no special orders.
    They do weld in's as well and the ones with the front bars did appear to attach to the floor and the side rocker. I'd never do a bolt in cage and in my previous cars they were welded.
    Last edited by ericspt; 09-24-2018 at 01:34 PM.

  4. #4
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    I believe there was a thread recently regarding the time it took someone's shop to weld in a Kirk cage. End result was a 5-6k cage anyhow, but maybe if you have the expertise to weld it in yourself that will not be the case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by olemiss540 View Post
    I believe there was a thread recently regarding the time it took someone's shop to weld in a Kirk cage. End result was a 5-6k cage anyhow, but maybe if you have the expertise to weld it in yourself that will not be the case.
    I don't and hence the question because the lower cost option is not always the best and if its going to take a ton of labor to make it fit I'd rather go another route.

    Tried searching but came up empty.

    I guess another question would be what should a decent cage cost for a DE car?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericspt View Post
    I don't and hence the question because the lower cost option is not always the best and if its going to take a ton of labor to make it fit I'd rather go another route.

    Tried searching but came up empty.

    I guess another question would be what should a decent cage cost for a DE car?
    I get about 3500 for a complete custom cage with forward foot protection bars.
    Chris Leone
    chrisleonemotorsports.com
    roll cages, repairs and racecar fabrication
    1984 318i now 325is
    1994 325is STU racecar
    1988 325is donor

  7. #7
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    MauiM3Mania is offline Observer/Master Skeptic Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericspt View Post
    I don't and hence the question because the lower cost option is not always the best and if its going to take a ton of labor to make it fit I'd rather go another route.

    Tried searching but came up empty.

    I guess another question would be what should a decent cage cost for a DE car?
    Look here.
    04M3 TiAg 69k slick-top 3 pedal
    99M3 Cosmos 61k S50B32 euro 6Spd

    88M3 AW 43k miles Project FS


    WTB: 3.5" Eurosport/Conforti CAI

  8. #8
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    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...highlight=cage

    This is the one I was thinking of. Bimmerworld cage is what took 38 hours to install.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ericspt View Post
    Kirk's cages are pretty reasonable but are they developed for the car or is it 'here are a bunch of pipes that are close, cut and weld' type deal?
    I got their weld in kit (initially just the rollbar and later the rest with 2 nascar bars). You'll have to cut no matter what cage you get because everything will be a little different depending on how you do the base plates but it was excellent in all the ways that matter, which is to say that the bends were perfect. The main hoop fits to within a half inch all around, same with the A pillar bars. The only issue I had was their dash bar was bent wrong (the bends were too far apart so it had no hope of meeting up with the front down bars unless the dash bar was in the engine bay). I wasn't impressed with the fact that I'd have to pay for shipping for the replacement so I got a straight tube cut locally for cheaper than the shipping would have been.

    The only other criticism I'd add is that there was no brace at the bottom of the main hoop. I don't see this often on most people's cages but it seemed wrong to me to leave the feet of the main hoop open (what are you counting on to keep the bottom half of the car from collapsing in a side impact), so I added a bar above the transmission tunnel bracing the legs of the main hop apart, tying it into the trans tunnel.

    We used RCC for our chumpcar cages because they were cheaper than Kirk (albeit lighter duty tubing, but I wanted an overbuilt cage for my car). It definitely didn't fit as tight as the Kirk.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXLBIMMER View Post
    I get about 3500 for a complete custom cage with forward foot protection bars.
    That is pretty reasonable if your including materials, too bad you were not closer.

  11. #11
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    If you're serious about safety and want to have a real discussion, you should get a cage for your daily driver and leave your DE car without one.

    You're far more likely to get into a fatal car accident the next time you're on public roads than on the track, especially a DE. It's kind of weird when you think about it, but it's true.

    My girlfriend made me aware of something else. She made a very good point when we drive on one-lane roads. Always hug the right line just in case someone coming in the opposite direction is driving distract and crosses the middle line.

    If you must have a cage in your DE car to simply feel safer, a bolt-in will be fine.

  12. #12
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    Thanks for the replies.

    The real reason for the cage? Chassis stiffness. It is an 18 year old car that I'm going to be putting a lot of power through.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJuggernaut View Post
    I got their weld in kit (initially just the rollbar and later the rest with 2 nascar bars). You'll have to cut no matter what cage you get because everything will be a little different depending on how you do the base plates but it was excellent in all the ways that matter, which is to say that the bends were perfect. The main hoop fits to within a half inch all around, same with the A pillar bars. The only issue I had was their dash bar was bent wrong (the bends were too far apart so it had no hope of meeting up with the front down bars unless the dash bar was in the engine bay). I wasn't impressed with the fact that I'd have to pay for shipping for the replacement so I got a straight tube cut locally for cheaper than the shipping would have been.

    The only other criticism I'd add is that there was no brace at the bottom of the main hoop. I don't see this often on most people's cages but it seemed wrong to me to leave the feet of the main hoop open (what are you counting on to keep the bottom half of the car from collapsing in a side impact), so I added a bar above the transmission tunnel bracing the legs of the main hop apart, tying it into the trans tunnel.

    We used RCC for our chumpcar cages because they were cheaper than Kirk (albeit lighter duty tubing, but I wanted an overbuilt cage for my car). It definitely didn't fit as tight as the Kirk.
    Thanks so much for sharing! I need a cage for my E36 coupe chassis, and I weld, but I don't bend. This is really useful info for me.
    If God meant for man to motor-swap LS engines into track cars, He wouldn't have created Corvettes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBasham View Post
    Thanks so much for sharing! I need a cage for my E36 coupe chassis, and I weld, but I don't bend. This is really useful info for me.
    Sure thing! One other thing I remembered is that the RCC kits came more ready to weld which turned out to be both good and bad. Many of the tubes are pre-notched except two of the bars were notched wrong... so if they get it right it could be a significant time saver.

    STAeXeT.png

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    Kirk does great work and can build whatever you desire - You get what you pay for however

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    Quote Originally Posted by Montana View Post
    You get what you pay for however
    I've got an oceanfront property in Arizona with your name all over it

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    If you're serious about safety and want to have a real discussion, you should get a cage for your daily driver and leave your DE car without one.

    You're far more likely to get into a fatal car accident the next time you're on public roads than on the track, especially a DE. It's kind of weird when you think about it, but it's true.

    My girlfriend made me aware of something else. She made a very good point when we drive on one-lane roads. Always hug the right line just in case someone coming in the opposite direction is driving distract and crosses the middle line.

    If you must have a cage in your DE car to simply feel safer, a bolt-in will be fine.
    Yea but who would ever drive with a helmet on the public roads...

  18. #18
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    As others have mentioned took a good look at your scenario. You have an older car not designed for a V8 running a V8. You want to drive it aggressively if not down right hard in a racing environment. On top of all of this you are building a race car and "investing" into a hobby you enjoy. My question, as a former cage builder, is why you would even entertain a "kit" vs finding a skilled fabricator to build a customer part?

    Your life is worth the few extra bucks, I promise you.

    Not only that, but if you are stepping up towards a full on cage, then get serious about it because you have a racecar now. Just like a house a good cage is the foundation for any race car and if you start with something that's just okay, you car will always just be okay, it will perform okay, it will resale okay. If you have a really nice custom cage built your life is safer, your car will perform better, and it will be more valuable if you ever decide to sell it.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBasham View Post
    Thanks so much for sharing! I need a cage for my E36 coupe chassis, and I weld, but I don't bend. This is really useful info for me.
    I hope it steers you towards a hand built cage. I 100% get that mass production pieces have an allowed "tolerance" but a .5" of clearance is a lot. That would simply be unacceptable to a custom cage builder.

  20. #20
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    When building cages, bending is the easy / quick part. Chassis prep beforehand, cutting, notching, and welding is the slow part. I've quoted out installing pre-bent cages many times and it's almost always within a few hundred dollars of just get a custom one that will likely have a better fit.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novablue454 View Post
    When building cages, bending is the easy / quick part. Chassis prep beforehand, cutting, notching, and welding is the slow part. I've quoted out installing pre-bent cages many times and it's almost always within a few hundred dollars of just get a custom one that will likely have a better fit.
    Exactly what he said!!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Chris Leone
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    1984 318i now 325is
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    1988 325is donor

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novablue454 View Post
    When building cages, bending is the easy / quick part. Chassis prep beforehand, cutting, notching, and welding is the slow part. I've quoted out installing pre-bent cages many times and it's almost always within a few hundred dollars of just get a custom one that will likely have a better fit.
    This might be true for you but I've only tried bending up tubes myself a few times and to get them as close as a well developed kit with templates that are known to fit tight, it took way more time than I'd care to repeat, versus what it cost to buy it pre-bent. I don't doubt that if you've done it enough then you can eyeball the main hoop etc to fit as well or better than any kit - I've seen a guy do it, but he ain't within a few hundred of a kit. But then this thread is probably not for you.
    Last edited by TheJuggernaut; 10-18-2018 at 02:24 PM.

  23. #23
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    I agree totally, custom is the best, and you get what you pay for.
    If God meant for man to motor-swap LS engines into track cars, He wouldn't have created Corvettes.

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