Technique Tuning Stage 2 Dyno

[stanksbeamen]

Its been a while since I've posted or even lurked but figured I'd post up my dyno I recently got around to doing.

I still have the stock intake manifold on it, need to get an M50 in there with ASC delete and the hose kit from MaxPSI. The engine is built, 9:1 JE pistons and eagle rods for longevity purposes as I plan on keeping it for the long haul. Currently living in Hawaii so 92 Octane, but tuned for 91. Three inch exhaust with high flow cat and a vibrant muffler.

First pull is 8 psi.
Second pull is 8 psi with open e-cut out.
Third pull is 12.1 psi.
It was 86 degrees w/58% humidity.

I didn't realize that my eboost2 wasn't properly set up as my car sat for over a year while I was overseas so I messed with the sensitivity and gate pressure to hopefully hit 13 psi which the tune is good for. I was hoping for over 400 whp/tq but I'm happy with it for now. Been wondering if the 60-1 turbo is good to be pushed a little further? Once I get the M50 mani swapped in I may dyno again to see the difference...
IMG_3093.PNG

Hope all is well at BF.c FI, boost on!

[pbonsalb]

If it’s the old TT stage 2 tune, it uses 42 lb injectors. Those might be good for 450 rwhp, which is also a good stopping point for the old 60-1. You might need an M50 intake and 16 psi. Your engine can take more than 450 rwhp but most everything else you have is not good for much more. Leave the eboost sens at the recommended 20 for now and play with the other settings.

[BMWManiac]

If it’s the old TT stage 2 tune, it uses 42 lb injectors. Those might be good for 450 rwhp, which is also a good stopping point for the old 60-1. You might need an M50 intake and 16 psi. Your engine can take more than 450 rwhp but most everything else you have is not good for much more. Leave the eboost sens at the recommended 20 for now and play with the other settings.

TT stage 2 I would expect around 14.5 psi, no? Your motor can definitely handle more. Get some 60lb injectors in there, a GT35r, and let the big dog eat!

[pbonsalb]

Stock TT Stage 2 was 13 psi and did about 420 rwhp with M50 manifold.

http://techniquetuning.com/e36m3obd2turbo.php

[stanksbeamen]

If it’s the old TT stage 2 tune, it uses 42 lb injectors. Those might be good for 450 rwhp, which is also a good stopping point for the old 60-1. You might need an M50 intake and 16 psi. Your engine can take more than 450 rwhp but most everything else you have is not good for much more. Leave the eboost sens at the recommended 20 for now and play with the other settings.

I do have 42# injectors so I guess its the old tune. Is there a new tune? Yea, ill eventually get around to M50 mani but good to know it can be pushed to 16 psi. You think the tune will compensate for the additional boost safely?

TT stage 2 I would expect around 14.5 psi, no? Your motor can definitely handle more. Get some 60lb injectors in there, a GT35r, and let the big dog eat!

Yea like Phil posted, 13 psi. Yea the motor can definitely handle more but I don't feel like redoing everything, new turbo, new dp/exhaust etc. Once I retire in 6 years ill have time to play with it as much as I want then. I have an almost 1 year old so between work and the family don't have much extra time to be spent out in the garage. When I do, its usually adding stuff to my S1000R lol...

[Turbohugh]

I do have 42# injectors so I guess its the old tune. Is there a new tune? Yea, ill eventually get around to M50 mani but good to know it can be pushed to 16 psi. You think the tune will compensate for the additional boost safely?



Yea like Phil posted, 13 psi. Yea the motor can definitely handle more but I don't feel like redoing everything, new turbo, new dp/exhaust etc. Once I retire in 6 years ill have time to play with it as much as I want then. I have an almost 1 year old so between work and the family don't have much extra time to be spent out in the garage. When I do, its usually adding stuff to my S1000R lol...

That’s S62 power there . I agree bigger injectors and a M50 may work magic. Are you on S52 cams and better springs ?
What I’ve been reading our heads don’t flow they well without a little work and the valve size can be increased .
You can also possibly increase timing under boost somewhat unless your riding the knock sensor . None the less those are great numbers in my opinion for 91 octane


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[pbonsalb]

No need for head work or cams any fancier than stock S52 cams unless you need big power. Just get a 60lb tune and raise the boost to 16-17 psi or whatever gets you to about 450 rwhp. You can add an aquamist water injection system if you want to help with the small inter cooker and turbo being pushed closer to its limits, and run the 255LPH pump off acrelay with the stock wires feeding/grounding thecrelay and a new pump ground and a power feed off the battery. Leave it alone at that point. When the manifold cracks buy a better one and go bigger with the turbo and piping and fuel pump and intercooler and wastegate and BOV. The 60 lb tune can carry over — it’s good for 600+ rwhp on pump gas.

[NickG]

With 13psi, M52 intake, cat, and 91 octane, I would expect you to be around 380rwhp, so let's say 360-370rwhp @ 12psi. You're not that far off. It would have been helpful to record the boost curve along with the power curves to see if the boost was stable or tapered on the top end.

The 'stock' Stage2 hardware (injectors/turbo) will top out at about 450rwhp and ~15psi. If you want more than that, you'd need to upgrade the turbo and injectors (and software to support). The next bottleneck would be the exhaust manifold, which is about 500rwhp @ 18psi.

[stanksbeamen]

That’s S62 power there . I agree bigger injectors and a M50 may work magic. Are you on S52 cams and better springs ?
What I’ve been reading our heads don’t flow they well without a little work and the valve size can be increased .
You can also possibly increase timing under boost somewhat unless your riding the knock sensor . None the less those are great numbers in my opinion for 91 octane


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Stock cams/springs, didn't feel the need to replace them as I don't think I'll ever go down the road of needing a ton of power.

No need for head work or cams any fancier than stock S52 cams unless you need big power. Just get a 60lb tune and raise the boost to 16-17 psi or whatever gets you to about 450 rwhp. You can add an aquamist water injection system if you want to help with the small inter cooker and turbo being pushed closer to its limits, and run the 255LPH pump off acrelay with the stock wires feeding/grounding thecrelay and a new pump ground and a power feed off the battery. Leave it alone at that point. When the manifold cracks buy a better one and go bigger with the turbo and piping and fuel pump and intercooler and wastegate and BOV. The 60 lb tune can carry over — it’s good for 600+ rwhp on pump gas.

Sound advice, I'll slowly get around to adding the M50 manifold and possibly water injection down the road.

With 13psi, M52 intake, cat, and 91 octane, I would expect you to be around 380rwhp, so let's say 360-370rwhp @ 12psi. You're not that far off. It would have been helpful to record the boost curve along with the power curves to see if the boost was stable or tapered on the top end.

The 'stock' Stage2 hardware (injectors/turbo) will top out at about 450rwhp and ~15psi. If you want more than that, you'd need to upgrade the turbo and injectors (and software to support). The next bottleneck would be the exhaust manifold, which is about 500rwhp @ 18psi.

I'll see if I can log boost info using my eboost2. With my new settings, I peaked 13.7psi tapering down to 13 psi near redline. Good to know the limits and when I need to start upgrading, thanks for the information!

[someguy2800]

That’s S62 power there . I agree bigger injectors and a M50 may work magic. Are you on S52 cams and better springs ?
What I’ve been reading our heads don’t flow they well without a little work and the valve size can be increased .
You can also possibly increase timing under boost somewhat unless your riding the knock sensor . None the less those are great numbers in my opinion for 91 octane


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This is really poor advice.

[Turbohugh]

This is really poor advice.

Care to explain what specifically was 'poor advice' or just a bad day for you?

[pbonsalb]

A few things about how the advice was poor come to mind:

Bigger injectors don’t work magic when you are not even at the limit of your current injectors.
The M50 manifold does flow more and will add power but it is not critical for the 400/400 goal of the OP.
The OP’s S52 would have S52 cams and you can make 700 rwhp with S52 cams.
Stiffer valve springs are not needed for 400 rwhp. Or 500 rwhp. Or 600 rwhp.
These heads flow great in stock form. People make 600+ rwhp on them no problem.
Increasing the valve size has low returns because there is not much space to do so without causing shrouding.
You decrease timing under boost; you don’t increase it. NickG is a great tuner.

[Turbohugh]

A few things about how the advice was poor come to mind:

Bigger injectors don’t work magic when you are not even at the limit of your current injectors.
The M50 manifold does flow more and will add power but it is not critical for the 400/400 goal of the OP.
The OP’s S52 would have S52 cams and you can make 700 rwhp with S52 cams.
Stiffer valve springs are not needed for 400 rwhp. Or 500 rwhp. Or 600 rwhp.
These heads flow great in stock form. People make 600+ rwhp on them no problem.
Increasing the valve size has low returns because there is not much space to do so without causing shrouding.
You decrease timing under boost; you don’t increase it. NickG is a great tuner.

Thanks for the explaination .
* I misread and thought he had mentioned he was using a M52 head.
* The head information I was reading elsewhere, and watching videos of some nice porting, dimpling and other headwork being performed on these. Good to know they support 600+ whp. Good information about the valve shrouding.
* Timing under boost yes I understand pulling timing. My point was it's possible instead of pulling say 10degrees to pull 8, however he has a good tuner so that's something I'm sure a good tuner considers. No disrespect intended to his tuner.

I'm just here to learn folks, reading my comments I in no way assert myself as an authority, just suggestions and learning from the feedback. Thanks. And to the OP thanks for sharing the information about your build.

[pbonsalb]

M52 Head is same as S52 head except for springs and cams. M52 springs work fine with boost but swapping the M52 cams for S52 cams gives a noticeable improvement in upper end power with little to no downside. On the timing, I’d defer to the tuner. You can make more power using up the safety margins but then you may be relying on the knock sensor. Given how detonation can bend a rod or break a ring land or hole a piston, you must be confident in what you are doing. Water/meth injection can help. I use it just for safety — my ECU is not tuned for it. With boost a little more octane almost never hurts. NickG has been tuning turbo E36 for over 10 years so he knows the knock parameters pretty well.

[someguy2800]

Pbonsalb covered it. Please vet your info before posting stuff, about 20 people read these threads for every person that post and people new to the platform latch on to little bits of data like this and take it seriously. We are all here to learn and share ideas.

[m3leistung]

Long time lurker on the FI forum with no FI (yet). Listen to the OGs for solid advice.

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[stanksbeamen]

Long time lurker on the FI forum with no FI (yet). Listen to the OGs for solid advice.

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Same here, took me a few years but once you do it's awesome!

[Turbohugh]

Excellent info thanks for the clarity


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[JuCo]

My TT Stg 2 setup made 440whp on 15psi...

JuCo_dyno.JPG

[Turbohugh]

My TT Stg 2 setup made 440whp on 15psi...

JuCo_dyno.JPG

sweet . That car must be kracking! #ClarksonVoice


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[stanksbeamen]

[QUOTE=JuCo;30111652]My TT Stg 2 setup made 440whp on 15psi...

/QUOTE]

Nice, thanks for posting! What's your exhaust set up like? I've got to go through my pile o' parts to see what I have and what I need for the M50 reinstall...haha.

[JuCo]

Thanks Guys, the car was certainly enjoyable and fun. My exhaust was a custom 3 inch from the downpipe back no cats and 3 inch magnaflow muffler.

[BMWManiac]

Bottom line, you need to upgrade injectors, turbo, tune, m50 manifold, fuel pump to 450, and turn up the boost to about 20 psi...get it done now :-)!

[trthrrt489]

With 13psi, M52 intake, cat, and 91 octane, I would expect you to be around 380rwhp, so let's say 360-370rwhp @ 12psi. You're not that far off. It would have been helpful to record the boost curve along with the power curves to see if the boost was stable or tapered on the top end.

The 'stock' Stage2 hardware (injectors/turbo) will top out at about 450rwhp and ~15psi. If you want more than that, you'd need to upgrade the turbo and injectors (and software to support). The next bottleneck would be the exhaust manifold, which is about 500rwhp @ 18psi.

Wow, the man himself posting!! OG days. I hope all is well!