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Thread: Piping above subframe with a/c.

  1. #1
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    Piping above subframe with a/c.

    Hello, looking for input on those with oversubframe piping. Did you go around the a/c and back under the sway bar or under the a/c. I’m lost on how to get a 2.5” pipe between a/c and steering rack. I have to replace my motor mount. Is it possible my issue is stock motor mounts, do aftermarket poly mounts sit higher?

    Another question. After I welded a vibrant 90 to my gtx35r with spa manifold I cant find room to get a v band clamp on the intake turbine like I had planned. What couplers are people using that don’t melt? Anyone try making a heat shield that mounts to exhaust studs? I could weld a slight jog into the pipe under the manifold so I had room for the v band clamp. but it would make install a pain.


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  2. #2
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    The pipe have to go between the rack and ac, it'll fit on he very inside edge of the tie rod boot, and goes above the sway bar. But I had to jack the engine up significantly to fit it there, then set it down. I bought my pipes though, surely it'll take some trial and error if you're making them.. don't have any issues with melting on the silicone coupler. T bolt clamps on the charge pipe/compressor outlet if you clock the turbo correctly. What a huge pita to install and set all this up correctly... took me forever even with a turbo kit because of the lack of space... good luck with making it, it's going to take some time I'm sure. I probably have pictures or can take some . Pm me if you want.
    '97 BMW M3/4/5, Cosmos Black.

  3. #3
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    Most over the subframe kits with AC use 2.0 pipe. Let us know how you do with the 2.5.

  4. #4
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    I can make everything fit 2.5” if I figure out the a/c and use a coupler.
    Recently 3D printed snap together mandrel bends to mock everything which speeds things up.


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  5. #5
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    Looking forward to seeing how you sole the issue- I'll be trying to run above subframe piping on my e46 eventually. I'm currently running no front sway bar too.
    Last edited by awp235; 08-30-2018 at 01:21 PM.
    Keep it simple: half gutted '01 330i, welded diff, BC coils, SLR Super kit

  6. #6
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    I made it work with a 2.5" pipe but I can't upgrade my sway bar.... It doesn't touch the sway bar anymore with the new motor mounts I got.

    IMG_20180825_164904505.jpg
    1997 328is - Megasquirt PNP, Holset HX35, Deka 80lb injectors, SPA T3, Precision PW39 WG, Synapse Synchronic BOV, DKM Organic Twin Disc Clutch, Innovate LC-2 W/B, Mishimoto Intercooler, Mishimoto Catch Can, Mishimoto Rad, Devils Own Meth, Porsche 911 calipers with E46 M3 rotors, Corsa Exhaust

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by somebody5788 View Post
    I made it work with a 2.5" pipe but I can't upgrade my sway bar.... It doesn't touch the sway bar anymore with the new motor mounts I got.

    IMG_20180825_164904505.jpg
    What motor mounts did you have and transition to?


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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by lisnowboarder View Post
    What motor mounts did you have and transition to?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I had stock mounts with like 12000 miles on them. I went to the Vibra-tech motorsport mounts.
    1997 328is - Megasquirt PNP, Holset HX35, Deka 80lb injectors, SPA T3, Precision PW39 WG, Synapse Synchronic BOV, DKM Organic Twin Disc Clutch, Innovate LC-2 W/B, Mishimoto Intercooler, Mishimoto Catch Can, Mishimoto Rad, Devils Own Meth, Porsche 911 calipers with E46 M3 rotors, Corsa Exhaust

  9. #9
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    I have 3” over the subframe :devilook:

    Had to do a custom power steering cooler.


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    1998 M3 Turbo Arctic/black - current
    2004 Built motor TiAg/Black - Sold
    2008 E61 19T Turbo-Wagon - current
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    1998 M3 Cosmos S54 swapped Sedan - current

    1998 Turbo: PTE6870 | 1.15 ar | Hp Cover, Custom Divided T4 bottom-mount, 3.5" SS exhaust, Dual Turbosmart Compgates, Turbosmart Raceport BOV, 3.5" Treadstone Intercooler, 3.5" Vibrant resonator and muffler, Arp 2k Headstuds | Arp 2k Main studs | 87mm Je pistons | Eagle rods | 9.2:1 static compression, Ces 87mm cutring, Custom solid rear subframe bushings, Akg 85d diff bushings, 4 clutch 3.15 diff, , Poly engine mounts, UUC trans mounts W/ enforcers, 22RPD OBD2 Stock ECU id1700 E85 tune, 22RPD Big power Transmission swap w/ GS6-53

  10. #10
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    If that is with AC, take a picture for us. I was considering 3 inch oval piping but think I will have to go under. If no AC then there is obviously lots more room for piping.
    Last edited by pbonsalb; 09-03-2018 at 08:02 AM.

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=lisnowboarder;30095595]Hello, looking for input on those with oversubframe piping. Did you go around the a/c and back under the sway bar or under the a/c. I’m lost on how to get a 2.5” pipe between a/c and steering rack. I have to replace my motor mount. Is it possible my issue is stock motor mounts, do aftermarket poly mounts sit higher?

    Another question. After I welded a vibrant 90 to my gtx35r with spa manifold I cant find room to get a v band clamp on the intake turbine like I had planned. What couplers are people using that don’t melt? Anyone try making a heat shield that mounts to exhaust studs? I could weld a slight jog into the pipe under the manifold so I had room for the v band clamp. but it would make install a pain.


    Can you post more pics of your setup? Welding tight elbows to the compressor housings can really choke the flow. I know there isn't enough room to fit much of anything under there, but since you seem to have access to 3Dprinting, you should try to also print something like this:

    SCOB102_1.jpg

    This design gives you the tight radius, but allows more cross sectional flow through the elbow and chokes far less. If you have SolidWorks, I would try to surface loft the transition through the obstacle course and print it out. Once you get something that works, there are several companies that can metal coat (dip process) your FDM parts to surface coat them in metal. It really improves the strength and heat resistance of the 3D printed parts. People really underestimate how much HP and spool there is to gain from a piping system that has been optimized without any choke points. The sad thing is that just about every system for E36s has multiple choke points due to how difficult packaging is.

    Intake V-band couplers can be tough to make work as the engine moves around relative to the IC. Just make sure you get one that takes standard O-rings as they are much easier to service vs a flat gasket design. T-bolt / silicone couples CAN work well up to about 25-30psi, but require smooth pipes to reliably seal against. The wrinkle powder coat absolutely destroys sealing capability, unless you mask 2" on each end of the pipe. For Vband flanges, you will gain in max PSI capacity and they flow better than couplers, but your alignment precision goes way up. As soon as the engine starts moving around, they can break the aluminum weld (or the seal) if you don't have enough compliance in your piping. They aren't cheap either.

    If this is just a street car: I'd advise you to just try to minimize your cold side couplers to 4-5 if possible: 1 on turbo compressor, 1 on IC inlet, 1 on IC outlet, 1 between IM, 1 on IM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    If that is with AC, take a picture for us. I was considering 3 inch oval piping but think I will have to go under. If no AC then there is obviously lots more room for piping.
    Yeah it’s with ac.

    I go forward to the ac compressor. above the subframe and around below the compressor. You have to drop the ps cooler. Then over through the spot in the sway.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    1989 535i - sold
    1999 M3 Tiag/Dove - sold
    1998 M3 Turbo Arctic/black - current
    2004 Built motor TiAg/Black - Sold
    2008 E61 19T Turbo-Wagon - current
    2011 E82 135i - S85 Swap - current
    1998 M3 Cosmos S54 swapped Sedan - current

    1998 Turbo: PTE6870 | 1.15 ar | Hp Cover, Custom Divided T4 bottom-mount, 3.5" SS exhaust, Dual Turbosmart Compgates, Turbosmart Raceport BOV, 3.5" Treadstone Intercooler, 3.5" Vibrant resonator and muffler, Arp 2k Headstuds | Arp 2k Main studs | 87mm Je pistons | Eagle rods | 9.2:1 static compression, Ces 87mm cutring, Custom solid rear subframe bushings, Akg 85d diff bushings, 4 clutch 3.15 diff, , Poly engine mounts, UUC trans mounts W/ enforcers, 22RPD OBD2 Stock ECU id1700 E85 tune, 22RPD Big power Transmission swap w/ GS6-53

  13. #13
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    You mean the PS trombone pipe? Are you running your intake up between the mainfold and framerail to behind the headlight? Mine is in the above the subframe space going to behind the fog light.

  14. #14
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    busterhax is offline Y̝͎̘̍́ͣ̉͑̿̆Ō͎̼̺̬̒ͯ̃̇͗̂ U͈̖
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    I run a gt3582r with t04e compressor housing so I have a 2” out.


  15. #15
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    Vollosso can you post a picture of your piping?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3literheater View Post
    Vollosso can you post a picture of your piping?
    I don’t have one on hand. You need to wrap under the ac compressor and above the power steering. From there over and around to the intercooler.

    I run this with a 4” inlet and a underpanel that mounts vertically so there’s room there.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    1989 535i - sold
    1999 M3 Tiag/Dove - sold
    1998 M3 Turbo Arctic/black - current
    2004 Built motor TiAg/Black - Sold
    2008 E61 19T Turbo-Wagon - current
    2011 E82 135i - S85 Swap - current
    1998 M3 Cosmos S54 swapped Sedan - current

    1998 Turbo: PTE6870 | 1.15 ar | Hp Cover, Custom Divided T4 bottom-mount, 3.5" SS exhaust, Dual Turbosmart Compgates, Turbosmart Raceport BOV, 3.5" Treadstone Intercooler, 3.5" Vibrant resonator and muffler, Arp 2k Headstuds | Arp 2k Main studs | 87mm Je pistons | Eagle rods | 9.2:1 static compression, Ces 87mm cutring, Custom solid rear subframe bushings, Akg 85d diff bushings, 4 clutch 3.15 diff, , Poly engine mounts, UUC trans mounts W/ enforcers, 22RPD OBD2 Stock ECU id1700 E85 tune, 22RPD Big power Transmission swap w/ GS6-53

  17. #17
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    I have thought about making a custom AC bracket to space the compressor down a little bit. And if that bracket was made of steel it would be a lot smaller and provide more room for the over the subframe piping.

    -WTB: OEM Class 2 LTW GT wing with risers- Mazak

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3literheater View Post
    I have thought about making a custom AC bracket to space the compressor down a little bit. And if that bracket was made of steel it would be a lot smaller and provide more room for the over the subframe piping.
    Last time I had the motor out I did modify the bracket to make life easier.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    1989 535i - sold
    1999 M3 Tiag/Dove - sold
    1998 M3 Turbo Arctic/black - current
    2004 Built motor TiAg/Black - Sold
    2008 E61 19T Turbo-Wagon - current
    2011 E82 135i - S85 Swap - current
    1998 M3 Cosmos S54 swapped Sedan - current

    1998 Turbo: PTE6870 | 1.15 ar | Hp Cover, Custom Divided T4 bottom-mount, 3.5" SS exhaust, Dual Turbosmart Compgates, Turbosmart Raceport BOV, 3.5" Treadstone Intercooler, 3.5" Vibrant resonator and muffler, Arp 2k Headstuds | Arp 2k Main studs | 87mm Je pistons | Eagle rods | 9.2:1 static compression, Ces 87mm cutring, Custom solid rear subframe bushings, Akg 85d diff bushings, 4 clutch 3.15 diff, , Poly engine mounts, UUC trans mounts W/ enforcers, 22RPD OBD2 Stock ECU id1700 E85 tune, 22RPD Big power Transmission swap w/ GS6-53

  19. #19
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    Mine is lowered with an adapter plate. This required a different belt and a custom lower radiator neck for clearance (I have a mishimoto z3s54 rad that is thicker).

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    Mine is lowered with an adapter plate. This required a different belt and a custom lower radiator neck for clearance (I have a mishimoto z3s54 rad that is thicker).

    Got a picture of this adapter plate?

    I assume you no longer have a tensioner?

    -WTB: OEM Class 2 LTW GT wing with risers- Mazak

  21. #21
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    I have the tensioner still. Adapter plate is just an aluminum plate bolted to the blockand the ac bracket bolts to it. So I am spaced out a little in addition to down. I forget where I bought it but supposedly it was designed for this. I bought it 6-7 years ago.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    I have the tensioner still. Adapter plate is just an aluminum plate bolted to the blockand the ac bracket bolts to it. So I am spaced out a little in addition to down. I forget where I bought it but supposedly it was designed for this. I bought it 6-7 years ago.

    Damn I've never seen anything sold like that. Much easier to buy than build.

    Wish you guys had build threads or pictures.

    -WTB: OEM Class 2 LTW GT wing with risers- Mazak

  23. #23
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    I think I got it from speed force racing, which did turbo kits for these cars 10 years ago. My garage won’t be done for a month but I can take a picture then. I’d guess it’s a 5x7 plate about 3/4 thick that bolts to the stock ac mount holes and has 2 rows of holes drilled down the face so you can bolt the stock Ac bracket to it higher or lower. I actually found it was not that useful because I had to Modify it. I could have made something.

  24. #24
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    Used vibrant 90 degree elbow with reinforced, orange silicone coupler. I then heat wrapped the coupler for peace of mind. Pics are from preliminary mockup but the final product was easily doable with 2.5" piping...





  25. #25
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    [QUOTE=wgknestrick;30098088]
    Quote Originally Posted by lisnowboarder View Post
    Hello, looking for input on those with oversubframe piping. Did you go around the a/c and back under the sway bar or under the a/c. I’m lost on how to get a 2.5” pipe between a/c and steering rack. I have to replace my motor mount. Is it possible my issue is stock motor mounts, do aftermarket poly mounts sit higher?

    Another question. After I welded a vibrant 90 to my gtx35r with spa manifold I cant find room to get a v band clamp on the intake turbine like I had planned. What couplers are people using that don’t melt? Anyone try making a heat shield that mounts to exhaust studs? I could weld a slight jog into the pipe under the manifold so I had room for the v band clamp. but it would make install a pain.


    Can you post more pics of your setup? Welding tight elbows to the compressor housings can really choke the flow. I know there isn't enough room to fit much of anything under there, but since you seem to have access to 3Dprinting, you should try to also print something like this:

    SCOB102_1.jpg

    This design gives you the tight radius, but allows more cross sectional flow through the elbow and chokes far less. If you have SolidWorks, I would try to surface loft the transition through the obstacle course and print it out. Once you get something that works, there are several companies that can metal coat (dip process) your FDM parts to surface coat them in metal. It really improves the strength and heat resistance of the 3D printed parts. People really underestimate how much HP and spool there is to gain from a piping system that has been optimized without any choke points. The sad thing is that just about every system for E36s has multiple choke points due to how difficult packaging is.

    Intake V-band couplers can be tough to make work as the engine moves around relative to the IC. Just make sure you get one that takes standard O-rings as they are much easier to service vs a flat gasket design. T-bolt / silicone couples CAN work well up to about 25-30psi, but require smooth pipes to reliably seal against. The wrinkle powder coat absolutely destroys sealing capability, unless you mask 2" on each end of the pipe. For Vband flanges, you will gain in max PSI capacity and they flow better than couplers, but your alignment precision goes way up. As soon as the engine starts moving around, they can break the aluminum weld (or the seal) if you don't have enough compliance in your piping. They aren't cheap either.

    If this is just a street car: I'd advise you to just try to minimize your cold side couplers to 4-5 if possible: 1 on turbo compressor, 1 on IC inlet, 1 on IC outlet, 1 between IM, 1 on IM.
    I’ve been working in the 3d printing industry for about 10 years. There is only a couple printing materials available that would handle the temp, oils, and UV in the long term and they are very expensive. This is definitely something your not going to successfully build on a desktop home printer.


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    best time 9.06 @ 151.8 mph, best 60 foot 1.30

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