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Thread: Clutch Master Cylinder Upgrade?

  1. #1
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    Clutch Master Cylinder Upgrade?

    Does anyone know is there is an upgrade for the stock M3 clutch master cylinder?

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  2. #2
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    What are you looking to gain from it?


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  3. #3
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    You can run an 850il cylinder.

    Or swap over to the twindisk with the gs6, it’s night and day.


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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy2800 View Post
    What are you looking to gain from it?
    Believe I might of blew the clutch master cylinder...using a FX850 clutch with a hydraulic bearing...I dont see any leaks anywhere. You can exercise the clutch but as soon as you hold it down for a sec it stays to the floor. You can hear the clutch disengaging while its pressed in but then it goes back on its own still while the pedal is down. Then the pedal stays down.

    Quote Originally Posted by vollosso View Post
    You can run an 850il cylinder.

    Or swap over to the twindisk with the gs6, it’s night and day.


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    Tell me more about the 850il CMC?
    Last edited by NY98M3; 09-18-2018 at 09:27 AM.

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  5. #5
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    Might be a dumb question but does your car have a CDV?

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    He joined a month before you in 2002. I bet NY98M3 knows what a CDV is.

  7. #7
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    I see. Well he would also probably know that an 850 CMC wouldn't help either if that were the case. Likely a slave cylinder but in his situation that wouldn't be of any benefit with a hydraulic TB. Carry on.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iding SIII View Post
    Might be a dumb question but does your car have a CDV?
    no it does not

    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    He joined a month before you in 2002. I bet NY98M3 knows what a CDV is.
    Im an old man lol

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  9. #9
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    If it’s a fairly fresh master as opposed to a 20 year old one, he may have blown it with the hydraulic TOB conversion. It probably takes some trial and error on line size and SMC size and pedal trace to set up perfectly for a particular clutch and the research may not exist for these parts on an E36M3. If he did blow a fresher SMC, changing the pedal stop might be easiest part to experiment with.

  10. #10
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    I don't know if I would call it an upgrade but I went with the aluminum master to replace the plastic one because I will also be using a hydraulic TOB.
    Last edited by Iding SIII; 09-21-2018 at 01:46 PM.

  11. #11
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    In for info

    I also have a hydraulic TOB and clutchmasters 725 twin disc (LOVE IT) and have been chasing weird disengagement issues for a while. I've replaced the master twice, both OEM aluminum units and at this point I kinda get the feeling that the OEM master just can't handle the forces of the twin disc? Issues I have are inconsistent disengagement/engagement point where the clutch will grab at different levels. I usually have to use my toe to pull the pedal all the way out an additional ~1/4" to get proper operation. Thinking of using a small spring to help me do that... still irritating and I've been bouncing the idea of an aftermarket MC in my head even if it required modifying the pedal bracket to mount. This way I could also choose the MC size for a lighter pedal and a bit more travel.


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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpalella View Post
    In for info

    I also have a hydraulic TOB and clutchmasters 725 twin disc (LOVE IT) and have been chasing weird disengagement issues for a while. I've replaced the master twice, both OEM aluminum units and at this point I kinda get the feeling that the OEM master just can't handle the forces of the twin disc? Issues I have are inconsistent disengagement/engagement point where the clutch will grab at different levels. I usually have to use my toe to pull the pedal all the way out an additional ~1/4" to get proper operation. Thinking of using a small spring to help me do that... still irritating and I've been bouncing the idea of an aftermarket MC in my head even if it required modifying the pedal bracket to mount. This way I could also choose the MC size for a lighter pedal and a bit more travel.
    Excellent info you've provided. I saw these images floating around a while ago on the Facebook pages of one guy who modified the pedal assembly to use a Wilwood MC but thought it would be overkill. After hearing of your issues I'll probably remove my pedal assembly and do something similar with the Wilwood compact remote side mount master cylinder 260-12387. The piston stroke length is almost identical to OEM but I'll have to figure out the correct bore size. Might contact Clutchmasters to see what they recommend.



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpalella View Post
    I also have a hydraulic TOB and clutchmasters 725 twin disc (LOVE IT) and have been chasing weird disengagement issues for a while. I've replaced the master twice, both OEM aluminum units and at this point I kinda get the feeling that the OEM master just can't handle the forces of the twin disc?
    Do you think the hydraulic TOB is causing the issue or the twin disc or the forces of the twin disc? Do the many people with the UUC twin and standard slave piston fork pivot have issues - I recall complaints but not sure the subject matter is the same. BMW used a twin disc on the E90M3 with standard slave piston. Maybe that master could work? Obviously that is a twin organic with less clamping force. A twin 7.25 might also need more clamping force than a twin 8.5 to hold the same power.

  14. #14
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    deleted
    Last edited by wanganstyle; 03-02-2021 at 03:14 PM.
    Wanganstyle Powertrain
    http://www.wanganstyle.com/

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    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1437471

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iding SIII View Post
    Excellent info you've provided. I saw these images floating around a while ago on the Facebook pages of one guy who modified the pedal assembly to use a Wilwood MC but thought it would be overkill. After hearing of your issues I'll probably remove my pedal assembly and do something similar with the Wilwood compact remote side mount master cylinder 260-12387. The piston stroke length is almost identical to OEM but I'll have to figure out the correct bore size. Might contact Clutchmasters to see what they recommend.
    This is interesting! Thanks for the photos. E30 pedal bracket is a little easier to work on since it's steel I can just bend and weld whatever bracket is necessary. Good idea to call clutchmasters

    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    Do you think the hydraulic TOB is causing the issue or the twin disc or the forces of the twin disc? Do the many people with the UUC twin and standard slave piston fork pivot have issues - I recall complaints but not sure the subject matter is the same. BMW used a twin disc on the E90M3 with standard slave piston. Maybe that master could work? Obviously that is a twin organic with less clamping force. A twin 7.25 might also need more clamping force than a twin 8.5 to hold the same power.
    Don't think it's the hydraulic tob. I had nearly the same issues before I installed it and was using the regular pivot fork and tob. The clutch itself is definitely a factor. It's stiffer than oem by like a factor of 3 or 4. Also has a super short engagement/stroke. Like 1"-2"
    Quote Originally Posted by wanganstyle View Post
    the master cylinder from a e32/34 735i-5 and 535i-5 speed looks really similar to the e36 and e30 physically, its also metal. might be larger bore
    just looked it up, at least for me it's no change. Still a 19.5mm same as what's already in my e30


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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpalella View Post
    In for info

    I also have a hydraulic TOB and clutchmasters 725 twin disc (LOVE IT) and have been chasing weird disengagement issues for a while. I've replaced the master twice, both OEM aluminum units and at this point I kinda get the feeling that the OEM master just can't handle the forces of the twin disc? Issues I have are inconsistent disengagement/engagement point where the clutch will grab at different levels. I usually have to use my toe to pull the pedal all the way out an additional ~1/4" to get proper operation. Thinking of using a small spring to help me do that... still irritating and I've been bouncing the idea of an aftermarket MC in my head even if it required modifying the pedal bracket to mount. This way I could also choose the MC size for a lighter pedal and a bit more travel.
    Do you find that the pedal has no pressure on it until about 1/4 the way down? I found my issue but was wondering if yours had the same feel.

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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    Do you think the hydraulic TOB is causing the issue or the twin disc or the forces of the twin disc? Do the A twin 7.25 might also need more clamping force than a twin 8.5 to hold the same power.
    Good news for you is you don’t have any of these issues and similar holding force! Did you install that clutch kit yet?!

    It’s funny the way clutches work, the 725 has lesser area meaning it needs less pressure or less clamping force to create the same holding capacity. But since it’s smaller you have less diaphragm to use as a lever and so the pedal force goes up! Even though the diaphragm is either the same clamping or less clamping for similar capacity!


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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY98M3 View Post
    Do you find that the pedal has no pressure on it until about 1/4 the way down? I found my issue but was wondering if yours had the same feel.
    How is the pedal effort past that 1/4 way point?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iding SIII View Post
    How is the pedal effort past that 1/4 way point?
    feels fine, had to make a longer pedal stop to it doesn't overstroke

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY98M3 View Post
    feels fine, had to make a longer pedal stop to it doesn't overstroke
    Thanks, good info I'll probably order a master with a slightly smaller bore size to increase pedal travel.

  21. #21
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    NY98M3, did you end up trying a Wilwood master cylinder?

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  22. #22
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    +1 Would also like to know about the wilwood cylinder..

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3literheater View Post
    NY98M3, did you end up trying a Wilwood master cylinder?
    Quote Originally Posted by E36KDrift View Post
    +1 Would also like to know about the wilwood cylinder..
    no I didnt...it ended up be a small leak on the AN fitting in the bell housing.

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  24. #24
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    All this talk about hydraulic release bearings: are we talking about the Clutchmasters kit? Anyone have any issues with the actual release bearing kit/parts? Works as advertised? I need one for my build for clearance reasons. My trans is moved back in the chassis about 1 1/2" and now the trans tunnel isn't wide enough to clear the clutch slave. Rather than BFH mods, I thought this would be a more elegant solution. My clutch would be the FX350 at worst. I'm only looking to hold 400-450 ft/lbs max.

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