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Thread: 1991 BMW 750il wont start! Mechanic stuck! Been in shop >8 months!

  1. #26
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    1991 bmw 750il
    its actually in mesquite tx
    Last edited by shogun; 09-21-2018 at 06:41 PM. Reason: double posts merged

  2. #27
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    Maybe you ask in the regional forum for a shop in your Mesquite/Dallas area, because just another shop will not help much, they must be specialized on the old M70 engine and E32 750 / E31 M70 https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/f...ons-amp-Events
    I will also post a link in the E31 forum, if someone knows a shop in Dallas area and if so, to post the contact details here
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  3. #28
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    Thank you for prompt response. Before working with this mechanic I called around to maybe 10-12 different shops in the area none of which wanted to work on the m70. The mechanic I'm working with now had done some stuff for me before with good success and at the time didn't know he was a BMW master mechanic . I do know he has a lot of experience working on older bmws and really does know what he was doing. I just think he has been side tracked on other projects and hasn't wanted to redo what he has already done. I had a long conversation with him today and we tend to think it has to be something with the plug wires or facet Crankshaft sensors. We decided best thing to do is take back apart and put the original plug wires and crankshaft sensors back in and see where we are at after that. I bet it fires right up after going back to original plug wires, crankshaft, and cam sensors. Mechanic also said he has been out for most of the month of September and just getting back into the shop... sooo hopefully end of next week I will have detailed update . and hopefully we have some success. Shogun thank you for assistance in finding a shop in Dallas that specializes in the m70 , and if we can find one I will gladly tow the car to them so can get my baby back on the road again.

  4. #29
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    I still think its a simple item.

    The crank sensors, the lower one plugs into the driver side connection. The one further up plugs into the passenger side connection. In after-market shop manuals, these are sometimes wrong.

    The pick-up donuts, I will have to look at mine but I think they are side to side specific, that is the driver bank connects on the driver side. But I could be wrong, been so long. Either way, reversing the existing setup one set at a time would not hurt.
    ______________________________
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  5. #30
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    The problem with a lot of shops is your talking to the owner of the shop... he’s not doing the work I assure you. And If he is doing the work he has non knowledgeable workers

    i had a friend that worked at Nissan and the veteran master tech was explaining to him that an e28 m5 had 6 carburetors
    Last edited by e30luv318i; 09-22-2018 at 08:41 AM.
    Me E30 87/ 325i + F25 12/ M-Sport + E32 94/ 740i

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  6. #31
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    PM me, this is place is close to me. I would be willing to take a look for you.
    '93 850Ci - Mineralweiß Metallic

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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TxGR8White View Post
    PM me, this is place is close to me. I would be willing to take a look for you.
    PM sent . thank you

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by e30luv318i View Post
    The problem with a lot of shops is your talking to the owner of the shop... he’s not doing the work I assure you. And If he is doing the work he has non knowledgeable workers

    i had a friend that worked at Nissan and the veteran master tech was explaining to him that an e28 m5 had 6 carburetors
    Its a small shop and Frank does all the work himself. He usually does the jobs other shops don't want to do. He shares space with a friend of mine that renovates classic cars mainly 50s and 60s trucks. He has worked on my international scout and f100 . And thats how I was introduced to Frank.

    - - - Updated - - -

    [QUOTE=TxGR8White;30110183]PM me, this is place is close to me. I would be willing to take a look for you.[/QUOTE

    Let me know if you didn't get my PM as I just checked my sent box and didn't see it in there

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TxGR8White View Post
    PM me, this is place is close to me. I would be willing to take a look for you.
    This is an offer you don't want to pass on - he knows all there is to know on the M70.......
    Timm..2007 E64 650i Individual Sport..1999 E31 840ci Individual Sport..ex owner of 2000 E38 740..1999 E38 740i V8 M62..1998 E38 735i V8..1993 E32 730i V8..1988 E28 518i


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  9. #34
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    Update: Car now runs on all 12 cylinders.
    Stopped by this evening to take a look and found the CPS and Cylinder ID sensors connected to the wrong plugs. Corrected that, and she fired right up.
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  10. #35
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    GREAT news! Thanks TxGR8White for helping.
    It was as some of us already suspected before as the problem, in August I already posted: " not knowing all the details what the mechanic did, but if it would be my car I would start first in the area of CPS and cylinder identification/donuts."
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by TxGR8White View Post
    Update: Car now runs on all 12 cylinders.
    Stopped by this evening to take a look and found the CPS and Cylinder ID sensors connected to the wrong plugs. Corrected that, and she fired right up.
    I hate to brag... but....

    Well glad you got her going! Thats a BIG relief after so long!
    ______________________________
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  12. #37
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    and that is supposed to mean what exactly?
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  13. #38
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    just like that.. you can make it alive, after 8 months+ what a champ..

  14. #39
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    That I posted the solution in the first reply. And I bought it up a couple more times. I figured it would be the problem. Shogun mentioned it too. This is why the M70 needs someone with experience working on it...
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  15. #40
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    Makes sense now. The best way to diagnose any problem with these are to be methodical. This engine had a lot of its components disconnected, disassembled and even removed. It’s no wonder that it was getting confusing.

    F7F5A2D6-5EB8-4ACD-9137-AF1ACEB9E8FC.jpg D0D7ED24-647B-402C-A10D-89923823D27E.jpg
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  16. #41
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    I hope they know or you told them that on the E32 750 the positions/locations of fuel pump relays and main relays changed, confusing for people which are not familiar with that model
    older version 1988 http://www.e32-schrauber.de/bmw/date.../arb_08_88.pdf
    1989 - 1994 http://www.e32-schrauber.de/bmw/date...8_88-07_94.pdf
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  17. #42
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    Also certain shop manuals are wrong when it comes to the connector for crank position or spark pick-up. So that's another issues. Not the official manuals, but for certain one after-market. I forget which one.
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  18. #43
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    this one by by Bentley, quote: " Trivial errors: M70 engine only: at page 120-10, 2nd picture down, the picture shows the plugs for the crankshaft sensor and cylinder identification sensor (pulse wire). According to Bentley, the 2 top plugs are the crank sensor plugs, and the bottom 2 are the ones that go to the spark plug wires. This is obviously wrong. Looking at the picture, the left top plug is the crank sensor bank 1-6, left bottom plug is the spark plug sensor bank 1-6, right top plug is the spark plug sensor bank 7-12 and finally right bottom plug is the crank sensor bank 7-12. Also this is checked in the factory manual." http://bmwe32.masscom.net/sean750/ov...s_versie12.htm

    From time to time I check on the Bentley site for updates, for example years ago they already corrected the CPS ohm for the M60 from 1240 to 540 +/- 10%. I print these pages out and add it to my Bentley Manual I bought >15 years ago https://wiki.bentleypublishers.com/p...ageId=12910603
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  19. #44
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    Thank you all for the help! Special thanks To TxGR8White and sick puppy moterwerks for taking the time to come take a look at it and solving the problem almost instantly! LOL! Also special thanks to shogun for all your help/efforts to address the issue and anyone else that has commented on this thread. I believe more than one person pointed to the issue. Im so glad she is running again! Now just to see how long it takes him to put the interior back together! I really feel like the car should be in proper hands! Thing that pisses me off is that we all said it was the sensors I literally asked him ten times if that was the issue and stated that a lot of the manuals have it backwards, but no he assured me it was correct. Its insane to me something so simple kept it off the road for 11 months that I literally repeatedly asked him that it was the issue. I was calling him almost everyday trying to bug him to work on it. It was exactly what you all said and I'm sorry for my lack of knowledge and inability to go over there and solve the issue myself. Who thinks I need to go get the car from this mechanic or should I let him finish the work?

  20. #45
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    I say let him finish the work, now that the Mystery Issue has been cleared up.

    I am amazed that Independent automotive technicians (lacking any Factory support) can go to work, day after day, and successfully diagnose the vast array of automotive repair issues that they face.

    Me, I would crash and burn the first month.

    I think these guys are Champions. They have earned my respect.

    And I support them whenever I can.

  21. #46
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    Yea im gonna let him finish. Hopefully it will be done before 2019

  22. #47
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    While talking to Frank, he indicated that he used Alldata to print out the wiring diagram (which has an error in it regarding fuel pump relay locations). Anyway, the locations of the plugs is only valid if they have always been put back in the same place. The way I figured it out was actually tracing each plug back to the wiring harness located on top of the engine valley, and not where the plug was located (they were in the wrong spots to begin with). On the second point, there seemed to be a lot of things removed in regard to the interior, which in my opinion was unnecessary. Either way, I do hope you get the car put back together, having owned a very fine example of an E32 myself, you should enjoy the car as it is intended. Good luck.
    '93 850Ci - Mineralweiß Metallic

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  23. #48
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    So the story continues with Frank... Shogun I gave him your chips to install- which is pretty simple to install and he even messed that up and installed them all backwards. I can't believe anyone would do that I even sent him the instructions from your site. I was going to do this myself but just assume let him finish, which I regret. He finally got them installed correctly and put the dash put back together and said he was done and I could come get it. But he does mention that the Parking gear won't engage anymore , which I assume is something with the shifter linkage or parking pawl. He also can't get the glove compartment to close again. After literally over a year now I was ready to get the car back and decided I would fix whatever other issues myself. Just before I leave to come pick the car up I get a call from Frank saying he took it for a test drive and that the car "won't pull" and doesn't go over 40 mph. He also said the temp gauge is pinging at 210 degrees(all new sensors) new waterpump, hoses, thermostat etc(no coolant leaks) .... but that he thinks it is a false reading as the hoses and radiator are reading 160-170 . He then said that he checked the transmission fluid and that it had none in it. He told txgr8white that it had a big leak when he solved the last issue in 15 minutes . So if it had a leak why wouldn't you inspect it before driving it? And just to mention the car never had any transmission problems or leaks in over 10 yrs of ownership or upon delivering the car to him. Im sure I also Paid a lot of $ to rebuild DME's(832$) when that wasn't the problem either(I suspected this but paid to fix them anyways) . He said he filled with transmission fluid but that it didn't do anything still not "pulling". He then tries saying that he feels like the engine isn't running right after putting your chips in Shogun and wants to go back to stock. My question is there anything he could have messed up by installing them backwards and trying to start the car?Txgr8white mentioned need to bleed the air out of the cooling system which I asked frank about and he said he "just checked that this morning" but I'm thinking shouldn't you have done that prior to driving it? It really appears frank just doesn't know what he is doing on this car and as Txgr8white pointed out appears to be more of a trial and error type guy. I wish I never brought the car to him. I wish I could get paid to break more things on cars and get paid to fix them lol! I gave him approval to to run my card for the labor when he said it was done and for me to come get it, which was $2850 and goodness I have to be at least $4k in parts by now. So after the call that it wasn't done I just assumed he had not payed himself as the car isn't "fixed" but when I checked bank next day sure enough there was the charge. So now after a year and now that he is fully paid what incentive does he have to finish? I guess you live and learn- should have not been lazy and slowly fixed the things myself - and I should never have given approval to run my card until after a thorough inspection of the vehicle. Car now has more issues than it ever did when I brought the car to him. Txgr8white has been a huge help and so thankful to be connected with him from this process at least. He has been kind enough to offer to take time out of his busy schedule to come to my house and help make a list of the things to do and troubleshoot the problems I'm having once I tow the car from frank. My problem is that I'm currently really short on time and have been working 50 hrs a week and my garage is a mess and not really set up to work out of right now. I have a 428 CJ engine I'm hoping to get out of the way and shipped put for another project I'm doing with my dad by this weekend. Thank you all for your input and allowing me to vent. Have a great day!

  24. #49
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    Maybe he mixed up the chips. One is for the EML and the other 2 are for the DME's. I made stickers on my chips, as you remember. The chips are the same and have the same number of feet, so theoretically he could have mixed that up. Or installed one chip the wrong way = the pacman on the wrong side. Make sure that the small divot in the new chip faces the same direction as the old one - it is possible to put it in backwards.
    http://twrite.org/shogunnew/upgrades...mlupgrade.html
    https://www.pelicanparts.com/BMW/tec...ip_Install.htm
    http://www.wokke.de/Chiptuning/Insta...hips%20V12.pdf
    Quickly locate electronic control modules, relays and fuses. E-box 750iL 1. ABS/traction control module 2. DME control module II 3. EML control module 4. DME control module I 5. Hood microswitch EBox750
    http://produkte.bilder-speicher.de/1...l-modules.html

    Install the old original chips for now, only when the car runs in perfect condition, install them again. You first have to get the car running and repair all the faults.
    "He put the dash together": does that mean he had the cluster out? Is the EML light coming on when you switch the ignition on and then it goes out? If not, limpmode. Check if all 4 plugs are connected at the back of the cluster.
    Take nothing for granted, check everything, maybe he mixed up again something, I just remember the comments of TxGR8White:
    "While talking to Frank, he indicated that he used Alldata to print out the wiring diagram (which has an error in it regarding fuel pump relay locations). Anyway, the locations of the plugs is only valid if they have always been put back in the same place. The way I figured it out was actually tracing each plug back to the wiring harness located on top of the engine valley, and not where the plug was located (they were in the wrong spots to begin with). On the second point, there seemed to be a lot of things removed in regard to the interior, which in my opinion was unnecessary"

    Maybe you first move the car to TxGR8White Sick Puppy Motorwerks https://www.facebook.com/Sick-Puppy-...6035099484055/ that they fix the most important items and get the car running again. Too many faults can be messed up by that shop you used.

    Temperature gauge could be a mix up of the 3 temperature senders, see the Bentley manual, one of for the EML, one for DME, one for the cluster gauge.
    Last edited by shogun; 11-07-2018 at 07:48 PM. Reason: additional info
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

  25. #50
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    I am not sure how Shoguns directions are setup, but in my 750iL the DMEs were physically reversed. Someone prior had handled them in such a way that when put back the wire harnesses were crossed. And I agree, sounds like limp mode to me.
    ______________________________
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