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Thread: Planning a M52B28 Stroker build. Questions

  1. #1
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    Planning a M52B28 Stroker build. Questions

    I'm looking for a good machine shop in the area that is familiar with BMW M52 blocks. Once I find one I will be dropping a M52B28 block and getting a bore [planning on 87mm] and other work to prep this for a stroker build.


    Im aiming for a stroke of 91mm using a rod length of 139mm. From what i've been reading the M54 Rods and Crank would be the way to go, however i'm wondering if the rods will hold up to 500~600 Crank Hp levels I'm really shooting for. [Eventually].


    With the M52 head I 'think' this will give me a displacement of 3245 ccs


    I am also evaluating head options [metricMechanic.com seems to have a nice one although its expensive] or rebuilding a M52 head with higher performance springs and using a M3 cam set.


    The machine work I will be requesting will be related to the block prep and boring, attaching the pistons to the rods, preparing the crank and all bearings [sizing rod and big end bearings] and sizing the rings.


    I live in DC, and my old machine shop for all my Japanese boosted projects shut down a few years ago due to the old guys retireing etc. [All Hail Martin-Otterback they were awesome and oldschool].


    I guess I have some questions about the components. I don't really want to cheap out too much as I would like to build this right and I think forged pistons would be a good idea. [I have liked Wiseco's dished pistons in the past].


    So my questions are : [assuming all my information is correct]


    * Can I use the M54B30 Crank, Rods, and Pistons [which of these components are forged]?
    * Should I consider aftermarket Rods and/or Pistons [the design of the rod beam of Pauter rods for example seem to 'slice' through the air/oil mist better]
    * What other rod lengths/bores should I consider to reach my desired 3.2ltr displacement?


    I plan to do the assembly myself and have been studying as much as I can about the short/long block assembly. Looks very straightforward and other than the Vanos I've done things like this before.


    FWIW I've searched all over and so much conflicting information I've decided to start my 'once and for all' thread.


    Thanks in advance and I apologize if this question has been asked ad naseum
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  2. #2
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    Why do you need to make this so expensive and difficult? Put an S52 crank in the block. No clearancing required. Use aftermarket lower compression S52 spec pistons for 135mm rods. Use aftermarket 135mm rods. All this is easy, proven and good for 800 rwhp or more. I believe in displacement but would not spend the money and go through the effort for an oddball one-off to gain 100cc. Yes there is lots of theory on rod to stroke ratio. Forget about implementing that theory unless you have some special needs or just want an expensive unique project or absolutely must have an 8500 rpm engine for some reason. Turbo makes so much torque you don’t need as many rpm. S54 might be the better starting point if you are hung up on rpm.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbohugh View Post
    Im aiming for a stroke of 91mm using a rod length of 139mm.
    Is there any particular reason you are looking for these numbers? I ask because the m54b30 crank, which is the same as the s52b32 crank is 89.6 mm. I would have to imagine that this is what you want versus a custom modified crank. The rod lengths are 135mm and the piston height of the m54b30 is 28.32. The deck height of the m5x/s5x block is 210mm so you need to keep the total of half the stroke + rod length + piston height less than 210mm. So you don't want a 139mm rod length, the 135mm rods used in the m52b28, s52 and m54b30 engines are forged and generally good to 500hp but not as strong as billet. If you are looking to go turbo, there is a strong contingent of guys using the m5x blocks with a 84mm bore in order to get more gasket surface between the cylinders. Plenty of people turbo the s52 blocks (or bore out the m5x blocks) with the 86.4mm. Going with an oversize piston right off the bat will limit off the shelf piston and ring availability. There are so many options to go about building one of these motors depending on budget and goals.

    Unless you want an oversized bore, there is rarely that much machine work required for these blocks, they are tough. Decide if you want to go with an o-ring headgasket, get the block honed and measured for rings and you will probably be able to stick with stock piston sizing. If you know you will turbo it, you can spec out your semi custom pistons to suit your needs or if you are going to start off N/A, you probably should stick with stock dimension pistons and lower compression at a later date with a thicker head gasket. Definitely have the machine shop check out your head and resurface it if needed.

    I'm in the D.C. metro area and am about to finally install my m52b30 motor (into my 96 328 vert) and will share what I've learned but mine is staying N/A.
    Last edited by gdavid; 09-07-2018 at 02:05 PM. Reason: Typo

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdavid View Post
    Is there any particular reason you are looking for these numbers? I ask because the m54b30 crank, which is the same as the s52b32 crank is 89.6 mm. I would have to imagine that this is what you want versus a custom modified crank. The rod lengths are 135mm and the piston height of the m54b30 is 28.32. The deck height of the m5x/s5x block is 210mm so you need to keep the total of half the stroke + rod length + piston height less than 210mm. So you don't want a 139mm rod length, the 135mm rods used in the m52b28, s52 and m54b30 engines are forged and generally good to 500hp but not as strong as billet. If you are looking to go turbo, there is a strong contingent of guys using the m5x blocks with a 84mm bore in order to get more gasket surface between the cylinders. Plenty of people turbo the s52 blocks (or bore out the m5x blocks) with the 86.4mm. Going with an oversize piston right off the bat will limit off the shelf piston and ring availability. There are so many options to go about building one of these motors depending on budget and goals.

    Unless you want an oversized bore, there is rarely that much machine work required for these heads, they are tough. Decide if you want to go with an o-ring headgasket, get the block honed and measured for rings and you will probably be able to stick with stock piston sizing. If you know you will turbo it, you can spec out your semi custom pistons to suit your needs or if you are going to start off N/A, you probably should stick with stock dimension pistons and lower compression at a later date with a thicker head gasket. Definitely have the machine shop check out your head and resurface it if needed.

    I'm in the D.C. metro area and am about to finally install my m52b30 motor (into my 96 328 vert) and will share what I've learned but mine is staying N/A.
    Thanks for that feedback. I'm wanting to follow a tried and true format. I was following a build video with a M54B30 rotating assembly with the M52B28 block and head.
    I may be wrong on the length of rods, is it 135mm ?

    I just didnt want to build something that would grenade at 500Hp . I'd like a 7200 rpm redline [I'd shift at 6800 rpm ].

    - - - Updated - - -

    Yes I like that idea .
    Would using the rotating assembly from the M554B30 work ? This is a very available engine in my area.

    v/R
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  5. #5
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    Yeah the m54b30 rotating assembly goes right in. I think the m50b25 is a more common starting place because those guys are going up 0.5 liters vs only a 0.2 liter increase for the m52b28 guys.

    If you are looking to value horsepower and plan to turbo anyway, you will get way more value from a quality turbo setup rather than bothering stroking for 0.2 more displacement. If you are planning to build up a donor or motor and leave your m52b28 untouched, a 3.0 or 3.2 starts to make more sense.

    My project engine is an odd duck because I started with a m52b25 donor motor so going up in displacement made more sense than it would from a 2.8 liter.

  6. #6
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    The pin height of the rod and stroke you are proposing is not feasable. Bore it to 86 mm or 86.5 mm so you leave some cylinder wall in it, M54 crank, your choice of 135mm rods, off the shelf pistons from wiseco or CP or whoever, and rock on. Its unlikely you need to mess with rod or main clearances beyond checking them with plastigauge. Leave the head alone, just get it cleaned up and put S52 cams in it. Cut ring head gasket.

    To answer your other questions the stock crank and rods are forged, the pistons are cast hypereutectic, but that doesn't matter anyway because you want to bore it over anyway so you need new pistons and the stock rods are a flimsy spindly design. There is more to it than just the manufacturing method. The more economical rods like K1, eagle, molnar are fine for what your doing. Worrying about windage in a 600 whp turbo motor is pissing into the wind.

    Anything more than the above and your just throwing money at a problem that isn't there.


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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy2800 View Post
    The pin height of the rod and stroke you are proposing is not feasable. Bore it to 86 mm or 86.5 mm so you leave some cylinder wall in it, M54 crank, your choice of 135mm rods, off the shelf pistons from wiseco or CP or whoever, and rock on. Its unlikely you need to mess with rod or main clearances beyond checking them with plastigauge. Leave the head alone, just get it cleaned up and put S52 cams in it. Cut ring head gasket.

    To answer your other questions the stock crank and rods are forged, the pistons are cast hypereutectic, but that doesn't matter anyway because you want to bore it over anyway so you need new pistons and the stock rods are a flimsy spindly design. There is more to it than just the manufacturing method. The more economical rods like K1, eagle, molnar are fine for what your doing. Worrying about windage in a 600 whp turbo motor is pissing into the wind.

    Anything more than the above and your just throwing money at a problem that isn't there.

    Ok thanks this is how I will likely go about it.
    I have the M52B28 now in my E36 [328i vert]

    The plan was over the winter, to use this block and head as my starting point. I will do the bore out to 86.5 and use a M54b30 Crank. I will get some aftermarket 135mm rods and M54B30 pistons in the correct bore size.
    I will rebuild my stock head and run upgraded springs and M3 cams [I have the cams already].
    The goal is 10psi on a GT35 turbo using the Factory [re-coded/flashed] ECU.

    I think with all I've read [and including the new info you've all provided so far] that this makes sense to me. How say the massive?
    I've looking to locate a complete M54B30 motor for it's rotating assembly. I may just snag a junkyard one from CrazyRays [our local pick and pull] . I can usually get an engine for ~700 bucks.

    the harmonic balancer / crank pulley from the M54 should be used or the M52 pulley ? [considering I'll be using the M54 crank should I also be sure to get the pulley ? ]

    Thanks again for all the response.
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  8. #8
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    I started with an M52 block. Bored to 86.5 and used off the shelf 86.5 JE Pistons in 9.0:1 with K1 135mm rods and an S52 crank (which is the same as the M54 3.0L crank).

    Yes, if you were happy with just 3.0L, you could save money and recycle M54 3.0L pistons and rods and buy a $250 copper spacer to drop compression. You would save money on machining the bores. They should still be good for 500 rwhp and 500 lbs rwtq. But if you have to pay for the M54 rods and pistons, I’d buy stronger aftermarket if you can afford it, plus you won’t need the spacer.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turbohugh View Post
    Ok thanks this is how I will likely go about it.
    I have the M52B28 now in my E36 [328i vert]

    the harmonic balancer / crank pulley from the M54 should be used or the M52 pulley ? [considering I'll be using the M54 crank should I also be sure to get the pulley ? ]

    Thanks again for all the response.
    The m52 harmonic balancer/damper/crank pulley was used on is the same as the s52 which used that crank. It is not a tapered fit and mine feels loose on the crank so I'm going to use an M54 damper which feels just a little more snug. They should be the same speck and it may just be my parts but there have been reports of crankshaft bolts (jesus bolts) coming loose even though they get torqued to a high speck and are one time use. I need to confirm that m54 grooved pulley on the damper aligns with all of the accessories, but assuming that it does, I'm going to put green locktite on it and call it a day. Another option is the $300+ ATI damper.

  10. #10
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    You can get m54 cranks on ebay for like 150 bucks. Its the only part from the M54 you'll be using anyway. Plan on turning it up another 10 lbs as well. If your going through the work and expense of a built motor you might as well use it.


    86 325es, 2.8L m50, S476sxe, ProEFI 128 ecu, e85, solid rear axle, TH400 trans, 28x10.5w slicks, zip ties, popsicle sticks, tape
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by someguy2800 View Post
    You can get m54 cranks on ebay for like 150 bucks. Its the only part from the M54 you'll be using anyway. Plan on turning it up another 10 lbs as well. If your going through the work and expense of a built motor you might as well use it.
    Stop spying on me I'm actually searching Ebay and Craigslist.

    I made the mistake of putting my cell # into a parts locator website Now I'm getting guys trying to ship me 330i motors. Tons of them around Texas.

    I will get a used crank and purchase rods and pistons off the shelf. Looks like 86.5 will be my bore size. Thanks everyone ..
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  12. #12
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    I got curious and started shopping for you as well, sent you a private message with a potential bargain. I have no relation to the seller at all. Make sure you get casting # 1403866

  13. #13
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    Yes sir thank you!
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdavid View Post
    "Another option is the $300+ ATI damper."
    More like $800+

  15. #15
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    Got a crank [thank's Ebay / Culpepper Va].

    So my next decision is stock bore or go to 87mm.

    I'd like to go 87mm, and have priced out a set of JE forged pistons. Im wondering if the stock M52 head [which I have] will work or will I be looking for a S52 head because of the bore size differences, or if it's ok to use the M52 head with a 87mm bore.

    thanks in advance for your opinions.

    v/R
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlayerN07 View Post
    More like $800+
    Oh man, I knew they were up there but was obviously a bit off. That makes in a non-option as far as I'm concerned.

    I noticed the m54b30 crank on ebay local to the OP went for $50, which is an absolute bargain. Surprised turbohugh hasn't updated to brag, I know I would.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The m52 and s52 heads are the same, the only differences are the valve springs and the camshafts

  17. #17
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    I’d go 86.5 or 86.6 on the bore rather than 87. Stock M50/M2/S50/52 crank damper works fine but they are all 20-25 years old so when it fails, consider aftermarket if new ones are expensive.

  18. #18
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    Please report back on what machine shop you ended up going with and results. I used a reputable but non-bmw specialist to inspect two m52 heads for me but did not end up having any machine work done. I would like to know of any local machine shops that are really familiar with these as well as what you end up spending to get your block bored. If the head of the m52b28 I just pulled out of my project vert is salvageable, I'll probably build up that engine.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdavid View Post
    Please report back on what machine shop you ended up going with and results. I used a reputable but non-bmw specialist to inspect two m52 heads for me but did not end up having any machine work done. I would like to know of any local machine shops that are really familiar with these as well as what you end up spending to get your block bored. If the head of the m52b28 I just pulled out of my project vert is salvageable, I'll probably build up that engine.
    Still looking for the machine shop. 2 shops that I used to rely on are gone. They're disappearing
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  20. #20
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    I'm currently doing this too, picked up a good used M54 for $600 and using the crank/rods/pistons. Funny enough it's going in a 97 vert as well, hoping to eventually turbo it or maybe twin screw if I can find one. One thing to be aware of is a vert doesn't handle as much torque as a coupe/sedan, from what I read much over 400 wheel and you start twisting things enough that doors and trunk don't want to work.

    Not much point in building a crazy set up if you can't use it without wrecking your car. Better to save some money, do a basic build and spend the savings on brakes and suspension.

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