Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: M54B25 stalling issues

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Warsaw, Poland
    Posts
    16
    My Cars
    2001 BMW 525i

    M54B25 stalling issues

    Hey all,

    I've been lurking on this forum for some time now and now I decided to post as my car needs some immediate attention. I hope to get some tips on how to deal with this problem. I have no mechanical background, but I know how to do some basic repairs, this however, is my first BMW car and it seems more complicated than my previous VW Golf IV GTI.
    Quick history - M54B25 touring, I bought this car 9 months ago, apart from new oil and filters, it required only new CCV lines. And that's it - 9 months of happiness
    The problem happened a few days ago. I've started the engine and for a few seconds it was idling a bit roughly, when I pressed the gas pedal it died immediately.
    Symptoms:
    -starts on, but rpm is a bit lower than should be, idle is a bit rough
    -pressing gas causes engine to stall, but pressing gas with max force causes engine to rev up
    -when I put the gearbox in "drive" and release break pedal, the car moves forward, pressing gas however makes the engine die

    So far far, I checked:
    -fuel pump - fuses are ok, makes noise when I turn the ignition on
    -today I've removed the airbox and checked the throttle plate - it opens when gas pedal is pressed.
    - INPA shows some errors and they are as follows:

    E R R O R M E M O R Y R E P O R T
    -------------------------------------
    Date: 09/08/18 20:52:35
    ECU: MS430DS0
    JobStatus: OKAY
    Variant: MS430DS0
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    RESULT: 9 errors in error memory !
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    190 Lambda probe heating downstrem sensor 1
    Error frequency : 1
    Logistic counter: 40
    N_32 704.00 rpm
    MAF 98.05 mg/stk
    VLS_DOWN_1 0.43 V
    R_MV_LS_DIAG_DOWN_1 65535.00 Ohm
    aufgetreten vor (rel. BZ) 141.40 h
    ---
    ---
    ---
    Cat-sensor heater defective
    Error to relevant
    Error debounce
    Error currently available
    stat. Error
    Errorcode: BE 78 01 28 16 12 56 FF E7 4C
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    227 lambda contol tolerance Bank 1
    Error frequency : 9
    Logistic counter: 39
    N_32 704.00 rpm
    MAF 92.60 mg/stk
    TCO 96.00 Grad C
    LAM_MV_1 25.00 %
    aufgetreten vor (rel. BZ) 8.00 h
    Deviation rich
    ---
    ---
    FUS active to Failure entry
    Error to relevant
    Error debounce
    Error currently not available
    sporadic Error
    Errorcode: E3 B9 09 27 16 11 C0 C0 EC 82
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    202 Lambda regulating limit Bank1
    Error frequency : 4
    Logistic counter: 40
    N_32 704.00 rpm
    TCO 63.75 Grad C
    R_LS_UP_1 203.00 Ohm
    VLS_UP_1 0.06 V
    aufgetreten vor (rel. BZ) 6.10 h
    Mixture limit rich
    ---
    ---
    ---
    Error to relevant
    Error debounce
    Error currently not available
    sporadic Error
    Errorcode: CA B1 04 28 16 95 CB 0C EC 95
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    228 lambda contol tolerance Bank 2
    Error frequency : 1
    Logistic counter: 35
    N_32 704.00 rpm
    MAF 114.39 mg/stk
    TCO 96.75 Grad C
    LAM_MV_2 21.48 %
    aufgetreten vor (rel. BZ) 2.20 h
    Deviation rich
    ---
    ---
    ---
    Error to relevant
    Error debounce
    Error currently not available
    sporadic Error
    Errorcode: E4 B1 01 23 16 15 C1 B7 EC BC
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    238 burning fail Cylinder 1
    Error frequency : 1
    Logistic counter: 35
    TCO 96.75 Grad C
    N_32_TOL 736.00 rpm
    MAF_TOL 114.39 mg/stk
    MAF_BOL 108.94 mg/stk
    aufgetreten vor (rel. BZ) 2.20 h
    ---
    ---
    Misfire CARB_B4
    ---
    Error to relevant
    Error debounce
    Error currently not available
    sporadic Error
    Errorcode: EE B4 01 23 C1 17 15 14 EC BC
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    240 burning fail Cylinder 3
    Error frequency : 1
    Logistic counter: 35
    TCO 96.75 Grad C
    N_32_TOL 736.00 rpm
    MAF_TOL 114.39 mg/stk
    MAF_BOL 108.94 mg/stk
    aufgetreten vor (rel. BZ) 2.20 h
    ---
    ---
    Misfire CARB_B4
    ---
    Error to relevant
    Error debounce
    Error currently not available
    sporadic Error
    Errorcode: F0 B4 01 23 C1 17 15 14 EC BC
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    203 Lambda regulating limit Bank2
    Error frequency : 1
    Logistic counter: 35
    N_32 704.00 rpm
    TCO 96.75 Grad C
    R_LS_UP_2 154.00 Ohm
    VLS_UP_2 0.07 V
    aufgetreten vor (rel. BZ) 2.20 h
    Mixture limit rich
    ---
    ---
    ---
    Error to relevant
    Error debounce
    Error currently not available
    sporadic Error
    Errorcode: CB B1 01 23 16 C1 9A 0D EC BC
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    239 burning fail Cylinder 2
    Error frequency : 2
    Logistic counter: 35
    TCO 96.75 Grad C
    N_32_TOL 768.00 rpm
    MAF_TOL 130.73 mg/stk
    MAF_BOL 98.05 mg/stk
    aufgetreten vor (rel. BZ) 2.10 h
    ---
    ---
    Misfire CARB_B4
    ---
    Error to relevant
    Error debounce
    Error currently not available
    sporadic Error
    Errorcode: EF B4 02 23 C1 18 18 12 EC BD
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    8 air flow meter
    Error frequency : 7
    Logistic counter: 40
    N_32 544.00 rpm
    THR 24.24 Grad TPS
    ISAPWM_ISA 68.75 %
    VMAF 0.00 V
    aufgetreten vor (rel. BZ) 0.00 h
    ---
    KS--> Ground or open circuit
    ---
    ---
    Error to relevant
    Error debounce
    Error currently available
    sporadic Error
    Errorcode: 08 F2 07 28 11 1F B0 00 EC D2
    ================================================== ===========


    Hope to get some tips where to look and what to check to get "the beast" up and running

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    11,537
    My Cars
    1997 BMW 540i 6 speed
    Disconnect the air flow meter and start the engine? Does it now run correctly? The MAF may be bad, or the wiring to the MAF is bad.

    You also have a problem with the O2 sensor heating circuit. Fixing this may solve the sensor error codes.
    Last edited by edjack; 09-09-2018 at 02:02 AM.


    Ed in San Jose '97 540i 6 speed aspensilber over aubergine leather. Build date 3/97. Golden Gate Chapter BMW CCA Nr 62319.

  3. #3
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    AndoverRockport MA & Intl
    Posts
    14,856
    My Cars
    E46M3Cic E39.540iT E84X1
    Agreed.

    The MAF error occured 7 times, logistics counter 40 means it's basically happening all the time, so that's definitely a 'real deal' error....
    It says ground or open circuit, that could either mean the MAF is failing internally, or, could be a wiring issue.

    Likewise the Lambda control (mixture control) errors have happened many times and almost all of them happened at last startup so they are probably happening all the time. Long shot could be coming from the bad MAF but I'd also check the Bank 1 O2 sensors and/or connectors. The Bank 1 post-cat sensor definitely has a heater error which is a hard-wiring error and should be looked at.

    Then you have seen occaisional misfires on 1,2,3 (Bank 1 obv), but they only happened once about 5-starts ago (logistics 35)...
    Likewise the Bank 2 mixture error only happened once that same 5-starts-ago...

    My guess on those is that they are just 'side-effect' symptoms of the primary things that are wrong - MAF and/or O2 stuff. Vacuum leaks thankfully seem to be out because your errors are rich running not lean.... which also points to perhaps a bad MAF...

    My advice would be same as ed's basically:
    - Clean up MAF connector (spray connector w contact cleaner & inspection etc. ) you can try spraying MAF cleaner on the inside part of the sensor itself but these are not as prone to contamination problems as the old hot-wire types so that tends not to do much anymore...
    - Inspect O2 sensor connectors and wiring condition under the car, particularly Bank 1 post-cat, fix anything you find there and / or re-seat the connectors

    Clear codes and try a restart and see what comes back

    If the MAF errors come right back, clear again, then try running it without the MAF connected as Ed suggests... That will throw a new 'MAF' error but if the car runs well otherwise and doesn't throw the other errors, you can be pretty sure the MAF is bad and causing the other problems...
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
    1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)


  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Warsaw, Poland
    Posts
    16
    My Cars
    2001 BMW 525i
    Thank you for replying. Today in the morning I removed the the MAF and cleaned it. It seems OK, because when I start the engine and disconnect it, engine starts working unevenly.
    Once I removed MAF, I went further and removed intake parts down to the throttle body. When I removed the idle control valve to take a closer look, it did not make the "rattle can" noise it should make. At that point I was 90% sure I found the culprit.
    So I cleaned the valve with some carb cleaner and piece of cloth, assembled it back together ........and now my engine works just fine I did a small test drive after I cleared error codes - 20 km and no errors.
    Tomorrow I'll take it for a longer ride and hook up inpa to take a look at short and long term fuel trims, lambda etc.... I hope the ICV was the main reason for stalling, but I want to be extra sure.
    Last edited by NOmoreBLING; 09-09-2018 at 12:03 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Los Gatos CA
    Posts
    4,246
    My Cars
    1987 325is, e34, Z3, e39
    Check the intake boots very carefully for cracks.

    For those reading this in the future, "lambda control" doesn't mean that the lambda sensors are faulty. It means that the lambda sensors are working, and the ECU can't control the fuel/air mixture. That generally means an intake air leak.

  6. #6
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    AndoverRockport MA & Intl
    Posts
    14,856
    My Cars
    E46M3Cic E39.540iT E84X1
    Well... I understand your “simplification for simple future readers” Point. A lambda control error doesn’t literally mean the sensor is bad, BUT it can be the case. Drifting aging O2s or bad connections giving bad readings and the DME still unable to hit the desired target can and does occur. And in this case there are ALSO hard O2 errors tho granted they are downstream so shouldn’t be affecting the control loop aside from primary O2 diagnosis.... and the actual control error says “rich” which means in this case not a vac leak.

    Dont get me wrong I’m not saying O2s are for sure ops running problem (tho he does have a hard error on a post cat one - that one ain’t fixin itself ) I’m just saying they should be on the list to further check out IF the MAF / ICV don’t fix everything.
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
    1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)


  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Bay Area, California
    Posts
    1,305
    My Cars
    325iT, 540iT
    An oxygen sensor won't work unless it's hot. I think generally even the unheated ones will stay hot enough once the engine has been running for a while. However running without a heater will delay going into closed loop mode. Check the resistance at the sensor side of the plug across the ground an heater pins (your DME thinks it's got an open circuit so that should be real easy to check). If the resistance is OK at the sensor side, probe the DME connector (either with the sensor plugged in or with the sensor unplugged and the two pins on the other end of the harness jumped). If that checks out okay hit the wiring diagrams and see if there's a fuse in the circuit (then check to see if it's blown or if your fuse box looks like it's corroded).

    Lambda control vs lambda regulating limit is, I think, long-term vs short-term (unsure which is which) fuel trims.

    That MAF voltage is zero which again means the DME thinks there's an open circuit. Check the DME and MAF side of that wiring. Perhaps your DME connector is getting corroded?

    That misfire though... an obvious first step is to look for vacuum leaks, but.... how's the coil pack wiring look? Do the coils share a common ground with the MAF and oxygen sensor heaters?

    Edit: Looks like fuses 1, 3, and 4 are in play and all three circuits ground through the DME. So. Go find the DME ground points and see how they look.
    Last edited by blarf; 09-09-2018 at 10:11 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Warsaw, Poland
    Posts
    16
    My Cars
    2001 BMW 525i
    This week is going to be busy for me so I'll propably look into this on weekend. Unless something goes wrong with the car

    Wysłane z mojego ALE-L21 przy użyciu Tapatalka

  9. #9
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    AndoverRockport MA & Intl
    Posts
    14,856
    My Cars
    E46M3Cic E39.540iT E84X1
    Quote Originally Posted by blarf View Post
    That misfire though... an obvious first step is to look for vacuum leaks, but.... how's the coil pack wiring look? Do the coils share a common ground with the MAF and oxygen sensor heaters?

    Edit: Looks like fuses 1, 3, and 4 are in play and all three circuits ground through the DME. So. Go find the DME ground points and see how they look.
    Yeah... IME when you have other clear symptoms like MAF / O2 hard errors, its worthwhile not wasting time w/ the misfire codes yet... It very well may be that the bad MAF signals are causing bad mixture which is causing it to hit the control limits and causing the misfires... Get the 'hard errors' out of there first, then see what comes back...

    But yea the ground checks are a good call.
    2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
    2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
    2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
    2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)

    Former:

    1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
    1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Bay Area, California
    Posts
    1,305
    My Cars
    325iT, 540iT
    Quote Originally Posted by geargrinder View Post
    Yeah... IME when you have other clear symptoms like MAF / O2 hard errors, its worthwhile not wasting time w/ the misfire codes yet... It very well may be that the bad MAF signals are causing bad mixture which is causing it to hit the control limits and causing the misfires... Get the 'hard errors' out of there first, then see what comes back...

    But yea the ground checks are a good call.
    Yeah, mixture problems like a bad MAF can cause a misfire. I'm a bit suspicious seeing the oxygen sensor resistance at max (65535 = 0xFFFF = open circuit) and the MAF voltage at zero (also likely an open circuit) instead of seeing something wrong but not at either the high or low limit.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Warsaw, Poland
    Posts
    16
    My Cars
    2001 BMW 525i
    Yeah, so it's been a few weeks since I solved the problem. I did as geargrinder suggested - checked the things. Up to now I drove over 4 000 kilometres and the check engine popped up 3- 4 times, for 1-2 hours each time. What is interesting is that the check engine would show up only when there was rainy weather. I used to have a similar issue in the past with my previous car - Golf IV. I removed the catalyst and had to use a metal spacer between the lambda sensor and exhaust so that the LPG system could run. After that mod, every time there was rain I had check engine light for a few hours. Later on I found out that they guy who welded in the spacer in my exhaust did a lousy job and there was air leak that would cause problems. I welded it again and problem was solved.

Similar Threads

  1. Update on AFE stalling issues...
    By Dave04M3 in forum 2001 - 2006 M3 (E46)
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 02-14-2005, 11:08 PM
  2. Car Not Holding Idle.....stalling issue...
    By WhiteM32 in forum 1992 - 1999 M3 (E36)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-09-2004, 04:29 PM
  3. 320iA Stalling issues
    By e30-323ti in forum 1983 - 1991 (E30)
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 05-04-2004, 02:34 AM
  4. Stalling issue
    By 97white328 in forum 1991 - 1999 (E36)
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 12-29-2003, 07:00 PM
  5. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 06-24-2003, 06:27 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •