Next up, remote start for the touring.

[demetk]

Car: 2001 525it

I've been reading up on what it will take to install a remote start module into the touring and it seems that short of disabling EWS from the dme the easiest immobilizer bypass is to use a spare key and additional EWS antenna ring. Pretty sure this is something that I am capable of doing but wanted to get your advice on this. Can the second antenna ring simply be spliced into the existing antenna harness or is there some special wiring that needs to be done?

cheers

[StephenVA]

Park in the garage overnight and the challenge goes away.....

I think there is a tread on the M5 forum on this issue from others in the frozen rust belt. I have not seen one regarding wagon set ups.

[CPHES]

All remote start solutions are dodgy. Very hard to integrate after it left the factory. Like StephenVA said, put it in the garage.

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

Remote start in an E39, your opening up a can of worms man! Don’t do it.

[demetk]

Come on, it can't be that complicated. There is already a spot for the car in the garage as it's much to nice looking to let it freeze outside. But when traveling in the dead of winter wouldn't be wonderful if you could just press a tiny little button from as far away as 1500 feet and 5 minutes later to be able to step into a warm car and slide into even warmer seats? If nobody has done this then it's just

[StephenVA]

No it would not especially after it fries itself. The best example of "i got to have a remote starter system" was the idiot who demoed his Lambo at a auction, while it was in gear. Backed into another car in the sales line before he could stop the process. OOPSIE my error.....

[demetk]

No it would not especially after it fries itself. The best example of "i got to have a remote starter system" was the idiot who demoed his Lambo at a auction, while it was in gear. Backed into another car in the sales line before he could stop the process. OOPSIE my error.....

I guess his installer was also an idiot since apparently he doesn't know how to read. If he could read, he would have known about the manual transmission mode programming option.

Something about Lambo owners that seems to run common. I saw a vid of a Lambo continuously being revved to red line at a stop light, presumably to impress passersby. They were even more impressed when the engine suddenly caught fire and eventually the car burned to the ground.

[JimLev]

Check with some local installers and see what they offer.
I put a few remote starts in cars in the past, not my 540.
The wiring was not for the faint of heart, the newer systems are suppose to be easier.
Some heat or AC before you get in the car is nice.

[demetk]

I'm going to research the pertinent body side wiring a little bit before taking the dash apart once again. I already have a remote start module that I am familiar with to test with. The only hurdle at this point for me is the necessity of a programmed transponder key and how the EWS system uses rolling codes in the start sequence. Anyone interested in the EWS system can find my copy of it here, https://drive.google.com/file/d/1md3...ew?usp=sharing. If there's a newer version with more information, please share.

I'll do a test by using a separate ring antenna and a working key and progress from there. As my mommy used to say, small moves boy, small moves. Once I get my new xtrons radio fully up and running I'll look into remote start units that can be triggered via cell phone.

Any comments are more than welcome.

cheers

[geargrinder]

Yeah.. This is generally a crap idea. Yes it can be made to work, but you really need a system that is made for BMW immob systems and includes the secret key box blah blah that sits behind the dash.

The way they work is:

• Factory ring antenna wire is intercepted and the new box with a ring antenna and an authorized key locked inside it is spliced into the line
• The other start/run key wires are also intercepted to run to the remote start system
• The drivers door manual key unlock / disarm wire has to be intercepted, and I believe also the center lock button
• When you trigger the start system...
  
  1. It signals to the GM to disarm the car, then trigger the center lock button to fake somebody getting in the car (then relocking it so the neighbors don't jump in and throw it into gear...)
  2. It switches the ring antenna over to the hidden key antenna which reads the hidden key, makes EWS think a real key is in the real ignition,
  3. Then other relays turn the ignition on and fires the starter trigger wire
  
  
• When the system is not in use the factory ring antenna works as normal and hopefully all the other goddamn intercepted hacked up wires dont come lose or short out or cause other problems.

Issues with them are... a ton of wires need to be intercepted, the car lock/alarm system also has to be intercepted and hacked into (the GM module normally has to tell the EWS that the car is disarmed in order to start) and create potential for problems and lockouts and/or failures to lock... it means a real proper key is stored in the car at all times so if someone was to reach up in the dash and tear the crap out they'd have a real key to the car... Generally they are just a giant mass of wiring hackery required. You need the key box to be radio proof so that during normal starting the factory ring antenna is not confused by 'seeing' the stashed key, you need to ensure the stashed ring/key are turned off when locking the car, otherwise the factory GM won't lock the car due to thinking "oh, dumbass has left the key in the ignition so I won't let him do that!")

For 'developmental' reasons unrelated to remote start, I ran a stashed key in the dash for a short temporary period and I can tell you even just that was a PITA with the locking and whatnot.

If you want to homebrew this without a pre-made kit with EWS antenna/box/etc/etc and using a 'basic remote start' piece of crap kit that would work on a 1975 Ford pickup, then the only way I'd see as being reasonable would be completely disable EWS.

You'd need to fully delete EWS in the DME, then rewire starter trigger directly to the ignition switch and your remote starter junk. And in process you'd lose any immob functionality and locking/alarm integration completely... You'd have to unlock the car remotely, hit your remote starter, then relock it. Even so it'd be a mess.

But hey - fun idea, good luck!

[demetk]

I tend to come up with lots of crap ideas. They haven't deterred me yet from making stuff work. I'll check it out.

[geargrinder]

I tend to come up with lots of crap ideas. They haven't deterred me yet from making stuff work. I'll check it out.

Ha ha ... Can't fault your attitude at least!

[demetk]

Ha ha ... Can't fault your attitude at least!

I'll take that as a compliment. I look at things this way. I have an idea of what I would like to accomplish but starting off I may lack the either the requisite knowledge and/or the necessary skills to accomplish something - at least not yet. The knowledge can be acquired because the information is out there and it is well known. You just need to be able to find it. And the necessary skills sets that are required for a particular project can be built. Many others have done it and I have enough experience under my belt to be confident in that I will be able to do so also. I've been programming computers all my life. Granted I have used higher level languages to do so but microcontroller programming is still just programming, and that is also well known. Like Mark Watney said in The Martian "Hexadecimals to the rescue".

cheers

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"When you make a thing, a thing that is new, it is so complicated making it that it is bound to be ugly. But those that make it after you, they don’t have to worry about making it. And they can make it pretty, and so everybody can like it when others make it after you."

- Pablo Picasso

[geargrinder]

"When you make a thing, a thing that is new, it is so complicated making it that it is bound to be ugly. But those that make it after you, they don’t have to worry about making it. And they can make it pretty, and so everybody can like it when others make it after you."

- Pablo Picasso

Um. Yeah. No.

Thats about the biggest backasswords application of a brilliant quotation as I've ever seen. "I'm like Pablo Picasso when I hack up the wiring in my car to make a hacked up homebrew remote start that copies something that can be bought off the shelf...." errrrr..... OK. No.

Build your own electric car from scratch, maybe you can go tossing that quote around. YOU are actually going to be COPYING things that actually exist.

YOU are more like the guy that tries to copy the Mona Lisa but it ends up looking like a pigs butt.

And this stuff isn't exactly "The Knowledge". Its just a sh1t-ton of wire splicing and relays. Virtually no advantage to homebrewing this by the way. If you really want this you should just buy a BMW-compatible setup and splice it in, and then invest your time on something where "The Knowledge" is more useful and interesting and productive.

[demetk]

Oh wow. Ok then. You know best geargrinder.

[geargrinder]

Oh wow. Ok then. You know best geargrinder.

glad we are on the same page now!

[JimLev]

I tend to come up with lots of crap ideas. They haven't deterred me yet from making stuff work. I'll check it out.

Don't let the geargrinders syncros from chewing up your idea. I'd check to see if there are off the shelf remote starts for your car before you start hacking up the wiring.
It's just a bunch of wires. Just make sure you label all of them and take pics before you start so if things don't work out you will know what was hooked to what.


Engine re-wiring
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[demetk]

glad we are on the same page now!

You think?

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Don't let the geargrinders syncros from chewing up your idea. I'd check to see if there are off the shelf remote starts for your car before you start hacking up the wiring.
It's just a bunch of wires. Just make sure you label all of them and take pics before you start so if things don't work out you will know what was hooked to what.

Thanks Jim.

[djb2]

I can address the narrow part of the transponder.

You cannot parallel a second transponder reading coil. The circuit is tuned to support only a single coil.

You only need a 'coffin' transponder, not a full key, under the dash.

Relocating a coil beneath the dash means that a factory diamond key won't recharge the remote unlock battery while driving. Of course you have presumably eliminated the need for it.

[geargrinder]

dj the way the commercial products make it work is not parallel but splice in the 2nd on an A/B switching circuit. Normally the factory ring works and is electrically 100% factory. When the remote start kicks in is the only time the 2nd coil is activated and that is when the stock one gets switched out.

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And your correct you only need the transponder chip but the way it’s done is usually a box that holds a full key. Because the car stereo/remote starter/junky accessory industry tends to not have the ability to burn immob chips and activate them in BMW EWS.

Theres pix someplace of the rats nest and key-holder antenna box some guy ripped out of a car...

[demetk]

I can address the narrow part of the transponder.

You cannot parallel a second transponder reading coil. The circuit is tuned to support only a single coil.

You only need a 'coffin' transponder, not a full key, under the dash.

Relocating a coil beneath the dash means that a factory diamond key won't recharge the remote unlock battery while driving. Of course you have presumably eliminated the need for it.

Thanks djb2. I'm going to try to use the DEI 556U immobilizer interface module. Others have used it successfully so I don't see why it won't work in the e39. From the wiring diagrams, it looks like it can be used in non-parallel mode like you mentioned. If it works then I will still be able to retain the use of the factory antenna in it's original place on the ignition tumbler and the EWS security. I already have a ebay key blank with the chip. I'm waiting on the programmer to be able to add it to the EWS module.

[Akash3230]

I have installed the rs in my 540 2000. It took some time but was was time consuming. I also used a universal key transponder with a secondary antenna for the ews to recognize. For the door locks i ran a positive trigger to the door lock switch in the middle. I had installed a viper unit in the car and it still works after 4 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[geargrinder]

Thanks djb2. I'm going to try to use the DEI 556U immobilizer interface module. Others have used it successfully so I don't see why it won't work in the e39. From the wiring diagrams, it looks like it can be used in non-parallel mode like you mentioned. If it works then I will still be able to retain the use of the factory antenna in it's original place on the ignition tumbler and the EWS security. I already have a ebay key blank with the chip. I'm waiting on the programmer to be able to add it to the EWS module.

That's what I've been saying all along, if you have to do this, don't homebrew it, just buy the stuff that's already made and tailored to interface w/ the factory stuff. Using an ebay blank /w coffin chip is a good call too, as long as you're committed to getting the R270+ or whatever to program it.

I would say also using either a blank like that, or, a bare chip glued inside the ring takes away the issue of leaving a fully activated physical starting key in the car, so it takes away at least one of the lesser downsides of these rats-nest things... If somebody gets access to the inside of the car and reaches up behind the dash, there won't be anything there that would let them just drive the car away...

[demetk]

That's what I've been saying all along, if you have to do this, don't homebrew it, just buy the stuff that's already made and tailored to interface w/ the factory stuff. Using an ebay blank /w coffin chip is a good call too, as long as you're committed to getting the R270+ or whatever to program it.

I would say also using either a blank like that, or, a bare chip glued inside the ring takes away the issue of leaving a fully activated physical starting key in the car, so it takes away at least one of the lesser downsides of these rats-nest things... If somebody gets access to the inside of the car and reaches up behind the dash, there won't be anything there that would let them just drive the car away...

Glad we're on the same page. I'm going to use this key programmer. Hopefully it will work. I need to get a another working key made as I only have one key right now.



I wonder if I could rig up some type of key cutter with two dremels.

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I have installed the rs in my 540 2000. It took some time but was was time consuming. I also used a universal key transponder with a secondary antenna for the ews to recognize. For the door locks i ran a positive trigger to the door lock switch in the middle. I had installed a viper unit in the car and it still works after 4 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is encouraging, thanks. How does the lock button pop out? Do you pop the entire top cover of the center console to get to the wiring?

[geargrinder]

I wonder if I could rig up some type of key cutter with two dremels.

Yes that's sure to work excellently!

Srsly any decent locksmith joint should be able to cut a blank for you... they'll whinge on about how its never going to work because of the immob programming but you should have that covered.

A really good place will read the key with a computer that then identifies the shape digitally, and then cuts the new key accordingly, aka the new one will be better than the old one which has worn. Definitely better than the tracer-cutter hardware-store type key making.