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Thread: E39 Won't start, EWS issue. DME swap possible?

  1. #51
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    Reset of the EWS-DME is only allowed when the transponder is recognized in the proper way, so it is no wonder that it did not work.

    What is more interesting is the behavior of the keys.

    Now there is not very much to do:
    1. Get a new ring antenna coil as its price is around USD 15, load the bin in the EWS, test and see. The antenna can also come from a friend's car for a test (any E38/39 after 3/97, any E46, E53, E83) but be careful when gerting it off. Also there is an o-ring under the ring antenna, do not forget to use it when installing the ring.

    2. Get another EWS with the same MCU mask, load the BIN file edited by me, put in the car, test and reset the EWS-DME code as with the previous attempt you reset the code and now it definitely is different. You can skip to this step if ELMOS chip in the EWS gets very hot after some time in ignition on.

    3. Transponders are vers very rare to fail unless it is the type used in genuine Diamond shaped keys, so programming a new transponder would most likely have no desired effect. You never know, but the probability is low.

    4. My last shot would be to check if you have nothing put on the antenna ring. Once I had a case of a Mini R50 acting like your car and after an hour of seeking the problem I fou d out that the lady had glued a Swarovski silver ring on the antenna. This piece of crap worked like a shield.

    All these suggestions are considering power and grounds to the EWS system to be checked.

    You also can try to get the transponder out of the key and try different positions and distances trom the ring antenna. If then it starts, I would say the EWS is shot rather than the antenna.
    Last edited by Fx323i; 10-08-2018 at 12:44 AM.

  2. #52
    geargrinder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fx323i View Post
    Once I had a case of a Mini R50 acting like your car and after an hour of seeking the problem I fou d out that the lady had glued a Swarovski silver ring on the antenna. This piece of crap worked like a shield.
    LOL.

    Yeah all this semi-random symptoms personally I'd be looking most closely at the EWS itself but the reminders about ground and power are always good ones.

    And - I always learn something new from Martin - I did not know the key had to be properly recognized for the EWS-DME sync to work. That of course seems 100% common-sense / completely logical that they'd design it that way but I had never thought about it in this context of a bad key problem. But it may explain some of OP's sequence-of-symptoms... maybe many of his "EWS-DME resets" were not really resetting due to the key in the ignition not being validated.
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  3. #53
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    It is weird. My cell phone definitely dislikes this forum. I made a reply like two days ago and it submitted by itself halfway of writing. When trying to edit, it got deleted. I clicked on edit and delete was selected instead. Weird.

    Anyway, I wanted to reply to Geargrinder:
    It is quite reasonable to allow the sync only when the proper key is recognized. Think of this - when programming a new ECU, it is in a virgin state. It means, it can get "married" to any EWS3 system. The process is quite the same like resync which you people advise almost all the time when it comes to the EWS issue. Without a working key the access to the data needed is restricted, that's it.

    With the newer CAS versions, especially some CAS3, the data from the key (or the ISN/ISK code from ECU) also serve as a key to decrypt the data from CAS. Then the rolling codes change and the data gets encrypted again. But this applies to some E90s etc, so I wouldn't make the topic even more confusing.

    I'd suggest to proceed from the simpliest to the hardest parts, so first I would check power supply to the EWS, see if the chips inside don't get unreasonably hot, and check the connection from EWS to the antenna ring. There are so many things that the previous owners could do to the system as an attempt to make the immobilization of the car even more tough... As the years come, I have seen many many things.

    For example, there was one guy with X5 E53 coming from Ukraine, who needed new tyres. So he parked the car at the parking lot of the tyre shop, went to order new tyres, and when he came back to the car, it would not start. After hours I found that the wire to the antenna ring was cut, the wires were only twisted by hand, running an extra circuit to the boot of the handbrake, where there was a switch disconnecting the antenna ring from the EWS. When he applied the handbrake, he accidentally touched the switch which was installed by the previous owner and he had no idea it was there.

    Sometimes the answers are quite simple, sometimes it is more difficult.
    Martin Voigts
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    1997 E36 318iS Sierrarot
    2012 Ford Mondeo

  4. #54
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    So, reporting back after some success on Sunday.

    I uploaded the .bin file that Martin supplied onto the EWS again and was able to get all the correct circles to light up in INPA for Key#0. Tried to start start and heard a click and the engine did not turn over. After that, the “DME line switched free” turned into a “no” and the key was invalid because of “changing code”. I tried to reupload the bin file and it still gave me that error.

    Luckily, the transponders I ordered arrived on Saturday. I programmed it to key position #4 (or #5 per INPA) and swapped out the transponder from key#1. I was able to get all the green lights in INPA and it cranked! The car didn’t start from all the old fuel that needs to be drain but at least now I have had my first access to fuel and spark in a long time! The cranking sounded healthy.

    So, of course I had some wishful thinking. I cranked it for like 5-10 seconds hoping that it would magically come to life. It did not, but it did bring about more EWS error, “invalid because of wrong changing code” “DME line switched free” turned into a “no” and the key was invalid because of “changing code” yet again. I was able to recover from this by uploading the same bin file after programing the new transponder. This error was probably brought on by the battery voltage dropping below the safe threshold for the EWS that caused this mess in the first place right? Time for a new battery maybe? Battery voltage read 12.65V (Bosch battery), and didn’t have an extra set of hands to read voltage while cranking.

    So next I decided to try having a go with the battery connected to a running car. I go and find out that the same EWS error came back again! And again I was able to rewrite the working bin file back to the EWS and get all the right signals from INPA. I tried cranking it for less than a second just to make sure it is working and called it a day.

    It made sense that the EWS error came from the drop in voltage from the long cranking (haven’t yet confirmed with a meter). But why would it cause an error when I connected it to another running car?

    Anyways, I’m glad that I was able to get this far. Lots of credit goes to both Martin and geargrinder! Could not have reached this point without guidance from you guys.

  5. #55
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    Hi Yun,
    I am glad to hear about some movement forward. I would check voltage and ground on the EWS connector directly now. You should measure battery voltage on pins 10 and 11 on the EWS and ground on pin 9 on the EWS. Also check the resistance between pins 5 and 12, these go to the ring antenna coil (resistance on new part is approx. 2.8 Ohms). Let us know about the results.
    EWS pins.png

    I need to repeat that the new transponders will not very probably cure your problem. Please, try to get other hands on and see the voltage drop when cranking. You do not need to get to the state with the EWS system working, the trick with fuse as you tried before would do the same. You need to see if the starter motor is not consuming too much on current.

    As the ground for EWS and many other things in your car is under the passenger side carpet, I would also try to see if there is no moisture, rust etc. and if the ground X10012 is good.
    ground.png

    I also would try to remove the antenna ring from the ignition switch and see if underneath it there is an o-ring. This o-ring was made of conductive material until 11/1995 and after then there was a recall on it and BMW replaced it with a non-conductive piece. This applies to EWS2 because EWS3 was introduced in 3/1997, but I would check if the o-ring is even installed and if not, I would try to start in a setup, where the antenna ring is not pressed on the ignition lock barrel, one key or transponder is attached to the ring and the other key is moved in the ignition lock barrel to start the car.
    Last edited by Fx323i; 10-16-2018 at 02:25 AM.
    Martin Voigts
    BMW cars indy and locksmith
    1997 E36 318iS Sierrarot
    2012 Ford Mondeo

  6. #56
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    Yeah I can't begin to offer as detailed advice as Martin but I agree 100% w his take which is something is still wrong w the car - very possiblity an intermittent connection to the EWS or ring antenna - and it isn't transponder caused.
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
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  7. #57
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    One more little thing. You don't necessarily need another hands when measuring the voltage. The secret menu in the cluster offers you voltage reading, too.
    Martin Voigts
    BMW cars indy and locksmith
    1997 E36 318iS Sierrarot
    2012 Ford Mondeo

  8. #58
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    Hi guys, what is the status of this topic? Was there any happy ending? Very important to get feedback how it went. I have EWS issues my self to sort out and this topic has been very helpful so far.

  9. #59
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    may i suggest starting a new thread on your topic. youd most likely get better and more directed help with the specific issues youre having

  10. #60
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    I was wondering about the same thing.
    I wanted to send Fx323i a message but I can't do it.
    I think my EWS module is dead. Although if I turn the key, the relay in it will click. I was wondering what do I need to get a EWS from scrap yard and code it to my car? Is it even possible?

  11. #61
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    its very possible. but why go thru all that without even knowing that your EWS is dead? time to get your hands on a copy of INPA, load it on your laptop, hook up the correct cable and troubleshoot. geargrinder i graciously authored this thread and left for all to use after a series of no start scenarios cropped up in close chronological proximity not too long ago.

    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...ends-are-wrong

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bmwe39528i1998 View Post
    I was wondering about the same thing.
    I wanted to send Fx323i a message but I can't do it.
    I think my EWS module is dead. Although if I turn the key, the relay in it will click. I was wondering what do I need to get a EWS from scrap yard and code it to my car? Is it even possible?

    you need an AK90 programmer to code your key to the EWS from the junk yard >>>>
    >>> then you need to virginize your DME
    then use INPA or PA Soft to sync the DME to the EWS
    #Profit
    Last edited by zarboz; 08-07-2019 at 10:04 PM.
    I like to pretend I know stuff

  13. #63
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    After scanning with INPA, turns out EWS module is fine, rather the keys are not being recognized by EWS for some reason, thus car wont crank. I wish someone wrote a patch to remove EWS from DME, so much pain would be over😀

  14. #64
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    Dear OP ms4x.net has a ews deleted ms42 and ms43 binary for public consumption with instructions to flash
    I like to pretend I know stuff

  15. #65
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    Zarboz - this website you posted has insane amounts of advanced information that I havent seen before!
    At least from the first looks of it.
    And I've been rummaging the whole internet for hours every day, in search on my non crank condition.
    It appears to be drilled down to basic steps enough for people with no programming knowledge or skills to understand/execute.
    This is huge and I can't thank you enough for sharing it. So many issues with no-starts will no disappear.
    Another awesome flash that I noticed on your website is secondary air pump delete, which is great! People are literally buying $200 modules to do that.
    Unfortunately my DME is neither MS42 nor MS43.
    Mine appears to be MS41.1 (this is the one I have to click in INPA in order for it to load correctly).
    From researching it looks like MS41.1 has EWS version 3.2, which apparently behaves like EWS 2.
    For people who have MS41 DME, I found a website which appears very similar to yours!
    https://sites.google.com/site/openms...with-romraider

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also found this list of DME versions if you're not sure what's your DME version
    http://wiki.bavariantechnic.com/inde...e=DME_Versions

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bmwe39528i1998 View Post
    Zarboz - this website you posted has insane amounts of advanced information that I havent seen before!
    At least from the first looks of it.
    And I've been rummaging the whole internet for hours every day, in search on my non crank condition.
    It appears to be drilled down to basic steps enough for people with no programming knowledge or skills to understand/execute.
    This is huge and I can't thank you enough for sharing it. So many issues with no-starts will no disappear.
    Another awesome flash that I noticed on your website is secondary air pump delete, which is great! People are literally buying $200 modules to do that.
    Unfortunately my DME is neither MS42 nor MS43.
    Mine appears to be MS41.1 (this is the one I have to click in INPA in order for it to load correctly).
    From researching it looks like MS41.1 has EWS version 3.2, which apparently behaves like EWS 2.
    For people who have MS41 DME, I found a website which appears very similar to yours!
    https://sites.google.com/site/openms...with-romraider

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also found this list of DME versions if you're not sure what's your DME version
    http://wiki.bavariantechnic.com/inde...e=DME_Versions

    that one is really easy to EWS off... you buy the ms41 flasher program cuz its like 5$ and why not it does what you need... do a full read of the DME load it in romraider toggle EWS off bit and flash back to car... #done
    I like to pretend I know stuff

  17. #67
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    Im almost there
    I bought the MS41 quickflash utility for $25.
    However when I open the partial dump I read with that utility, Byte 8 does not have any bits in it for some reason, while it's supposed to have 7 bits as per sticky

    http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewt...p?f=42&t=11140

    So I'm kind of confused why, but I feel I'm very close to cracking this.

    For some reason romraider editor will not open the full dump. But I know what I dont even need full dump for ews delete.
    Yet it's weird I dont have bits under bytes.
    I wish I could post a picture

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bmwe39528i1998 View Post
    Im almost there
    I bought the MS41 quickflash utility for $25.
    However when I open the partial dump I read with that utility, Byte 8 does not have any bits in it for some reason, while it's supposed to have 7 bits as per sticky

    http://www.romraider.com/forum/viewt...p?f=42&t=11140

    So I'm kind of confused why, but I feel I'm very close to cracking this.

    For some reason romraider editor will not open the full dump. But I know what I dont even need full dump for ews delete.
    Yet it's weird I dont have bits under bytes.
    I wish I could post a picture
    shoot me a DM i can help yah out don't wanna cross contaminate forums :-D
    I like to pretend I know stuff

  19. #69
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    Just one thing - usually with MS41 the EWS delete also should contain unplugging the EWS module and jumping the wire from ignition switch to the starter.
    Martin Voigts
    BMW cars indy and locksmith
    1997 E36 318iS Sierrarot
    2012 Ford Mondeo

  20. #70
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    Zabroz
    Thanks for you help! I was able to figure it out and flashed ews deleted partial dump to the DME. Unfortunately still no luck, car wont crank. I will be able to message you in a couple of days, I registered only recently

    Fx323i
    You must be right because car still wont crank. Should I jump wires in this fashion?
    http://www.cybergenica.com/blog/tgim...re-a-bmw-540i/

    I tried jumping pin 1 and 2 on EWS connector but that didnt give me anything.

  21. #71
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    What model/year is your car?

  22. #72
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    One more question. At your first post in this topic you wrote that the relay in ews clicks. Does it, or does it not?

    If it does then it definitely sees the key and accepts it. Are you sure that your starter, engine ground, ignition switch and power to the ignition switch are fine? Your last post with jumping 1 and 2 on ews with the car still not cranking leads me to a conclusion, that your problem is elsewhere.

  23. #73
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    Fx323i
    My dream come true😀 I read hundreds of your posts from many years ago while researching my issue and so glad you're still around, the ultimate expert on EWS😎
    The car is E39 528i 1998 (production of 97)
    Yes the relay in EWS does click and the board looks pristine.
    I dont know if it sees and/or accepts the key?
    INPA did give me some EWS error and everything else was checked.
    Here's my original post
    https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...1340871?page=5
    I registered on bimmerforums because I wanted to see what you and/or geaggrinder had to say. I think I read every single post on this forum by you two about EWS
    But now after researching for 2 weeks I finally deleted the EWS from my DME and still no luck.
    I did take the ignition switch apart and it looks good. I tried hot wiring the ignition to see if it would at least crank but it did not work. I'm going to look how to check if ignition switch is actually getting power.
    Now I just found another video where one guy shared a trick I havent seen anywhere else when working on no start/no crank condition.
    In that video he says that if you turn the key to the 1st position (ON) and open driver's door, it will beep.
    If it doesnt beep it means problem with key/ews, ring antenna or ignition switch.
    Now that I deleted the ews, even if there was a problem with ews or the key, I should be able to start the car. The person I bought the car from he said he changed the ring antenna. But the ring antenna is part of ews system anyway so shouldn't give me problems even if it was bad by coincidence?Which then leads me to believe maybe still something with the ignition switch. I'm gonna do some more checking.

  24. #74
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    Bmwe39528i1998, Can you post a pic of what you jumped on the EWS relay?
    demet

  25. #75
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    I think I cant upload pictures yet.
    Uploaded here
    https://ibb.co/VDN9GQz
    https://ibb.co/rccgwt5

    Also on the bimmerfest thread I linked in my last post I just tested ignition switch and there does not seem to be a problem there. Pictures uploaded there

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