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Thread: E32 750iL Automatic gearbox problems.

  1. #1
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    E32 750iL Automatic gearbox problems.

    Hello everybody,

    Currently I am working on an E32 750iL with the notorious 4HP24 gearbox. The car is from 1986. The problem was that the car didn't go in reverse. 1, 2, 3 and Drive were working good.
    I have replaced the gearbox and with the "new" gearbox, it has reverse, but no forward. You can feel that the car is crawling forward at idle, but as soon as the throttle is pushed, the revs go up, but no forward movement. When put in reverse, you also feel the gearselection as you should feel. When gearselection is D, you don't feel it. Now for the strange part. The car has a selectorswitch with S(port), E(conomic) and M(anual). When this selector is in S or E, no forward movement in 1, 2, 3 or D. When selected M, 2, 3 and D work! But no first gear. If you have the car in D and you select the M mode, you also feel the selection on a normal way.

    Gearbox 1 has the number 1043 030052 and has an 7 pins connector. (GB1)
    Gearbox 2 has the number 1043 030034 and has an 7 pins connector. (GB2)
    TCM number is 0 260 002 069

    GB 1 is replaced with GB2. GB2 had no torqueconverter, so the torqueconverter from GB1 is put in GB2. Also the valve body and wiringloom inside the gearbox is replaced from GB1 to GB2 after experimenting the above mentioned problems.

    This is a complicated problem, but I hope somebody could help me out where to look into.

    The secret of a good bluff is not to bluff.

  2. #2
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    Roderic, I checked a bit more, it looks like this:
    1043 030 052 was used 01 / 92 - 03 / 94
    1043 030 034 was used 11 / 88 - 12 / 91
    1986 was just the start of the 750 and that definitely had a 8-pin valve body. So the one which came out was not the original one, therefore 7-pins. I assume the transmission control computer has also been changed
    1043 030 012 01 / 87 - 01 / 87
    1043 030 019 04 / 87 - 03 / 89
    1043 030 021 07 / 87 - 05 / 90
    1043 030 026 03 / 89 - 01 / 94
    1043 030 034 11 / 88 - 12 / 91
    1043 030 035 11 / 88 - 10 / 91
    1043 030 039
    1043 030 040 11 / 89 - 07 / 92
    1043 030 052 01 / 92 - 03 / 94
    1043 030 053 01 / 92 - 09 / 94
    1043 030 058 02 / 92 - 04 / 94

    I assume the transmission and the TCU transmission control unit do not match http://avtgr.ru/data/pdf/Technical_data_2015-07-31.pdf

    Let's see what the others have to comments. At the moment I assume not matching valve bodies and TCU.
    Torque converter does not matter, as long as it fits, and the 4HP24 has the larger dia. TC


    Copied from the German forum what matches:
    Beim 4HP24 ist es ganz einfach mit Steuergeräten. Zumindest was den V12 angeht.
    Das 009 ist das einzige was für das 7 Pin Getriebe passt.7 Pin Getriebe hat die 019 Stücklistennummer am Ende.
    Für die 8 Pin-Getriebe am V12 034 Stücklistennummer am Ende kannst Du jedes Steuergerät mit jedem tauschen.
    Erst der 750 Facelift mit der neuen Motronik hat das 266 Steuergerät. Stückliste am ende 052.Das betrifft erst mal nur die Steuergeräte.

    Getriebe kannst Du jedes 8 Pin Getriebe in jedem 750 mit 8 Pin Kabelbaum verbauen. Egal ob da jetzt ein 034 oder ein 052 verbaut war.Das Steuergerät arbeit zwar mit der Motronik zusammen aber da die Schaltgeräte im Getriebe alle gleich angesteuert werden ist es egal welche Stücklistennummer da drauf steht. Wichtig ist nur 8 Pin mit 8 Pin. 7 mit 7 Pin Getriebesteuergerät.
    Last edited by shogun; 08-14-2018 at 02:48 AM.
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  3. #3
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    It looks like you have a later gearbox installed. The original TCM will be commanding it to use certain MVs. But they may well be the wrong ones to make the gears engage. The only time the instructions coincide is probably second gear. Don't forget that the shift matrix - the bank of switches which tell the TCM that you are commanding D321etc - may also be different. Shogun has done all the digging and the conclusion is pretty clear - you need an 8 pin gearbox.

  4. #4
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    Got an email from Roderic:
    I have checked the vinnumber just out of curiousity and the car is from december 88. The info I got from the customer was a bit misleading. Customer brought a third gearbox today. This one has the number 1043 030 034. This is also a 7 pins version.
    I will replace the gearbox at the end of the week and will keep you posted.Do you know good sites or shops to buy rebuild kits? As I read that the reverse issue could be the F clutch.I want to try to rebuild the other gearboxes. Maybe also a good site or shop to get the wiring loom inside the gearbox as the plastics are so brittle and break even when you look at it.
    ----------------------
    my answer: My 750 is 11/1988 built date, it still has the older version with 8 pins. Maybe you contact ZF in Netherlands or Germany for parts. The plastic for the wire loom inside the valve body is always brittle and it breaks at the connectors, but that does not matter. Or buy from USA like https://www.thectsc.com/ but then you have to pay for shipping and import charges.
    ZF Services Nederland B.V.
    Distributieweg 7, 2645 EG Delfgauw, Niederlande
    Telefon: +31 15 270 2350

    or from U.K. http://www.sussexautos.co.uk/



    Kind regards,
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  5. #5
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    The wiring diagram supports what Shogun is saying - up to May 1989, you would expect the trans to have 8 pins. I think I have the BMW part numbers for the ZF gearboxes correct. But if so, there seems to be an anomaly in Realoem:

    ZF 1043030052 is BMW 24001219741. It replaces 24001216722 but not 24001218172

    Realoem shows that for a 12/88 Euro 750i, the part number is 24001218172 ZF 1043030034. It is compatible with 24001216722 and has 7 pins.

    I find it very odd that 24001219741 and 24001218172 are both be compatible with 24001216722 but do not appear to be compatible with each other. Either way, it would be interesting to find out which trans comes up when the VIN number is used

  6. #6
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    Probably with the online VIN decoder and realoem or bmwfan one cannot get those details like the ZF trans number. He has to ask a BMW shop to check that out, they can dig deeper into the system. For example for my 11/88 I got these details incl. the serial number of the 4HP24 and even the engine number
    Typ: GC81 750IL LIM AUT Produktion date : 17.11.1988 , engine number : 60514475, transmission no. : 0018725ZBU
    realoem tells me with my VIN: Exchange automatic transmission EH 4HP24-BU, up to 12/1988, 24001216722 (and that is 8-pin)
    I have another 8-pin 4HP24 here as spare from my parts 750 from 10/1988, just checked it, ZF serial # 000656 and the Stuecklistennummer is 1043 030 019, it has also 8-pins, I just double checked.
    These are Japan spec cars.
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  7. #7
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    Yes, I think you are right. I got the BMW part numbers for the 052 and 034 transmissions online from a few places. One was the Transmission Catalogue - Technical Data which I am sure you have too. But it cannot be reliable - you can confirm that the 24001216722 has 8 pins and we know that the 052 and 034 have 7. So neither should fit. OP needs to have a word with BMW as you suggest. Fortunately, it is not my old car - they could not even confirm what colour it was

  8. #8
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    Update from Roderic E34T, got this email:
    A new update. As we now figured out, the car is indeed in need of a 8 pins gearbox. I have found a 8 pins valvebody and replaced it in 1 of the gearboxes. It now has reverse and forward motion. So far, so good you would think.

    Now we have a new problem. The gearbox only wants to shift at 5000rpm. You feel that he wants to do it earlier, except he doesn't. Before installing the valvebody, I have cleaned it from the outside and cleaned the solonoids.
    The TCM that the car has, is the 0 260 002 069. Replaced it with 0 260 002 014 TCM and the gearbox stays in 3rd.
    Then I replaced it with 0 260 002 072 and he stayed in 2nd gear. Untill 6500rpm. Also replaced the maincomputer from the gearbox with the same computer. Placed a new filter and filled her up with new oil.
    Do I need to rebuild the valvebody? Or could it be something more easy?
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    So what is the opinion here on the forum?
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  9. #9
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    Here accdg to fault find "gear change functions faulty" they talk about sticking shift valves, governor dirty http://gershon.ucoz.com/ZF/powertrain-zf.pdf
    did you check the speed sensor in the trans? https://www.transmissionpartsdistrib...-0501-310-401/

    From Landrover info, which also uses the 4HP ZF:
    Output Shaft Speed Sensor
    The automatic transmission system incorporates an output shaft speed sensor which is an input to the TCM. This is a two wire shielded input and enables the TCM to compare input shaft speed (engine speed) with the output shaft speed. This comparison is used to determine which gear is currently selected and allows the TCM to accurately determine the upshift/downshift points and the duration of the shift, ensuring smooth gear shifts under all conditions. Figure 1 shows the transmission electrical connections and the resistance across all pins.
    http://84.22.143.158/files/%D0%A0%D1...n%20System.pdf
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  10. #10
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    Update.

    I have 3 4HP24 with a 7-pin valvebody and an 8-pin valvebody without gearbox.
    What I have done is, I took a good gearbox and replaced the 7-pins valvebody with the 8-pins valvebody.
    So far, so good. I have reverse and I have forward motion.

    The problem I have now, is with the forward motion. When the D is selected and you drive go for a drive, the gearbox shifts DOWN at 30kph (19mph) Untill I reach about 5000/5500rpm. Then there is a hard shift to the next gear.

    Computers used have the following numbers:

    Main computer (located next to the DME under the hood): 0.205.000.005
    TCM (located in right footwell, behind speaker): 0.260.002.069

    Also replaced the output speedsensor with one from the other gearboxes.

    Also cleaned the valvebody before installing.

    Has anyone got suggestions left where to look?

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  11. #11
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    The Bosch 0 205 000 005 is the EML for E32 750 i/iL, BMW P/N / Software: 1725388 / 28RT8389, 28RT8380/ 28RT8454, Vehicle applicability: E32 750i/iL V12 ,Engine: M70 B50 / 5012A Automatic VINs: #GB81#, #GB82#, #GC81#, #GC82# ;Reference numbers: 0205000005, 12711725388, ,12711725389, 12711725389,12711725391

    Let's wait for suggestions from the other members what to do next.
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  12. #12
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    Another remarkable thing...

    I have a 2 post lift. Had the car running and in the air. ASC turned of.

    If I put the gearbox in D I have to rev it up to above 3000rpm to reach 50kph (31mph). Same in 3 and 2.
    But when in 1, I only have to reach about 1500rpm to reach and stay on 50kph (31mph)

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  13. #13
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    Nobody? ;(

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  14. #14
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    What happens when you disconnect the program switch? I'm assuming it should default to E mode? And is the program switch the older 3 position style? I didn't realize that you can simply swap an 8-pin valve body onto a 7-pin tranny. Has this type of swap been documented somewhere?
    demet

  15. #15
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    When disconnecting or replacing the programswitch, the problem stays. Yes, it is the 3 position style. So The S, E and M.

    It is documented on several sites and also mentioned to me by various people who have done it.

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  16. #16
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    Could finally get access to the computer. The transmission has one error:

    5 Throttle-valve signal, accelerator-pedal position (pins 7 and 9 on SG)(with EML pin 32 on SG)
    Open circuit to short circuit to B-.

    Does anyone know what it could mean?

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  17. #17
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    Very good, that you got a computer now. Electronic experts have to chime in now.
    SG probably means SteuerGeraet = control unit, and according to this diagram it is the transmission control unit above the speaker A-pillar , pin 32 is shown here, says throttle position signal https://www.europeantransmissions.co...inout88-89.pdf

    7 throttle potentiometer signal, 9 throttle potentiometer supply, when you scroll down in the link, there are all test data available

    fly-by-wire EML explained http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/1267593/
    E32 Bentley Repair Manual shows the data for testing on page 130-45. EML Pedal Position Sensor Test
    pedal at idle position
    manual transmission 0.34-0.43 VDC
    automatic transmission 0.35-0.45 VDC
    pedal at full throttle
    manual transmission 3.1-3.3 VDC
    automatic transmission 3.7-3.8 VDC
    EML connector pedal position test pin
    M70 DME 1.2 brown/violet pin 1
    M70 DME 1.7 blue/brown pin 20
    M30 DME 1.3 blue/brown pin 20
    terminal numbers are molded in the EML connector face. These numbers are very small and may be difficult to read.
    set a gap of 3mm / 0.118 in. between accelerator pedal bracket and the idle stop.
    To check adjustment, peel back rubber boot from EML harness connector (round big plug left side engine bay close to the diagnosis port) and connect digital voltmeter between specified pin in connector and ground.

    diagrams how the EML works http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/1246335/

    cable problems? see pics http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/644209/
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  18. #18
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    After clearing the fault, it did not came back. But maybe it will return. You never know.

    I will do these tests and let you know.

    What baffles me, is that the car ran good in forward motion with the 7pin valve body. But did not have reverse.
    Now with the 8 pin valve body, it has reverse, but forward motion is as described...

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  19. #19
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    Just did the test.

    At idle it is 0.40VDC
    At full throttle it is 3.15VDC

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roderic E34T View Post
    Just did the test. At idle it is 0.40VDC, At full throttle it is 3.15VDC
    as per Bentley it should be: pedal at idle position: automatic transmission 0.35-0.45 VDC, pedal at full throttle: automatic transmission 3.7-3.8 VDC
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  21. #21
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    So that would mean that the idle position is good, but the full throttle is incorrect.
    Which means the pedal potential switch should be replaced?

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  22. #22
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    Check once more the detailed instructions in section 12-72/3.... adjusting accelerator pedal with electronic power control for idle position and full load position.
    https://www.bmwtechinfo.com/repair/main/481en/index.htm
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  23. #23
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    for once, i have this problem on my m30, but thats using TPS, i bought used TPS but mirror image, instead of on idle, it is on full throttle, and this forces the gearbox to shift up around 5500 to 6000 rpm..if i ever let go of the gas, it would down shift. so finding one with the same appearance is not the same, need to see the guts inside, i cracked open the used TPS and found out its a mirror image, meaning to say, my original TPS mounts from the left side. the used tps i bought, mounts from the right side. so this translates to my TPS as below

    Original - Used
    Idle - full throttle
    full throttle - idle

    but in this case, its electronic throttle. might need to take a look

  24. #24
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    For TPS, just last week a very experienced member + electronic expert on the German E34 forum with a 540 with 5HP30 posted this, and that you can see what a wrong throttle body signal can cause: Original text: der 40er mit seiner 5HP30 hatte ja schon seit längerer Zeit ein Problem bzw. Unschönheit beim Gangwechseln (Hochschalten). Letzten Endes wurde sogar das Getriebe getauscht, brachte aber auch keine Verbesserung. Effekt war folgender: Z. B. beim Beschleunigen auf ca. 50km/h (egal wie zügig) und Loslassen des Gaspedals erfolgte der anschließende Schaltvorgang 2-3 sehr ruppig. Der Motor war dabei beim Abtouren knapp über der Leerlaufdrehzahl. Gleiches Problem trat prinzipiell bei jedem Gangwechsel auf, wenn dieser im Anschluss nach einer Beschleunigungsphase erfolgte. Gangwechsel während der Beschleunigung waren unauffällig. Nachdem sich verschiedene Spezialisten mit Auslesen, verschiedenen Softwareständen der AGS, Umbau auf EGS, Überarbeitung des Steuergeräts, Spülen, Ölwechsel und Handauflegen an dem Problem versucht hatten, kam dann irgendwann die Resignation in der Art "is so - muss man eben damit leben". So ähnlich wie ein Dackelbesitzer, der muss auch damit klarkommen, dass die Viecher ein schiefes Fahrgestell haben. Bei der letzten Ersatzteilbestellung habe ich jetzt mal ein Drosselklappenpoti mitbestellt. Das verbaute Teil war vollkommen unauffällig und alle Messwerte in der Norm. Es waren auch keine "Aussetzer" in irgendeiner Stellung feststellbar (prüfen über Werte auf dem CAN-Bus). Laufeistung 235tkm. Trotzdem hat der Wechsel die fast vollständige Heilung gebracht. Ein kleiner Ruck ist noch vorhanden, aber im Gegensatz zu vorher kaum noch bemerkenswert. Begründen kann ich die Veränderung nach wie vor nicht, ich bin da vollkommen ratlos beim Zusammenhang zwischen Fehlerbild und Lösung.

    translation
    The 540 with its 5HP30 had been a problem for a long time respect. a problem when changing gear (upshifting). In the end, even the gearbox was replaced, but it brought no improvement. Effect was the following: For example, when accelerating to about 50km / h (no matter how speedy/fast) and releasing the accelerator, the subsequent shift 2-3 was very rough. The engine went during RPM down just above the idle speed. The same problem occurred in principle with each gear change, if this was done after an acceleration phase. Gear changes during acceleration were unremarkable. After various specialists had tried with software readout, various software versions of AGS, conversion to EGS, revision of the control unit, flushing the trans, oil change etc then at some point the resignation came in the way "if so - you have to live with it". Similar to a dachshund owner, he must also cope with the fact that the critters have a crooked chassis. At the last spare parts order, I have now ordered a throttle valve potentiometer. The built-in part was completely unobtrusive and all readings in the norm. There were also no "dropouts" in any position detected (check for values ​​on the CAN bus). Total mileage is 235tkm. Nevertheless, the change has brought the almost complete cure. A small jolt is still present, but unlike before hardly remarkable. I still can not justify the change, because I am completely at a loss.
    Shogun tricks and tips for the E32 series are HERE!

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