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Thread: Purchased yesterday - FailSafe driving home.

  1. #26
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    The best place to measure the alternator voltage is at the B+ connection - I've got my wrench on it here:

    Timm..2007 E64 650i Individual Sport..1999 E31 840ci Individual Sport..ex owner of 2000 E38 740..1999 E38 740i V8 M62..1998 E38 735i V8..1993 E32 730i V8..1988 E28 518i


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  2. #27
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    Time for some research. I'm certain that there is a big fuse somewhere for the alternator output. I would also guess that there is control for excitation. On my wifes 03 525i the control shuts off the alternator when the battery is charged to save fuel and cycle the battery. Sounds kind of crazy and unnecessary to me but that's BMW.

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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by acspecialists View Post
    Time for some research. I'm certain that there is a big fuse somewhere for the alternator output. I would also guess that there is control for excitation. On my wifes 03 525i the control shuts off the alternator when the battery is charged to save fuel and cycle the battery. Sounds kind of crazy and unnecessary to me but that's BMW.

    Be systematic, one thing at a time.
    Ugh time for research indeed, Ill dig around for some diagrams. I discod the battery last night and let it rest without charging it, it returned to original voltage on its own (12+v). Battery seems to charge itself better than even the alternator is capable of. Cranked the car, battery slowly drained without any sign of the alternator doing its job whatsoever. Not even a blip upward in voltage while observing the cluster.

    Checked wiring coming off the alternator, all appears to be well without removing the plastic shielding wrapped around the tiny wire bundle going to the plug on the alt. Shes spinning, the belts are new and I physically felt the pulley spinning with the engine on. Wiring+terminals to and on the battery are clean and even appear new or at least extremely clean like the rest of the car.

    Im still confused about how to test power/amperage on the alt itself as I feel like that should be a good indication of whether its even operating at all. I see the B+ nut but do I remove it and connect a lead to the bolt or run a lead straight to the nut and connect my other lead to a pos/neg point elsewhere. Im hoping its not bad wiring to the alternator because that wire bundle disappears into the abyss atop the engine.

  4. #29
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    Yes I would get some diagrams. If I had to venture a guess there would be nothing between the alternator connection that Timm pointed out and the battery, accept a fuse and a big one. Check for battery voltage at the alternator with the car off. If there is no voltage there is a break somewhere in the circuit. Don't forget the ground, that's the other half of the circuit. I'm sure it goes through the case to the engine then to the chassis and back to the battery. If the alternator is exited and the power circuit is broken you will blow the diodes.
    01' 750il Chromeline
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    00' 740il Dinan, CAI, Romulus exhaust, Stage 5 engine and transmission tune, 750 brakes, camber plates, strut tower brace. Sold
    00' 323i wagon for daughter
    03' 525i wagon for the wife, sold
    98' 740i for the daughter, wrecked
    92' 525i with over 200k, wrecked
    02' R1200 CLC, hit by a bus and broken in half. That one made the news!
    It's like herpes there is no cure but if treated properly you can live with it for the rest of your life

  5. #30
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    Yes, that's the plan - engine OFF - what's the voltage at the B+ post of the Alternator?
    Timm..2007 E64 650i Individual Sport..1999 E31 840ci Individual Sport..ex owner of 2000 E38 740..1999 E38 740i V8 M62..1998 E38 735i V8..1993 E32 730i V8..1988 E28 518i


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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by acspecialists View Post
    Yes I would get some diagrams. If I had to venture a guess there would be nothing between the alternator connection that Timm pointed out and the battery, accept a fuse and a big one. Check for battery voltage at the alternator with the car off. If there is no voltage there is a break somewhere in the circuit. Don't forget the ground, that's the other half of the circuit. I'm sure it goes through the case to the engine then to the chassis and back to the battery. If the alternator is exited and the power circuit is broken you will blow the diodes.
    SUCCESS.

    So I did exactly what yall suggested which was shoot power at the batt, then at the alt, with the ignition to On but engine off.

    Measured power and resistance at alternator plug (2 pins inside the actual wired plug after you disconnect it can be tested with a positive lead into one at a time, with negative probe on chassis ground) with ignition on and engine off, low but consistent readings - 8.88v on one pin, 12.04v on the other. Battery read the exact same as latter.

    Next step was B+ Nut. Removed it, shot power at the now revealed bolt, 12.04v. Inspected the actual Nut - it was the one from the previous alternator because my new alt came with an improperly speced/sized one. It came off super easy with my hands despite me having torqued it down 3 times during alt install - big problem. It was heavily corroded underneath at the threads and appeared to have even arced and melted on the edges at some point long ago. Removed, cleaned, and reinstalled previously Corroded B+ nut onto alternator, making sure the clamp underneath was properly seated to the bolt and alternator.

    Reconnected everything and Cranked car and let her recharge all systems, batt read 14.02v through instrument cluster almost immediately. 1 hour later and some miles driven, all systems still green and steady between 13.5v-14.3v, never going over or under.


    B+ nut was corroded and budging itself loose during operation. I suspect it caused the alternator to intermittently shut off/lose power each time the nut moved and the clamp slightly broke contact with the alternator.

    Edit: for those who come across this later with battery questions: I did purchase an AGM battery: H9 95r AGM which ran me $200 from Oreillys and its a Super Start. It was covered in dust. AutoZone did not have any. But it has been very good at recharging itself when disconnected from the car and car starts instantly every time.
    Last edited by Indigo46n2; 09-28-2018 at 06:19 PM.

  7. #32
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    Nice work!

  8. #33
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    Edit: for those who come across this later with battery questions: I did purchase an AGM battery: H9 95r AGM which ran me $200 from Oreillys and its a Super Start. It was covered in dust. AutoZone did not have any. But it has been very good at recharging itself when disconnected from the car and car starts instantly every time.
    Agreed, H9 is the size to go with, this car uses more electricity than a small village.

  9. #34
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    Glad to hear you killed it, electrical connections are a PITA!

    I got my battery from Oreillys and it is an AGM and it works fine. It's not like they make the batteries.
    01' 750il Chromeline
    95 M3 LS swapped
    07 M5 Manual
    06' M5, Spartan wheels and a 507hp V10
    00' 740il Dinan, CAI, Romulus exhaust, Stage 5 engine and transmission tune, 750 brakes, camber plates, strut tower brace. Sold
    00' 323i wagon for daughter
    03' 525i wagon for the wife, sold
    98' 740i for the daughter, wrecked
    92' 525i with over 200k, wrecked
    02' R1200 CLC, hit by a bus and broken in half. That one made the news!
    It's like herpes there is no cure but if treated properly you can live with it for the rest of your life

  10. #35
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    Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who chimed in. Ive been apart of other car forums and none of then were ever this responsive or helpful.

    Timm youve done an amazing job with your website. Good to have u around. Yall saved my cars life lol

  11. #36
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    Great stuff, and like everyone else here, always glad to help!
    Timm..2007 E64 650i Individual Sport..1999 E31 840ci Individual Sport..ex owner of 2000 E38 740..1999 E38 740i V8 M62..1998 E38 735i V8..1993 E32 730i V8..1988 E28 518i


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  12. #37
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    I would have never thought that could be a problem. Great post and glad you sorted this out. I was sitting on the edge of my seat when you stated you were on a several hour drive with issues.


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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timm View Post
    If the battery light comes on that means the alternator is not charging - so either it is not spinning (belt slipping) or it is dead - and I'm afraid we get a lot of dead second-hand alternators. Here's how to replace it:

    https://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/Altern...eplacement.htm
    Good to know. I'm studying this thread and the other recent thread about the transmission fail safe mode. I had a similar experience the other day; right now my suspect is the alternator. On the highway last night my instrument cluster flickered, I did see the battery light illuminate, and shortly after the car switched to fail safe mode. I was able to get the car to limp home. Using my Peak Research tool I checked for fault codes and found none. I thought that was odd (yet strangely satisfying!). Let car rest a bit, startup and a minute later it goes into failsafe mode. Check for fault codes, there are none. I let the car rest overnight, and this morning I started it up w/o issue and runs fine for two minutes and then I turned the car off (not wanting to tempt fate). Checked for fault codes, there are none.

    Again, I will have to study this thread and the other recent one to see what I can do that falls within my skillset. Thanks to all of those who chimed in on this thread with their input. While I am a seldom-poster, I have used bimmerforums.com extensively for repair guidance on my E36 (I am the original owner) and I am looking forward to using the E38 information to help with my first E38 that I picked up this summer (I am now the 5th owner of my E38). Timm, your site is awesome too!

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thresher View Post
    Good to know. I'm studying this thread and the other recent thread about the transmission fail safe mode. I had a similar experience the other day; right now my suspect is the alternator. On the highway last night my instrument cluster flickered, I did see the battery light illuminate, and shortly after the car switched to fail safe mode. I was able to get the car to limp home. Using my Peak Research tool I checked for fault codes and found none. I thought that was odd (yet strangely satisfying!). Let car rest a bit, startup and a minute later it goes into failsafe mode. Check for fault codes, there are none. I let the car rest overnight, and this morning I started it up w/o issue and runs fine for two minutes and then I turned the car off (not wanting to tempt fate). Checked for fault codes, there are none.

    Again, I will have to study this thread and the other recent one to see what I can do that falls within my skillset. Thanks to all of those who chimed in on this thread with their input. While I am a seldom-poster, I have used bimmerforums.com extensively for repair guidance on my E36 (I am the original owner) and I am looking forward to using the E38 information to help with my first E38 that I picked up this summer (I am now the 5th owner of my E38). Timm, your site is awesome too!

    Have you figured anything out yet? Your symptoms are exactly what I went through. Ever since I swapped the alternator and upgraded battery (which was surprisingly very easy if you use either Timms site or youtube videos) I've had zero electrical issues. Trust me it is worth ordering parts yourself and making a day out of it, shops will charge you a new a**hole.

  15. #40
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    Firstly what an amazing thread.

    Secondly I just became lucky enough to join the e38 club with my recent purchase of my 750iL 2000 facelift.

    Thirdly second day in to my purchase pretty much the identical sequence of events occurred with relation the lights that came on which all begin with the battery light.

    I'm a novice but willing to try what I can before I waste money at a garage.

    My first thoughts fall to the headunit which the dealer happily replaced for me with a mk3 facelift 16:9 headunit.

    As I've recently read someone on our forums claimed the mk3 headunit was sucking the battery.

    Again I'm a newbie but feel blessed to be in the company of fellows who have the nack to self diagnose.

    I'm tempted to go back to him to replace the mk3 for a mk2 or mk1 headunit.

    Any thoughts or recommendations on how to definitively diagnose this would be so greatly appreciated.

    I thank you all in advance

    Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk

  16. #41
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    As you have the battery light illuminated - then you have a failed alternator and time for a new one!
    Timm..2007 E64 650i Individual Sport..1999 E31 840ci Individual Sport..ex owner of 2000 E38 740..1999 E38 740i V8 M62..1998 E38 735i V8..1993 E32 730i V8..1988 E28 518i


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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timm View Post
    As you have the battery light illuminated - then you have a failed alternator and time for a new one!
    Wow thank you for your definitive diagnosis Timm.

    With all the lights and the Trans Fail Safe notice (which has since disappeared) if I change the alternator, then all should be well?

    (Worth noting the battery light came on while I was driving, soon after the other lights came on.)

    On that note, where might I locate one of these alternators for the 750iL here in Sunny South East England

    Also, is it ok to drive the car or will I damage it by driving it in its current state.


    Thanks again Timm

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    Last edited by dillalade; 10-17-2018 at 06:14 AM.

  18. #43
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    If the battery light is still on then you are running on battery power alone - and you won't last long! Ebay is good for the alternators, but it is a complete lottery in what you will get.

    I've only changed the water-cooled alternator on the 740i - but I guess the 750i is much the same (laborious but easy enough):

    https://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/Altern...eplacement.htm

    And yes, get the alternator working again and hopefully the other faults will go too.
    Timm..2007 E64 650i Individual Sport..1999 E31 840ci Individual Sport..ex owner of 2000 E38 740..1999 E38 740i V8 M62..1998 E38 735i V8..1993 E32 730i V8..1988 E28 518i


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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timm View Post
    If the battery light is still on then you are running on battery power alone - and you won't last long! Ebay is good for the alternators, but it is a complete lottery in what you will get.

    I've only changed the water-cooled alternator on the 740i - but I guess the 750i is much the same (laborious but easy enough):

    https://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/Altern...eplacement.htm

    And yes, get the alternator working again and hopefully the other faults will go too.
    Thank you Timm.

    Refurbished alternator arrives today (£130 all in for the alternator).

    Now I just need to find someone I can trust to get the job done.
    Timm I read through the linked Tutorial, as clear cut as those instructions are, I lack the confidence (never done anything mechanical to cars, only ever changed a wheel - I know, lame right.)

    Obviously a BMW garage will tear me a new one, trying to locate a recommendation.

    Would anyone have anyone to recommend me to.
    I live in and around the Heathrow area (anywhere m25 bound suites me.)

    I'd sincerely appreciate people's recommendations if you'd be so kind.

    @Timm I sent you a Private Message (if you don't mind)



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    Last edited by dillalade; 10-20-2018 at 05:58 AM.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timm View Post
    If the battery light is still on then you are running on battery power alone - and you won't last long! Ebay is good for the alternators, but it is a complete lottery in what you will get.

    I've only changed the water-cooled alternator on the 740i - but I guess the 750i is much the same (laborious but easy enough):

    https://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/Altern...eplacement.htm

    And yes, get the alternator working again and hopefully the other faults will go too.
    Mechanic replaced alternator today

    But still no charge

    Any ideas on what might be causing this.

    The battery light went away on the console, but the voltage only increased from 11.7v before alternator replacement to 12.5v after replacement of alternator (both reading are when car is running.)

    He's receiving a second alternator to redo the replacement, but I'm skeptical now. As his supplier said the alternator is new (not refurbished)





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    Last edited by dillalade; 10-25-2018 at 06:58 AM.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by dillalade View Post
    Mechanic replaced alternator today

    But still no charge

    Any ideas on what might be causing this.

    The battery light went away on the console, but the voltage only increased from 11.7v before alternator replacement to 12.5v after replacement of alternator (both reading are when car is running.)

    He's receiving a second alternator to redo the replacement, but I'm skeptical now. As his supplier said the alternator is new (not refurbished)





    Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk
    2nd alternator resolved situation
    Running at ~13.7 volts seems good now.

    But now keep getting check coolent level and now engine light.

    Topped it up twice

    Sent from my G8341 using Tapatalk

  22. #47
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    You just can't trust the second-hand alternators these days - every man and his dog is 'refurbishing' them which usually means they cleaned it with a oily rag and put a £200 price tag on it - pah!

    Time for diagnostics to see why the engine light is illuminated:

    https://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/Diagnostics.htm
    Timm..2007 E64 650i Individual Sport..1999 E31 840ci Individual Sport..ex owner of 2000 E38 740..1999 E38 740i V8 M62..1998 E38 735i V8..1993 E32 730i V8..1988 E28 518i


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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timm View Post
    You just can't trust the second-hand alternators these days - every man and his dog is 'refurbishing' them which usually means they cleaned it with a oily rag and put a £200 price tag on it - pah!

    Time for diagnostics to see why the engine light is illuminated:

    https://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/Diagnostics.htm
    Thank you Tim

    Hopefully the coolent is now sorted - warning light gone.
    Will check the coolent level tomorrow see if there no leak.

    Ktmp idle is about 108 Celsius, while driving around 104 Celsius.. sounds normal I think.. or not?

    INPA next to see what the engine light reflects.

    I have these:
    ROYALTEC BMW INPA K+DCAN K DCAN Interface,Diagnostic Tool OBD II Cable SSS ISTA NCS Coding Winkfp Programing Support E serials with Switch https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0779FK5..._5VJ1Bb8HJXWXA

    And

    MAOZUA BMW 20 Pin to OBD2 OBD II 16 Pin Scanner Connector Adapter Cable BMW E36 E46 E38 E39 E53 X5 Z3(Black) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06XWM1Q..._CWJ1BbPRCQF90

    Hopefully these are correct (I'm still learning).


    E38 750iL { M73 V12 }
    2000 Facelift | Club Leather | Style 5's
    Last edited by dillalade; 10-28-2018 at 06:54 PM.

  24. #49
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    Yes, they will work - the hard bit is usually installing INPA - but as long as you have a one-click installation package they are much easier! Those temperatures are normal.
    Timm..2007 E64 650i Individual Sport..1999 E31 840ci Individual Sport..ex owner of 2000 E38 740..1999 E38 740i V8 M62..1998 E38 735i V8..1993 E32 730i V8..1988 E28 518i


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  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timm View Post
    You just can't trust the second-hand alternators these days - every man and his dog is 'refurbishing' them which usually means they cleaned it with a oily rag and put a £200 price tag on it - pah!

    Time for diagnostics to see why the engine light is illuminated:

    https://www.meeknet.co.uk/E38/Diagnostics.htm
    I haven't yet had a chance to get a hold of a 32bit Windows 7 laptop for me to give the INPA software a go.

    Until then I have managed to get the below errors displayed via s 3rd party odb reader

    (MAOZUA Latest V7.7 Creator C310+ Airbag/ABS/SRS Diagnostic Scan Tool BMW Code Reader Clear Adaptation Engine Oil Reset Function (ONLY BMW cars) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B011KSTC..._D423Bb6J8CQN7)

    Any assistance on how bad this is (picture attached)
    I'm a complete novice with all this.

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