possible motor swap

[JustAnotherDude]

I have a 2000 528i (75k miles and 5 sp) I'm swapping fenders, bumpers and hood from a 2003 530i (123k and auto) onto to get it road-worthy again. I'm toying with keeping the 3.0 and maybe building it up down the road. Question I have is, will the 3.0 run correctly on the 528i DME? If it would work I know a proper tune would be necessary for best performance but to start, run and drive initially, would the older DME work?

[effduration]

If the current engine (m52TU) in the 528i runs...keep it as is. If it doesn't run, you can consider it. There are a few reports of people installing the 3.0 M54 engine in a '99-00 528i, but only a few. The big difference is with the intake and throttle body which is different between 528i and 530i. The one successful swap I remember used the plate linked below to connect the M52TU throttle body to the M54 intake and install the complete M54 engine into a '00 528i. If i remember, the engine ran fine with the 528i DME, but would not be optimized for the the 3.0 liter.

search the forums on this topic.

https://turnermotorsport.com/p-4306-...take-manifold/

[Coupenut]

There's a gentleman named Malachi Hernandez in the Facebook BMW E39/5 series group who says he's made the swap described in the original post. He says that all that's required to make this work is the swap of the M52 intake onto the M54 engine. No coding or ECU work required.
I'm seriously considering this swap on my 99 528iT in the next month or so.

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[BimmerBreaker]

It's not too hard to swap the M54 engines into M52TU powered cars, but coding will be required... it might run on the original DME, but it will not run properly without a tune. It doesn't need a crazy custom tune but the M54 3.0 tune files should be flashed onto the M52TU computer. VANOS and DISA will not operate at the ideal ranges if not tuned properly, nor will timing be correct. Swapping the M52TU intake onto the M54 would be a weird way to do swap the engines. I have heard of some using adapters for the throttle bodies... but swapping the intake manifold itself would be a performance downgrade (M52TU guys upgrade to the M54 intake manifolds...)

[Coupenut]

It's not too hard to swap the M54 engines into M52TU powered cars, but coding will be required... it might run on the original DME, but it will not run properly without a tune. It doesn't need a crazy custom tune but the M54 3.0 tune files should be flashed onto the M52TU computer. VANOS and DISA will not operate at the ideal ranges if not tuned properly, nor will timing be correct. Swapping the M52TU intake onto the M54 would be a weird way to do swap the engines. I have heard of some using adapters for the throttle bodies... but swapping the intake manifold itself would be a performance downgrade (M52TU guys upgrade to the M54 intake manifolds...)

I'm only relaying what the man says he's done. He claims more power, 25 mpg, with no coding or DME swap, just the intake swap.

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[djb2]

Don't forget the reason for keeping the original throttle, and thus the original DME: the M52tu has a mechanical throttle cable, the M54 uses an electronic pedal.

It's going to be a low-reward hassle changing the pedal and figuring out the wiring harness

[Coupenut]

Don't forget the reason for keeping the original throttle, and thus the original DME: the M52tu has a mechanical throttle cable, the M54 uses an electronic pedal.

It's going to be a low-reward hassle changing the pedal and figuring out the wiring harness

Yes, that's my understanding as well.

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[BimmerBreaker]

Don't forget the reason for keeping the original throttle, and thus the original DME: the M52tu has a mechanical throttle cable, the M54 uses an electronic pedal.

It's going to be a low-reward hassle changing the pedal and figuring out the wiring harness

The M52TU is electronically actuated. There is a mechanical cable present, but it acts solely as a backup. BMW transitioned from mechanical throttles to electronic throttles with the M52TU engine. Its an odd setup where its a cable actuated potentiometer (later DBW systems the pedal actuates the potentiometer directly), but if the electronic part (EML system) fails, it will function with the cable.

I also did say to adapt the M52TU throttle body though as that is the easier way to do it. The incorrect way mentioned earlier was to put the M52TU intake manifold on the M54 which is pointless. They make adapters to mount the M52TU throttle bodies to M54 manifolds.

[geargrinder]

Yeah. These swap propositions always get confusing with the 'what exactly are we talking about here'. Basically the DME needs to stick with the accessories.

Option 1. You can stick the M54 block under the M52TU accessories including DME. It'll be less work sorta... but also really questionable gains. Only sorta less work because you might have less wiring work but do you have to swap bolt-ons from the 52 to the 54 so they all plug in correctly. A little bit pointless exercise IMO unless its really your only option.

OK so Option 1B is you use some of the 530 stuff like intake plenum but hybridize it as above to leverage the M54B30's bigger breathing parts, but again, questionable gains without tuning etc.

Option 2. You swap the whole M54 into the car with DME and make it a 530. Somewhat more work (wiring and pedal), but then you have a proper 530. If you are just buying parts a la carte this option is a drag but if you have a whole parts car that can be fully torn down sitting there then this is not a terrible way to go. Nice thing about I6 DME's is they 'auto detect' auto/manual swaps so there's no need to reflash the DME even though its from an auto car. There is the EWS / key issue to be sorted so you need to decide which way to go w/ that (swap EWS and all locks over from 530, or, leave 528 EWS in it and EWS-delete the M54 DME...)

My take is as somebody else said - if there's nothing really wrong w/ the 2.8 motor then leave it, lot of work for not huge results either way.

[Coupenut]

Yeah. These swap propositions always get confusing with the 'what exactly are we talking about here'. Basically the DME needs to stick with the accessories.

Option 1. You can stick the M54 block under the M52TU accessories including DME. It'll be less work sorta... but also really questionable gains. Only sorta less work because you might have less wiring work but do you have to swap bolt-ons from the 52 to the 54 so they all plug in correctly. A little bit pointless exercise IMO unless its really your only option.

OK so Option 1B is you use some of the 530 stuff like intake plenum but hybridize it as above to leverage the M54B30's bigger breathing parts, but again, questionable gains without tuning etc.

Option 2. You swap the whole M54 into the car with DME and make it a 530. Somewhat more work (wiring and pedal), but then you have a proper 530. If you are just buying parts a la carte this option is a drag but if you have a whole parts car that can be fully torn down sitting there then this is not a terrible way to go. Nice thing about I6 DME's is they 'auto detect' auto/manual swaps so there's no need to reflash the DME even though its from an auto car. There is the EWS / key issue to be sorted so you need to decide which way to go w/ that (swap EWS and all locks over from 530, or, leave 528 EWS in it and EWS-delete the M54 DME...)

My take is as somebody else said - if there's nothing really wrong w/ the 2.8 motor then leave it, lot of work for not huge results either way.

In my case I've got a blown head gasket, I wouldn't be considering this otherwise.

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[BimmerBreaker]

OK so Option 1B is you use some of the 530 stuff like intake plenum but hybridize it as above to leverage the M54B30's bigger breathing parts, but again, questionable gains without tuning etc.

You can tune the M52TU DME to run the M54 properly with all proper functions. That would be the ideal setup IMO, there would be no compromise on engine performance - still has original hardware with the M54 intake manifold, software will be modified to have correct timing/VANOS maps, so no loss in performance at all. And much easier than swapping in a 530 DME and coding the EWS and everything to place nicely.

Really no reason to do a "full" swap when going M52TU to M54, because they are so close. Its a bit like going from M54B525 to M54B30 - the engines are close enough that you can run the 3.0 on the stock 2.5 computer, and you can flash the 2.5 computer with the 3.0 maps to make it perform just like a native 3.0 - same thing in this case with the M52TU to M54 swap

[Coupenut]

You can tune the M52TU DME to run the M54 properly with all proper functions. That would be the ideal setup IMO, there would be no compromise on engine performance - still has original hardware with the M54 intake manifold, software will be modified to have correct timing/VANOS maps, so no loss in performance at all. And much easier than swapping in a 530 DME and coding the EWS and everything to place nicely.

Really no reason to do a "full" swap when going M52TU to M54, because they are so close. Its a bit like going from M54B525 to M54B30 - the engines are close enough that you can run the 3.0 on the stock 2.5 computer, and you can flash the 2.5 computer with the 3.0 maps to make it perform just like a native 3.0 - same thing in this case with the M52TU to M54 swap

Interesting. So if I understand you correctly I could swap in the M54 (with the appropriate adapter plate for the M52tu throttle body) and flash the M52tu DME to M54 specs?
Thanks for the feedback, it's greatly appreciated.

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[BimmerBreaker]

Correct

You don't just copy/paste the M54 files, but a smart tuner can look at the files and replicate the M54 settings in the M52TU DME (ie. when DISA triggers, when/how VANOS operates, etc).
Think depending on the year it may need to be tuned to accept the different CPS signals first. I did a lot of research on this awhile ago but haven't delved too deeply into it recently. Think you can also use the M52TU sensors in the M54 to make it a bit easier

Few ways to skin that cat...

[geargrinder]

Yeah don't be mislead that you can copy paste the tunes. Its far from that... I'd look for a tuner that has this sorted out already. Graham is making it sound a little easier than it is IMO.

Actually... I'd bet you that the 3.0L block under the stock 2.8 gear will probably run pretty close to just fine without a tune.

We did a sorta-reverse last year on my buds car - stuck an M52TUB28 motor under the M54B25 critical accessories - and it runs absolutely fine w/ the 2.5L M54 DME. He's talked about getting the tune tweaked to maybe take advantage of the .3L extra but it runs fine and is kinda a daily beater anyway...

Personally I'd still just swap the whole M54 in w/ computer and all... but... to each his own.

[BimmerBreaker]

If he can align a new DME to the car's EWS, he should be able to figure out how to flash new tune files onto his existing DME. Finding those particular tune files shouldn't be too hard due to how common these swaps are, whereas aligning a DME to EWS can be a bit tricky. Ultimately he should do whatever he is comfortable with doing... but I would NOT swap the M52TU manifold onto the M54 like was being earlier discussed

The 3.0 will run on the 2.8TU computer, but won't be ideal. Certain years will also need certain sensors swapped but most of the time they are compatible and can run M52TU's on M54 DME's and vice versa. The M52TU is much closer to an M54 than to an M52 and the 2.8 is pretty close to the 3.0, but enough did change with the M54 tune that you'd feel a performance increase when running the M54 tune

Other things would ideally be changed too... there are a lot of options in the GM and other modules for the different engines. Just a matter of comparing what the 530 module reads vs. the 528 modules, and replicating the 530 stuff in the 528 modules. Not critical stuff, but stuff that would be nice to do right to make the swap complete. Calibration factors for the fuel gauges, mpg gauges, etc...

[Coupenut]

Great information here. I could just swap in another 2.8, but thought that if I do that I could go for the performance improvement that would come from the 3.0.
I'll probably go with whichever option presents itself first.

Thanks again.

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[geargrinder]

Ooops I confused OP and your stories... so you do not have the 3.0 in hand then... that's a different story. Man I really wouldn't bother. Find a 2.8, they seem like a dime a dozen these days... (that's why we stuck one under my buddies M54B25... he got a whole minorly wrecked 328i for next to nothing).

I'm gonna stick with "agree to disagree" w/ my friend Graham. I do not think there's loads of 3.0 blocks running under M52TU systems nor do I think its trivial to cook up a calibration to do it nor do I think there's loads of calibrations sitting around on the shelf for downloading. Reading/flashing tunes? Sure easy. Getting a calibration? Unless you point me to a file to download, I'm gonna stick to that's gonna be either hard (to make, unless you're already a tuner...) or some level of expensive (to pay a guy for).

Now if you really are committed to that - or got a B30 block for free - again - since I've worked absolutely first-hand on an M54B25 MS43 DME and seen it run without any re-tuning on an M52TUB28 block perfectly excellently - I am gonna say its a 90% chance that the M52TUB28 won't have much problem at ALL with an M54B30 block underneath it... so... if that absolutely had to be my approach, I'd plan to get it up and running on the stock M52TUB28 MS42 tune, and then from there see how it goes and if required work on the 'ideal re-tune' part of things.

To get it up and running in that config, you would want to be sure not to use the M54 MAF or injectors, because they'll throw the MS42 DME out of whack - you need to keep the M52TU stuff there. You can use the better M54 intake with the adapter parts, that shouldn't make any difference that isn't positive... BTW it is really all the inherent advantage of being MAF-driven systems that this works... as long as the input measurements (MAF, O2) and output controls (injectors) are properly setup, the systems can within reason adapt to the difference in flow... Down the line if you did get a re-tune you could then put the M54 stuff in if it was in any way advantageous although I doubt it'd make a huge difference. I think the 3.0 intake manifold is the big item thats desirable....

[effduration]

+1 on this...M52TU28 engines are cheap and plentiful, and the replacement is straightforward/plug and play w/possible exception of oil pan if it came from a 3-series or Z3 and pilot bearing if going to/from auto /manual. An M54B30 is none of those things.

Slap a tested/warrantied M52TU28 engine in and drive off with a smile.

[BimmerBreaker]

Man the E39 guys are no fun with this stuff are they? I've spent too much time around engine-swap-happy Z3 guys I guess

+1 on this...M52TU28 engines are cheap and plentiful, and the replacement is straightforward/plug and play w/possible exception of oil pan if it came from a 3-series or Z3 and pilot bearing if going to/from auto /manual. An M54B30 is none of those things.

Slap a tested/warrantied M52TU28 engine in and drive off with a smile.

He mentioned in his original post that he has an E39 530i he is taking other parts off of, so the M54 is entirely plug and play as far as engine fitment.

I double checked with a more knowledgable friend of mine and to be specific, you'd use the M54B30 complete engine with intake manifold, the M52TU injector rail with M54 purple injectors, M52TU throttle body (on M52TU to M54 adapter plate) and M52TU MAF. It will run on the native M52TU computer just like that.
It will run much better with a proper tune to replicate the M54B30 behavior. It does require a custom tuner, but not to the same extent as getting a tune after turbocharging an m52 for example. It's not too crazy of a job, the MS42 (M52TU) and MS43 (M54) both control the same parameters, notably the DISA and dual VANOS. To tune the MS42 properly merely requires setting the parameters to be the same as the M54B30 tune, so DISA activates at the same RPM, VANOS advances/retards at the same rate and timing maps are replicated. A little tedious sure but most basic tuners can do this, or at the very least, doesn't require paying a "proper" tuner big bucks. Guys who have done basic tuning on their own cars could help out with a job of this caliber, making friends in a local BMW facebook group should yield a few people who could help...

And maybe not a ton of cars running around with these swaps here, but it is a common enough swap elsewhere in the BMW world (E46 and Z3 guys do this swap pretty often) that there is an off the shelf adapter plate for the throttle body
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-turner-m...RoCsVUQAvD_BwE

No wrong way to do it really. I just wanted to clarify that the way I described is not really that difficult

[effduration]

I wasn't clear, but like GG who immediately preceded me, I was referring to Coupenut who does not have an M54B30 lying around.

As for the OP (Just Another Dude), I am not even sure his current M52TU28 is broken...It has 75k miles on it. As i stated in my first post, If OP has a running M52TU28 engine, I don't think he should swap into the M54 for the extra 30 horses (it's +30 only at 6000 RPM's btw), But that's only my opinion.