When starting the engine cold, if I let it idle to warm up:
It revs at around 1k rpm- no issue
After about 20 seconds it drops to 650-700 rpm. Here it begins to shake a little, and if i let it like that- engine code p1347 appears- misfire on cyl 3 with fuel cut-off.
If instead of leaving it at idle i accelerate above 1200 rpm- engine is not shaking and error does not appear.
Only happens at cold start, hot start or after engine warmed up already- working without any issue.
What i have done already:
Changed spark plugs, and swapped coils. No change.
Changed oxygen sensors after cats- no change (except the oxygen sensor error disappeared).
Now according to my research and what I have done:
The only plausible cause is the binding of a hydraulic lifter. Cause except for that- if it would be the injector, or some other intake part or some compression issue-> why would it happen only on cold starts on the exact same cylinder?
As I was searching for solutions to it I found some nice videos (from youtube for instance- from the 50s kid) on how to clean the lifters.
Also checked the price of lifters and appears they are extremely cheap. Well.. it’s around 8$ for an “INA” lifter, so around 200$ for all of them.
My doubt here is:
- The guys at the garage when they are working on it- i can bet anything on it- they will not give a damn about numbering them or keeping them into order. I mean they will say they did, but they will not..
- There is a lot of focus on the importance of keeping them into order to match the “use pattern” of the camshaft lobes. But what if I replace them with new liters? How will those “match” the use pattern? I mean I have nothing against spending 200$ for new parts, but I will not change the camshaft too soon, and I really don’t want to spend some money more and expect worse results then a simple cleaning.
- I also take into account on doing this on my own- should I keep the old lifters and just clean them- to make sure each of them maintains its place. Or i can take a day free and just keep an eye on the guys working on the car - and giving them precise instructions. And regarding the cleaning procedure, I guess easiest and most effective way- paint thinner as a solution in an ultrasonic cleaner?
This is for sure not something I will do now, I am planning to do it after it snows, cause for now i can use the workaround with accelerating a bit during idle, but i want some opinions on it and plan it.
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e39 520i ´99, shifter 5+1
Modifications done:
M54B30 swap
Powerflex rear subframe bushings
Koni Yellow + Vogtland springs
Short Shifter
K&N Panel Air Filter
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Swap injectors to see if misfire follows,
if so-send it out to RC Engineering for cleaning.
I will swap injectors, but judging this logically I am pretty sure it is not the injectors.
What makes you think it is injectors?
And sending out a single injector for cleaning is for sure not a good idea, internet is full of horror stories related to this kind of procedure, and sending them to the states will make the idea also extremely costly
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e39 520i ´99, shifter 5+1
Modifications done:
M54B30 swap
Powerflex rear subframe bushings
Koni Yellow + Vogtland springs
Short Shifter
K&N Panel Air Filter
Custom 2.5 Exhaust + Magnaflow free flow Mufflers
Alpina Rims
Facelift Head & Tail/lights
Alpina Green II color
Android Navigation
Morel Virtus 502 + Morel Maximus 502 + Audison LRX 6.9 Amp + Mosconi 4to6DSP
Oh man I'm really watching too much SMA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIt4tAhPk9U
Dodge Caravan with a misfire on cyl #3 (resulting in a not-misfire code) which turned out to be a bad coil burning out the coil driver in the ECU. If you're swapping stuff around and the misfire doesn't move you may as well:
- Check with a BMW scan tool to see if a more informative code comes up
- Check the compression on #3 - a sticking lifter or other problem should show up pretty obviously with low compression
- Double check the #3 coil with a multimeter (open or short across pins 1 & 3 = bad)
- Check the wiring at the #3 coil (are the terminals properly seated in the connector)
- Check the wiring to the ECU with a multimeter (it's a bit more complex than that Dodge but there are a few places where things could go wrong)
- That Subaru plug wire trick was slick, if you can rig up something similar you could use an old school timing light (or other inductive clamp) to ensure you're getting secondary voltage, if you have a scope you could check the waveform to see that you're not getting a ton of oscillations or somesuch.
- Put a smoke machine on the intake and see if anything comes out. It seems unlikely that the intake manifold gasket would fail only on one cylinder, but stranger things have happened.
The best way to check the injector would be to take the rail off, aim it into a container, and use a BMW tool to activate it manually and check the pattern and whatnot. If you have a scope you could also check current draw to see if it's sticking or shorted or something. Lifters do stick. If memory serves, typically you'll see sticking if you do a lot of short trips. But I'd also expect it to run funky on more than just one cylinder in that case.
I had the same behavior you are describing fairly regularly (except for the cylinder...mine was #5) until I changed all plugs and coils. I rarely get a cylinder 5 misfire code now. Can you hear a slight ticking noise at idle once the engine reaches operating temperature?
I agree with your thinking that it’s a sticking lifter. I have a slight ticking noise at idle and I believe it’s the lifter. My car is a 2003 530i Sport (manual) w/192k miles.
Not sure if the better to get new lifters or clean the old ones. There are some videos by someone named “Elbow Grease” that deal with sticking lifters.
If you're fixated on replacing the lifter, check the compression with the engine cold. If the compression is OK it's almost guaranteed to NOT be the lifter.
I'm also skeptical of sticky lifter. These motors aren't really known for those causing misfires. Do you have ANY ticking noise at all from the top of the motor? If not then I think you're just grabbing at a google result that doesn't apply.
These motors ARE known to have misfire problems, and the checklist runs something along the lines of...
- coils/plugs/ignition
- injectors/fuel pressure
- valve cover gaskets / oil leaks
- vacuum leaks and other intake problems - CCV, DISA
- stuck RINGS
I think there's some threads around from years ago with some guy claiming he discovered the holy grail of misfires was lifter related and that all these engines have terrible lifters etc. but that seems like an outlier and I'm always skeptical when you get a story like that where a declaration of a massive engineering flaw is completely unconfirmed by other widespread cases.... And in the process of course of doing his 'bad lifters' the guy basically would have had to redo all his gaskets and seals and connections and who knows what thing might have gotten fixed that he didn't notice was bad...
Like blarfo says... do some comp testing. Check ALL those other things... The fact that its just at idle when stone cold suggests some really minor little flaw. An injector can be sticky and act up only when cold (or hot) for sure and that's a cylinder-specific thing too - although sometimes for whatever reason some general flaw will show up only on 1 cylinder because that's the 'low spot' for some arbitrary reason...
2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)
Former:
1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)
I would focus on the injector or the rings.
As I said earlier,swap injectors to confirm.
You can also try this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vo4fm0JDPY
Oh yeah good point about the rings. The three liter M54 is known for gunking up the rings. If the rings are sticking they'll show up as low compression too. At that point squirt some oil down the spark plug tube and test again. If the compression comes up it's probably your rings, if it doesn't it's time for further investigation.
I ran into a similar problem. I never got to the fix suggested, but with mine at least it only does it if I let it idle or drive off very slowly. Moderate to brisk acceleration will clear it up. It's a little long, but check this thread. 525 not 530 but engine management is pretty much the same.
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...-start-P-codes
98 328is
02 525ita
80 528i
81 528ia
and decades of owning and driving BMWs
Never heard of a sticky lifter causing a CEL on these engines before
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I will check it these days... i will swap injectors spark plugs and coils to see if error moves to another cylinder.. Afterwards i will let it cool down and do a compression test.
Unfortunately today when I went away from work- the first 4 seconds of the cold start a “tick tick tick tick” could be heard..i went out and opened the hood and listened to it- sound stopped no abnormal sound
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e39 520i ´99, shifter 5+1
Modifications done:
M54B30 swap
Powerflex rear subframe bushings
Koni Yellow + Vogtland springs
Short Shifter
K&N Panel Air Filter
Custom 2.5 Exhaust + Magnaflow free flow Mufflers
Alpina Rims
Facelift Head & Tail/lights
Alpina Green II color
Android Navigation
Morel Virtus 502 + Morel Maximus 502 + Audison LRX 6.9 Amp + Mosconi 4to6DSP
Well, if you do have a ticking... and it goes away quickly as engine warms up... I will admit... yep could be sticky lifter. I'd be inclined to try some engine flush quick-fix attempt before pulling the valvetrain tho'. I've used Liquimoly Engine Flush with good results before (not on an M54 for stuck lifters mind you, but for general devarnishing and cleanup...) - maybe give that a try. Only cost is for the flush product + an oil change. And what kind of oil is in the car? If its either a cheap oil, or too light a grade, then just going to a slightly heavier high quality synthetic might make a difference too....
The other thing I'd be wondering about would be VANOS but I'd try the flush/oil-change/different-oil route first.
2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)
Former:
1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)
Agreed that a ticking that goes away could be a lifter, but I'd still want to see low compression before going down that route.
Idk what oil was used before... now i am using castrol edge 5w40 edge titanium... oil is around 3500km old. should i go for 0W40? In order for it to be less viscous when cold?
I will do the engine flush soon, in around 1500km
Ps: that tick appeared only that one time. Today in the morning and evening it didn’t do it...
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e39 520i ´99, shifter 5+1
Modifications done:
M54B30 swap
Powerflex rear subframe bushings
Koni Yellow + Vogtland springs
Short Shifter
K&N Panel Air Filter
Custom 2.5 Exhaust + Magnaflow free flow Mufflers
Alpina Rims
Facelift Head & Tail/lights
Alpina Green II color
Android Navigation
Morel Virtus 502 + Morel Maximus 502 + Audison LRX 6.9 Amp + Mosconi 4to6DSP
mmm. 5W40 should be fine... When we say 'sticky lifter' we really mean that lifter leaks down while parked, which is why I suggested to try heavier to see if that pumps the lifter up faster / less leaking. Might keep scanning the car and see if the misfires correspond to the times you hear the ticktick.
2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)
Former:
1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)
Well my thought was: it only happens when i leave it for long times- let’s say 4-5 hours at least. I thought: it was normal for the lifter to be drained of oil, no matter the oil viscosity during such a time. But if the oil is less viscous when cold- the lifters should get filled more easily. And then when the temperature gets hotter- it is ok anyway now, so no reason to change the viscosity when hot. Or is my logic line wrong?
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e39 520i ´99, shifter 5+1
Modifications done:
M54B30 swap
Powerflex rear subframe bushings
Koni Yellow + Vogtland springs
Short Shifter
K&N Panel Air Filter
Custom 2.5 Exhaust + Magnaflow free flow Mufflers
Alpina Rims
Facelift Head & Tail/lights
Alpina Green II color
Android Navigation
Morel Virtus 502 + Morel Maximus 502 + Audison LRX 6.9 Amp + Mosconi 4to6DSP
Back in Volvo land and their first engine with hydraulic lifters you would see issues where short trips would cause the lifters to stick enough to cause a no-start. On both of my sixes short trips will cause a really gnarly idle so I'm assuming similar problems with fuel contamination or something. In either case a compression check is way easier than replacing a lifter (no matter how cheap the lifters actually are). If the cold compression is OK then I'd move on to something else. If the compression is lower than the other cylinders then I'd start digging into whatever else.
Update:
Today I swapped the coil from cylinder 3 to cylinder 1, changed all spark plugs with new ones (even if those in it had about 8k kms lifetime), and did a cold compression test.
The compression test showed values in the range 12.5-12.9 bar for all 6 cylinders. And cylinder 3 (the one that was misfiring) was like 12.7 or anyhow somewhere in-between that range. So I guess compression should be fine, as I guess these are good values especially for a cold test.
Now i had some error codes but tbh I didn’t notice when they appeared- and i said maybe they appeared during the compression test (cyl 3 missfire was recorded and cyl 4 missfire). So I erased them and now i will check tomorrow morning when the engine will be cold again what is happening.
- If error will move on cyl 1- then it is for sure the coil.
- If it would stay on the same cylinder (number 3) - i will get the injectors for a test and cleaning.
- if error will persist afterwards - first i will change the CCV system (i guess anyhow it is a good idea for a 150k miles engine
- if error still persists- i will get a leak down tester from ebay and use it. If something unusual pops up- i will clean the lifters
- if not-> will change vanos seals and get those “anti-rattle” kits (again I guess this is a good idea for an old engine)
If after all this it still persists-> well i will be out of ideas.
I know there are more ideas gathered here, but people with the right amount of knowledge and tools are hard to be found here near me.. and I hope I have made up a pretty good plan according to the answers here, or?
But... let’s wait till tomorrow morning maybe the error magically goes away and then i can proudly say- it was the spark plugs.
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e39 520i ´99, shifter 5+1
Modifications done:
M54B30 swap
Powerflex rear subframe bushings
Koni Yellow + Vogtland springs
Short Shifter
K&N Panel Air Filter
Custom 2.5 Exhaust + Magnaflow free flow Mufflers
Alpina Rims
Facelift Head & Tail/lights
Alpina Green II color
Android Navigation
Morel Virtus 502 + Morel Maximus 502 + Audison LRX 6.9 Amp + Mosconi 4to6DSP
Well I've outlined where I'd be looking, so no I wouldn't agree with your list. I doubt it's a CCV or VANOS issue as it's a misfire specific to one cylinder. I'd strongly suggest testing stuff before swapping things at random or buying new parts. A scope would be very useful (but pricey), a multimeter (even one of the free ones from Harbor Freight, although you're not in the US) and test light (or a light bulb and some wire) will get you most of the way there.
If the misfire doesn't move to a different cylinder I'd take a look at the rest of the ignition stuff before suspecting fuel - especially as the DME may cut fuel to a cylinder with a misfire. An easy check of the injectors is to check the resistance across the pins of each injector.
I know this is a bit old now, but was there ever a resolution to this?
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