RM European Auto Parts
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 89

Thread: persistant cel and drivability issues

  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Albemarle nc
    Posts
    113
    My Cars
    1999 528iT
    Honestly, i began doubting my methods last night. So i got methodical this morning. Initial anomalies led me to believe that somewhere under the high temp sheathing to b2s1, there had to be a short. When i cut the sheathing, i found three spots that the wires were fused together. Im in the process of running fresh wires prior to repeating the tests.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Albemarle nc
    Posts
    113
    My Cars
    1999 528iT
    ok, so super methodical results. this is all B2S1 AFTER rewiring from the firthest damage found. depending on what y'all say, i may need to start at the DME connector itself with rewire.

    multimeter settings on my bosch multimeter
    ohms 20m
    volts 20vdc
    battery voltage at the jump points in the engine bay: 11.29
    ohms of wires between oxygen sensor plug and DME done with DME completely disconnected.
    voltage done with DME connected and key in run position
    ground test done with DME connected, key off


    x6002 connector pin/wire color/purpose per tis/v/ohm from female 02 socket to dme/ground ohms to jump point

    13/brown/B2S1 ground/3.95v/.5ohm, showed on signal as well/zero ohms to ground
    15/yellow/B2S1 signal/.42v/0ohm/.04ohm
    21/black/B2S1 heater ground/0v/2.0ohm
    ??/red/wht tracer/power?/11.17v/0ohm to ground

    im completely baffled by these results. hopefully one of you can find fault with my lethodology while I pull the DME and open it up for visual inspection

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Albemarle nc
    Posts
    113
    My Cars
    1999 528iT
    the following pictures show my DME. first is trhe case numbers, so we can confirm if its even the correct one.
    second, which is hard to make out, shows pin 21 completely melted, and pin 15 crispy. pin 13, however, shows no signs of damage. nor does anywhere else on the board show obvious damage. i can almost make myself believe that there are some unhealthy solder joints on the board, but its more likely contaminants in the solder giving brown spots.

    so i believe i need a DME at this point. how do i go about getting the correct one, with correct programming? is there something special i need to know? remember, my experience is with obd1 GM and megasquirt.

    20180826_114852 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

    20180826_115231 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Aberdeen, NC (yes, again)
    Posts
    23,673
    My Cars
    E39M5, E500 4WD
    I'm going to be looking at your results, as soon as I get back from town, but meanwhile : Charge your battery.

    12.6 to 12.7 is charged. 11.9 is 95 % discharged, so you have NOTHING. Let's start with a known good battery. (Yes, I know that's not the issue here, but we need a constant)

    (Your DME looks fine, of course. Abel can make a used one work, if we see that's what you need. You can't just buy one and have it work; the EWS (anti theft) system needs to be made happy.)

    Running into town, I'll check in later.

    Chris Powell
    Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
    Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
    BMWCCA 274412
    German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Aberdeen, NC (yes, again)
    Posts
    23,673
    My Cars
    E39M5, E500 4WD
    Oh crap, NOW I see the melted connection. I'm glad you sent your DME off to our friend in Conroe; he has successfully rescued MANY cars for me and my shop, and my fellow racers / instructors /friends. You're in very good hands.

    Chris Powell
    Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
    Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
    BMWCCA 274412
    German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Albemarle nc
    Posts
    113
    My Cars
    1999 528iT
    Smoke test this morning before work went to show that a need a better way to introduce the smoke into the system. Duct tapeing a spray paint can lid to the maf, drilling a hile, and jamming the tester in wasnt very repeatable or reliable. I did see some smoke at the ccv where the valve cover hose meets. Disconnect and reconnect made it go away, but with how much smoke was coming from the maf it may have been a fluke.....

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    St. Joseph, Mo.
    Posts
    3,000
    My Cars
    95 m3+, 03 ZHP, Mk4 Tdi
    just to clarify - you are running/introducing the smoke after the MAF, yes?
    '95 325iS - auto to manual swap done!

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Albemarle nc
    Posts
    113
    My Cars
    1999 528iT
    I was doing it pre-maf. Which turned out to be a mistake. Some sort of residue on it now. I'm grabbing a can of maf cleaner on the way back from work.....

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Albemarle nc
    Posts
    113
    My Cars
    1999 528iT
    Cleaned the residue from the maf.

    Drilled an oil fill cap to fir my smoke test probe, set my air pressure regulator to 3psi, plugged off the intake tube at the maf and the exhaust pipe with rubber gloves and zip ties, and let it run for about 15 minutes.
    The only smoke visible was from imperfect rubber glove seals. I could find NOWHERE else.

    Is there a problem with my methodology tjis morning, or am i doing it right and have no vacuum leaks?

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    St. Joseph, Mo.
    Posts
    3,000
    My Cars
    95 m3+, 03 ZHP, Mk4 Tdi
    what are you using to produce the smoke?
    sealing off the intake side is important.
    going from memory but 3 psi seems low.

    if you opened your oil filler cap did you have smoke coming out? had it filled the valve area?
    '95 325iS - auto to manual swap done!

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Albemarle nc
    Posts
    113
    My Cars
    1999 528iT
    I bought a smoke machine that came with fluid. The instructions had set 3 PSI so that's what I did. Whistling in the dark over here as I have never tried to do this before. I did not pull the cap off to see if it had felt the valve cover area. Should I retest it a higher pressure and then do so?

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    St. Joseph, Mo.
    Posts
    3,000
    My Cars
    95 m3+, 03 ZHP, Mk4 Tdi
    which smoke machine did you get? Just curious.

    i'd probably run the machine as instructed then.
    i'd want to make sure that i have a good volume of smoke, that the intake is fully sealed, the smoke is introduced in place of the MAF, and then at some point i'd open the oil filler cap and just see if i have a good amount of smoke on that side of the engine. that would tell me i have good pressure, good seal, and my machine was working.
    '95 325iS - auto to manual swap done!

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Albemarle nc
    Posts
    113
    My Cars
    1999 528iT
    Its an ebay special. 79 bucks shipped. Looks like a paint can with jumper cables.

    I can say that this thing produces a lot of smoke. Yesterdays testing filled the shop after a little while.

    If i can figure out how to introduce the smoke into the maf side without leaks, ill happily doso. However, ive failed miserable every try.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Aberdeen, NC (yes, again)
    Posts
    23,673
    My Cars
    E39M5, E500 4WD
    Greg, there is a new class of smoke machines....thank God.

    I sent one to Abel, as a thank you, for all he's done for me, and my friends. I haven't seen one for this price, but I can say that Abel seems to like his. I'm quite sure it's Chinese, but at 1/6 the price of the cheapest pro model, you've got to love it!

    http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBa...34853000&ver=0

    Duster, always remove the maf, and insert the smoke into a blocked system after that point. Removing the oil fill cap for a minute will allow the smoke to get to that part of the system more quickly.. The oil return hose to the dipstick tube is a big leaker, and it takes 7 minutes for the smoke to show there.

    Since your DME is in Abel's hands, Duster, just wait for the return of that item. Meanwhile, try to ensure your electrical connections to the O2 sensors are good, and have no shorts, lest you send 12 volts into the new DME's ground......

    Chris Powell
    Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
    Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
    BMWCCA 274412
    German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    12,462
    My Cars
    36 Cylinders
    Quote Originally Posted by bmwdirtracer View Post
    Greg, there is a new class of smoke machines....thank God.

    I sent one to Abel, as a thank you, for all he's done for me, and my friends. I haven't seen one for this price, but I can say that Abel seems to like his. I'm quite sure it's Chinese, but at 1/6 the price of the cheapest pro model, you've got to love it!

    http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBa...34853000&ver=0

    Duster, always remove the maf, and insert the smoke into a blocked system after that point. Removing the oil fill cap for a minute will allow the smoke to get to that part of the system more quickly.. The oil return hose to the dipstick tube is a big leaker, and it takes 7 minutes for the smoke to show there.

    Since your DME is in Abel's hands, Duster, just wait for the return of that item. Meanwhile, try to ensure your electrical connections to the O2 sensors are good, and have no shorts, lest you send 12 volts into the new DME's ground......
    I really do like it a lot. It's compact, makes its own compressed air, and has good power. Very portable too. All the plugs and adapters it comes with makes it easy to smoke at the intake tube post MAF.


    Also, the DMEs spent very little time at my house and are already on the way out since this morning.
    Last edited by 328 Power 04; 08-31-2018 at 10:19 PM.
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    St. Joseph, Mo.
    Posts
    3,000
    My Cars
    95 m3+, 03 ZHP, Mk4 Tdi
    that's on my list of things for the shop. i had to buy new track pads for the track car today - so, this got pushed down the list, but, its on there! they have one with a float/ball/level to show flow as well - didn't know if that was a nice to have or not necessary....
    '95 325iS - auto to manual swap done!

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Albemarle nc
    Posts
    113
    My Cars
    1999 528iT
    Quote Originally Posted by bmwdirtracer View Post
    Greg, there is a new class of smoke machines....thank God.

    I sent one to Abel, as a thank you, for all he's done for me, and my friends. I haven't seen one for this price, but I can say that Abel seems to like his. I'm quite sure it's Chinese, but at 1/6 the price of the cheapest pro model, you've got to love it!

    http://vi.raptor.ebaydesc.com/ws/eBa...34853000&ver=0

    Duster, always remove the maf, and insert the smoke into a blocked system after that point. Removing the oil fill cap for a minute will allow the smoke to get to that part of the system more quickly.. The oil return hose to the dipstick tube is a big leaker, and it takes 7 minutes for the smoke to show there.

    Since your DME is in Abel's hands, Duster, just wait for the return of that item. Meanwhile, try to ensure your electrical connections to the O2 sensors are good, and have no shorts, lest you send 12 volts into the new DME's ground......
    I have completely rewired the oxygen sensor circuit m ive alsp replaced that connection at the dme due to damage to the pins. Everything checks out with the multimeter now.

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Aberdeen, NC (yes, again)
    Posts
    23,673
    My Cars
    E39M5, E500 4WD
    It's a pleasure to see someone doing the job so correctly.

    Chris Powell
    Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
    Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
    BMWCCA 274412
    German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Albemarle nc
    Posts
    113
    My Cars
    1999 528iT
    so, time for round 2.

    i have confirmed that all the wiring to the 02 sensors are good now, and replaced the DME with one that isnt melted, and has all the updated software applied. car runs really great. except....

    the new CEL behavior is very strange. on the first drive cycle with the new DME (26 miles) there was no check engine light. shut the car off briefly, fired up again, and when the car hit ~20 MPH the CEL came on. P1188. this behavior repeats itself regardless of length or type of first drive cycle from code clearing. example: cleared code, drove 3 miles to gas station. refire, code. clear code, drive 140 miles with no issues or CEL, refire, code back.
    i hooked up the BMW scanner, and got the following codes (red boxes are current, yellow are shadow, whatever significance that holds.)
    where do i start now?

    Last edited by Dusterbd; 09-08-2018 at 06:26 PM.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Aberdeen, NC (yes, again)
    Posts
    23,673
    My Cars
    E39M5, E500 4WD
    The vast majority of codes take TWO engine-starts to set a Check Engine Light. When I test drive a car looking for a cod3e rest, I clear the codes, drive to the end of the street, shut it off, restart, and drive back to the shop. Secondary air codes need two COLD starts, evap codes might need a couple of drive cycles.

    Let's see what you've got:

    1) Secondary air: I'd be pretty sure that INPA can activate the secondary sir pump. Pull the hose off the pump, and use the computer to activate it. Does it blow forcefully when told to do so? Hook it back up again, use you hand to feel for leaks along the tubing. If no apparent leaks, I usually smoke test the plumbing anyway. Then: remove the driver's side cabin filter box and the big ventilation system air duct on that side. (If you don't know this procedure, please ask, or you might break it. It rotates, and has 3 weak plastic lugs.

    2) O2 sensor codes seem to be bank 1 only. A smoke test of the intake system would be high on the list. Also remember that your O2 sensors were bathed in unfavorable condition , probably open-loop, for a while. Try swapping B1S1 For B2S1, clear codes, see if the code follows the sensor.

    Hmmm, still a "no signal" for O2 B1S2.... In my experience, this is pretty much always an open circuit. Bad sensor? Try swapping B1S2 with B2S2, see if code follows sensor. In this instance, for testing especially, clearing the adaptations will help clarify the assessment, because you start from zero, instead of negative ten

    You can do this at the O2 sensor connector plugs....makes the test very easy.
    (Just make very sure that you mark both sides of each plug to keep your testing organized. I KNOW you're that way, but I had to say it.)

    3) Are you sure your intake cam sensor is correctly plugged in?

    That's my entire attention span for this moment. I would, for the moment, try to take each code individually. (Okay, I'd take a quick look at the wiring diagrams.....)


    Oops, forgot to say that if you have no secondary air leaks, and a good pump, next step is to use a mirror and a flashlight, after removing the cabin filter tray, to look at the vacuum lines at the back of the manifold. Did you have this code before?
    Last edited by bmwdirtracer; 09-08-2018 at 08:41 PM.

    Chris Powell
    Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
    Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
    BMWCCA 274412
    German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    12,462
    My Cars
    36 Cylinders
    Yellow squares show a code not present. But those shouldn't be there in the cloned DME (which I cleared of all 'cloned' errors, before shipping).

    The control deviation of bank1 sensor may still mean you've got some vacuum leaks somewhere.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Did you ever change your bank 1 sensor 1 (with a known good sensor)?

    You had errors for that bank's sensor originally.



    At least bank 2 stuff works now.
    -Abel

    - E36 328is ~210-220whp: Lots of Mods.
    - 2000 Z3: Many Mods.
    - 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual 47-50mpg
    - 1999 S52 Estoril M Coupe
    - 2014 328d Wagon, self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs
    - 2019 M2 Competition, self-tuned, 504whp
    - 2016 Mini Cooper S

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Albemarle nc
    Posts
    113
    My Cars
    1999 528iT
    Ok, i went back and looked through my error code records.
    I haven't found anything for the air pump. However the downstream no signal and b1s1 issues have been present the whole time.
    Intake cam sensor is new (didn't see it). Are some of these showing up now due to the updated software? Or because we fixed more glaring issues so the compjter is able to see smaller?

    As far as the secondary air, i found that the platic tube that goes from the valve to the pump under the bumper is mostly made out of electrical tape. It also appears that the pump is a simple power and ground connection. As i don't have inpa, could i just use my bench power supply to fire the pump to do diagnostics?

    I figure its probably a good time to clean the system internally as well. Is there a write up for that somewhere? My 80s chevys usually benefited from a cood cleaning.

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Aberdeen, NC (yes, again)
    Posts
    23,673
    My Cars
    E39M5, E500 4WD
    The bank 1 O2 sensor issues can be from several things.

    Firstly. I'm going to have to doubt that the wiring and sensors are okay, sorry. Since the last DME was burned, I don't think I'd have reconnected the same sensors, because if the wiring or heaters are shorted, you could burn up the new DME.

    Also, now that we have a Secondary Air issue, I'm REALLY worried. The secondary air pump relay works entirely differently than any other relay in the car. If, for instance, you swap a normal 5-pin relay into the secondary air pump relay's hole, you will melt the engine wiring harness, and possibly the DME.



    This is because an "ordinary" 5 pin relay joins 87 and 87a together when activated. The SAP relay changes between those two pins, never touching both at the same time....which is good, because one is an UNFUSED hot, the other a straight ground.

    Have a look at the diagram on the SAP relay, perhaps post a picture of that here, if you're not sure?

    Have I given you the link to factory wiring diagrams for your car?

    https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/

    Chris Powell
    Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
    Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
    BMWCCA 274412
    German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Albemarle nc
    Posts
    113
    My Cars
    1999 528iT
    Will check the relay, and do full diagnostic when i can get the car back in the bay.

    I did try something that gave me interesting results.

    I swapped the downstream sensor leads to see if codes followed. They did not.
    HOWEVER, after 4 key cycles, the only codes showing was all 4 sensors out of range. Which i exprct is normal with the leads being switched. Only other change was to clean all the connectors again with qd contact cleaner.

    But the ONLY codes were for the sensors being swapped. I, like a dumbass, didn't take a picture or write the numbers down.
    Does this lead anywhere, or am i barking up the wrong tree?

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Aberdeen, NC (yes, again)
    Posts
    23,673
    My Cars
    E39M5, E500 4WD
    I'm worried that the last DME was melted inside, and that you have a secondary air issue, even if that issue hasn't recurred - that we can see.

    Please, humor me, and go check the diagram on the secondary air relay. IF you have the wrong relay in that spot, it probably won't have killed this DME, because the wiring harness will likely be melted.

    I'm running out the door right now, but somewhere in here you should be able to find a location of the relay:

    https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/

    Chris Powell
    Racer and Instructor since, well. decades, ok?
    Master Auto Tech, owner of German Motors of Aberdeen
    BMWCCA 274412
    German Motors is hiring ! https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post30831471

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 325e Drivability Issue
    By amflyer1948 in forum 1983 - 1991 (E30)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-11-2010, 03:37 PM
  2. 95' 840ci CEL and other issues
    By MrT0m in forum 8 Series (E31)
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 09-15-2009, 09:59 PM
  3. CEL p0446 causing issues
    By thejet51rj in forum 1991 - 1999 (E36)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-02-2009, 06:14 PM
  4. Cold start misfiring, drivability issues
    By Warner in forum 1999 - 2006 (E46)
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 07-01-2009, 09:47 AM
  5. Another Drivablity Issue
    By Sainturtle in forum 1983 - 1991 (E30)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-02-2007, 09:04 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •