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Thread: Dlux BMW E21 build

  1. #201
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    Aug 2018
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    83 e21 82 E23 80 E12
    I got the motor in and running on Friday night. Pulled out in the driveway, cleaned the shop up, took a shower and tried to dream up any errand I could just to spend as much time possible in this car on Saturday.


    I pulled out of the drive way, feeling great, put it in 1st, gave it gas and heard what sounded like splines stripping. Unbelievable!


    After talking to Diggy Smalls​ (thanks buddy!), trying to figure out if I could be missing anything simple, it was right back to the shop to pull the trans.


    Never have I worked on such a stubborn car. Its as if it trying to beat me. I have news for it, its not going to win. I am one persistent SOB.


    I like to go on bike rides with my kids. One of my favorite things is hill climbs and pushing them to make it all the way up. I try to explain to them that there are different voices in their heads.
    One will tell them that it hurts too bad and they need to stop.
    I tell them they have to practice not listening to that voice. You have to keep pushing and tell that voice that you are in control, not it. Then when they attack the hills, I tell them they are being wussies if they quit. LOL. Pressure from me and also competing with their sibling really goes a long ways. They try so hard and I am so proud of them. Point of all this? Having kids is great because you get to take a look at yourself when you give them advice. How can I tell them not to be wussies and then be one myself? It makes me take my same advice.


    After talking to Diggy Smalls, I was not in the best space in my head. For some reason, it really helped to make a sticker to put on my bike rack. "No surrender". This is letting the car and the whole world know that I cannot be knocked down and out. I will get up again and again. Hopefully my kids will look at this sticker and remember some of the issues I had to work thru to get this car going and they can take that example thru their life and stay strong in times of need.


    I pulled the trans and found that the clutch disc split. New clutch is on the way and hopefully will have this car up and running this coming weekend.


    Bonus points to whomever can tell me where I got "no surrender, cant lose" from.







    Last edited by Erik Dlux; 05-20-2019 at 12:04 PM.

  2. #202
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    Austin, TX
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    1978 323i
    Thanks for the excellent story about persistence and hill climbs!

    I really enjoyed the book "The War of Art: Winning the Inner Creative Battle", it's filled with short and digestible thoughts about the nature of "Resistance" which are all very familiar to me

    What are your thoughts about how the clutch could break in that way? Manufacturing flaw?

  3. #203
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    83 e21 82 E23 80 E12
    Huh, I have obviously heard of that book a million times. I guess its time that I try and read it. I am not much of a reader though, my attention span hates reading. LOL

    I would guess resistance is natural to all of us. IMO, we probably all have it but the successful ones learn how to tame it.

    My best guess on the clutch is that I cracked it when I mated the trans? Even before I installed the motor almost a year ago now, this clutch made it very hard to put together. I had to force it together when it was only the trans and motor on the floor. This time, the motor was on the ground, inside the car along with the trans. I didnt make enough room in there for myself so it was even harder and probably took me 4-5 hours (!) to get to mate and it was not smooth at all. This time, I raised the car as high as jack stands will allow so I can have more room.

  4. #204
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    It lives to ride again!









    What a crappy couple of weeks! If you have not followed along, this car lost its engine and when I finished that, I didnt even get to put it into 1st gear when the clutch split in half! Needless to say, we have so trust issues to work thru. I hope I am done mechanically working on this thing.




    I got the clutch on Tuesday and got it installed.




    Motor seems to run much better than the old one. Oil pressure is a good 30-40 better at every RPM. I used to idle at 10psi and now idle close to 40psi. At start up, my gauge alarms out because it goes over 100psi! Having much more pressure at idle is really nice because it leaves my oil accumulator with 40psi instead of 10 and really eliminates those dry start ups.




    So, up and at em, couple bugs to work out but hopefully we are on the downhill from here.




    One little thing I did fix was the shifter surround. Like a lot of the plastic on the old BMWs, the screw holes are cracked or stripped. I tried to back these holes with some other plastic and that failed. The plastic just fell off. This time, I did some shaving and put some of those metal screw clips in. No problems at all this time. I think this is a final solution. I bought a huge bag of those clips off ebay for like $10 shipped too. Good stuff.











  5. #205
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    There were a couple of things I wanted to address with the car but when its running, you tend to lose a bit of motivation... Now with the engine being replaced and I had a day or two to wait for a new one, I did some other mods.




    One mod that I have done that I think is common mis information is the brake booster delete. Most the information I read is that most people think deleting the booster just makes it too hard to brake or that its unsafe. IMO, both are not true. Sure, the brakes are harder to push but its not a big deal to me. To me, its about the same as power steering vs, manual steering on this car. Power steering is going to be a lot easier but at some point, if its too hard to steer, maybe you should look into a gym membership and eating some steak? Same thing with the brakes. If its too hard, I wouldnt blame the brakes, I would blame your weak legs... I know this can sound weird but to me, a lot of the charm of this older car is found in things like not having power steering, a manual trans and every thing feeling older. If you can understand that, you might be able to understand that I feel having manual brakes is actually more fun to drive. Its like you can just feel the car more.




    Ok, having said that, the brake master cylinder that Chase Bays sent me was a .81 bore. It felt pretty good but I was a bit curious as to what a .75 bore would feel like (less flow, less power to the brakes,easier to push the pedal). I was not curious enough to buy a whole other brake master but then, I thought about my clutch.




    With my M10 motor and the same with this motor the pedal released about 1" from the floor. I wonder if all E21s have the clutch release really low to the floor? IMO, this makes it harder to drive. Less reaction time.




    I figured out that the E21 clutch master was a .75 bore. Knowing that I want a bit bigger bore I knew I could move the too big of a brake master (.81) to the clutch and get a smaller bore (.75) for the brakes. After knocking off the "filler" tube (horrible BMW design) off the clutch master a million times and getting brake fluid all over the paint, that is what sealed the deal. So, with just 1 master cylinder purchase, I get a brake MC and clutch MC running what ever bore I want and I get to have an actual reservoir on my clutch master. Sold!




    .75 stock bore









    Stupid stock filler tube that attaches to the brake master reservoir. Take a look and you can see how it leaks at the master cylinder.









    I ordered up a .75 bore Wilwood for my brakes and took my .81 brake master off for my clutch. I then made an adapter plate for the clutch mount












    I also had to make an adapter for the clutch pedal attachment. This lets me attach it to the stock pedal but also makes the push rod longer.














    I got that all done, went to put it in the car and the little part that attaches to the clutch pedel broke off. UGH. I am about done wtih the BMW parts on this car. The more vintage BMW parts that are taken off the happier I get!









    I replaced that original part with a common, easy to find, cheap female rod end.









    After testing it out for 100 or so miles, the clutch master is awesome! My clutch now disengages around half pedal travel. Its amazing how much easier it is to drive when its like this.




    The jury is still out on the smaller master for the brakes. Its easier and nicer to push for sure but I cant lock the brakes up 100%. One one side that could be nice as its sort of like an ABS system but I like to be able to lock them up and be in control myself. I am not certain that all the air is out. Once I can figure out if the air is out, I will decided on the master. I might go back to .81.






  6. #206
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    The other issue I had was the brake pedal being so close to the gas pedal. I dont remember this being an issue when I was 16 and driving this car but I am guessing a lot of other things were on my mind. LOL




    The stock pedals are just too close. You really have to angle your foot and even then, I often found myself hitting the gas and brake at the same time. I had to wear certain shoes and could not wear my boots. Being a size 14 wide does not help at all.




    Pretty simple stuff, I just took the stock brake pedal out, put some bend in it and put it back in. It netted out to about 1" more room between the brake and gas pedal.




    I cant tell you how nice this mod is! I feel like I am way more comfortable when I drive and I have all the room I need.














    Before:












    After:






  7. #207
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    E30M3,318is,318i,E21320
    I drove ours without driving shoes once to do testing. Nope, bout crashed when hit the brakes cause tapped the gas same time. Luckily it was low speed enough to correct. Driving shoes only for us

    Just last autox event Dad was really moving hot into a carousel turn, then went out of control. He comes into the pit like my shoe got caught lol. Only narrow special shoes for him too but I keep telling him to tuck in the laces. Now he knows why I keep saying that


    Erik is that the stock mount hole for the master cylinder? Most kits i've seen offset to increase the ratio and give the driver a bit of advantage. Some say it's similar to having a booster. Maybe try offsetting for better ratio like this. Also on the pedal lever make a new hole upwards of the factory one like this.

    Courtesy of Lee @ MassiveBrakes
    brake-booster-delete_4.jpg
    brake-booster-delete_1.jpg
    Last edited by autox320; 06-01-2019 at 06:40 AM.
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  8. #208
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    Yeah, interesting idea on the master moving it up. I will Jane to see if I can find time and motivation to try that

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Dlux View Post
    Yeah, interesting idea on the master moving it up. I will Jane to see if I can find time and motivation to try that
    Easy test would be the attachment of heim to the pedal itself. If can possibly move it up 1/4-1/2" with a new hole might make a difference. Easier to test. Then if works better make a new mount for the master to keep it happily inline at the offset position.
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by autox320 View Post
    Easy test would be the attachment of heim to the pedal itself. If can possibly move it up 1/4-1/2" with a new hole might make a difference. Easier to test. Then if works better make a new mount for the master to keep it happily inline at the offset position.
    Yeah, I will have to test that out if the time comes but... for now, something worked itself out yesterday so now my .75 bore, which is really easy to push, has full throw and I can lock up my tires when I want. I think some air got knocked loose finally in the system so I think what I am running now is ideal. Woot!

  11. #211
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    I'm going to have to re-read all of this. So much good work!

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Dlux View Post
    Yeah, I will have to test that out if the time comes but... for now, something worked itself out yesterday so now my .75 bore, which is really easy to push, has full throw and I can lock up my tires when I want. I think some air got knocked loose finally in the system so I think what I am running now is ideal. Woot!
    Thats good news man.
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  13. #213
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    I am ready to get this car tuned. Before I do that, I had to make the decision of whether or not I wanted to do any upgrades so I dont have to go back and tune it later.




    I hate regret so I decided to go with the intake spacer, ported intake manifold and then I was going to go with the Overkill 80mm throttle body. I also did the clean side PCV filter. After taking my throttle body off I saw it had a lot of residue on it. Oil is coming in from somewhere... got to put an end to that nonsense!









    I sent the spacer and the intake manifold to Kenny Camaro (on FB) and he match ported in spacer, manifold and 80mm TB. He is a good guy and will help you out if you need anything.




    Here is a shot of the intake manifold and spacer installed.














    This is a really easy job. Just about 1 hr to install everything.




    Here is a shot of everything disassembled and ready for re assembly.









    Here are some pics of the stock 72mm throttle body vs the 80mm. Huge difference.









    Should be a quick easy job, right? Well, not so fast!




    After assembling everything, I started the car and it ran horrible. After lots of figuring, I reduced it down to the throttle body being the issue.




    Overkill (http://www.getoverkilled.ca) is the one who sells the 80mm TB. I have tried to deal with this guy in the past for a tune. Its impossible to get him to reply to an email. Some of the worst customer service I have ever experienced. So, now having problems with his TB, I was not hopeful he would take care of me or even help. After talking to Kenny Camaro, who was very helpful, Kenny wanted to try another TB so he sent me another (on his dime without paying for the 2nd one). Kenny sent William (Overkill) a PM, he didnt help Kenny much, I sent William a email and he didnt help me either. It ended up that Overkill just left me hanging never getting back to me (again). I dont think he knew the problem, which is fine but there should be some service and support to reach that conclusion?




    It just sucks that Overkill is the only one in the LFX game for upgrades. If you need his parts, I dont know what you can do but if you can, stay away from his company. He obviously is not there if you need him.




    Ok, so moving on.... I sent the 80mm TB back and I had the stock 72mm TB ported. From what I understand, this may be the best move anyway in a sense. I have heard that people have dyno'd a ported 72mm vs the 80mm and there is minimal gain, like 1hp! So, you can spend $100 on the 72mm porting or $300 for the 80mm TB. Seems like the 72mm ported is not a bad decision...




    Here is a ported 72mm vs stock









    After install, there seems to be some gains, not huge though. From looking at the dyno sheets, it looks like there is only 15 or so HP gain overall but the middle of the curve is what really is helped. Hopefully a tune will really bring more out of this mod. If it doesnt, I dont know if its really worth the $600ish. Either way, I dont regret it. I would have always wondered if I didnt do it.
    Last edited by Erik Dlux; 07-18-2019 at 04:37 PM.

  14. #214
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    1981 BMW 320i
    Thank you for sharing this. Always great to be part of someone's build of passion. Clearly, my favorite part is where you shared your euphoria getting to drive it and the kind of joy and appreciation you have for this chassis and build. This definitely has opened my mind to the possibility and the virtue of swapping in a different OEM's engine. I am also seriously considering getting the Zender rear valence too, now that I see I great it looks on your e21. Best of continued luck on this build! Cheers! -Shawn

  15. #215
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    Thanks Shawn! I am glad some are enjoying the non standard thread

  16. #216
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    Been awhile now but I do have an update. I was able to finally get this car tuned.




    What took so long? Well, mostly it was the ECU and figuring out which is best to run.




    There is a lot of information out there on the LFX swaps but its all scattered. IMO, one of the hardest things to figure out was which ECU to run in general.




    If you read, I think most guys are running a ECU from a 2012 Camaro and on top of that, the info says it MUST be from a manual car.




    Now, let me preface this by saying that I dont know a single thing about tuning so I could be missing something super simple.




    Here is what I found with the ECU's.




    All of them are E39 service #12643248. I dont know if the service number matters, I got it because I was told it did matter.




    2012 - Camaro - Manual

    This ECU ran with a high idle no matter what I tried or what I messed with in the settings. It would do a cold start and run at a good idle until it got warm and then it would idle around 2k RPM.




    2012 - Camaro - Auto

    I actually got this ECU to run really well. It did have one slight issue when I shifted. I would put in the clutch and the RPM would go up maybe 200 RPM and then come down. Not really a huge issue and it was actually kind of nice because you could time your shifts and it would shift slowly. One thing I read online is that you cannot get an auto ECU to read the VSS signal. This is not true. I got mine working just fine. If I had to run this ECU, I would be fine with it.




    2015 - Camaro - Manual

    Ironically this was the best running ECU for me. The motor and trans are 2015 Camaro so I guess it makes sense. I dont know why all the online info and aftermarket cater towards the 2012....? The only issue I could find with this ECU was that the alternator did not want to charge. I just hard wired a 12v ignition source to the alternator and that took care of that problem. Car runs beautifully on this ECU with no hiccups. Oh, on the 1st motor I had, it did have a weird issue on start up it would sputter around 3k RPM until I restarted the motor and it would run fine. The weather was a good bit colder then so I hope it does not come back. Right now, I cant be more satisfied with the way the car is running.




    All 3 ECU I could not get the MAF sensor to read. My MAF sensor has voltage and ground, so I think its in the tune...




    I had Etuned performance do a remote tune for me. Reuben was awesome to work with and I would not hesitate to look him up on Facebook if I needed another tune.




    So, in the end, with intake spacer, ported intake, ported throttle body and tune, I might be looking at 375-400hp at the crank and hopefully around 300hp at the wheels. It seems about perfect for this car. I am still thinking about NO2 though. LOL






  17. #217
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    Having had time to enjoy this car now for about 4 months and 4,000 miles, its time to start finishing up what I started. Just a couple of things left...


    First time I ever saw E24 seats in the back of a 2002, I knew I had to have them.


    One of the hardest and most elusive parts I have had to search for is a set of E24 (633CSI) rear seats and arm rest. I had to have black and they had to be in great shape. Most of what I found were either the wrong color or horrible shape. Even the ones in not so good of shape can go for $500 or so. That seems crazy to me.


    I got super lucky and found a set for $350 and they are in really, really good shape. I have been putting black shoe polish and leather conditioner on them for a couple of weeks.



    Last edited by Erik Dlux; 10-24-2019 at 10:05 AM.

  18. #218
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    I got the E24 seats roughed in. Still need to do all the trim work, parcel shelf and some touch ups.




    I made a bracket to span the two mounting points on the E24 seats and that bolts to the stock E21 mount. I am going to drill a hole in the back of the E24 fiberglass and E21 trunk so the back is secured.




    You can see in the pics just how much I had to take from the fiberglass and the "foam"

















    Last edited by Erik Dlux; 10-24-2019 at 10:10 AM.

  19. #219
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    More work done on the back seat project...


    I am a far, far cry from being an upholsterer but am moving forward...


    I ended up adding a screw hole thru the back "handle" type thing on the fiberglass on the seats. I put a screw thru the trunk also. This really firmed up the seats and also places them exactly in the arm rest where they need to be. Before, they could move and be a tiny bit off and it really bothered me.


    I added E24 receiver buckles in the arm rest. I was trying to be cheap and see if I could implement the E21 buckles but they are just too specific. Since I added the E24 female sides in the buckle, the E21 male sides are not compatible so, I need to find some E24 male sides and then hope they bolt in where the E21 ones did. I love the integrated E24 buckles in the arm rest. Not only for function but also looks.


    The biggest project of this weekend was the rear parcel shelf. Its done and I also added some 6.5" speakers to replace the stock 4x6. I am excited to listen to it and hear the difference.


    I need to finish up the foam/vinyl on the sides of the seats. It actually does not look too bad without it though.



















    Last edited by Erik Dlux; 10-24-2019 at 10:12 AM.

  20. #220
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    My favorite part on the E21 is the interior and the way it makes me feel but my second part is the looks, the body and the way all the doors, trunk and hood shut so nicely, even after all these years.




    I do have one major gripe on the E21's looks though. The rear end. I just have never liked it. I have always thought it was the trunk area and being too soft or round....




    One mod I love is the clear turn signals on the front of the car. I think it makes it look so much better. With that rational, I figured the rear would look so much better also with some clear tail lights.




    I shipped some stock lights off to China to see if I could re produce them in stock colors and clear. I was shocked to see the cost so unfortunately, I bailed on the project.




    I started researching how to make my own mold to make my own tail lights but then, just last month, I saw some custom, clear rear taillights and knew I had to have them.




    They are on, and I love them! I actually love the back end of this car now! I think it fixes all the things that I didnt love before.











  21. #221
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    Well, I am coming close to the end of my part of this build. The last thing I have on my list is to finish the E24 rear seats and make a pass thru between the E24 seats for my subs.




    First thing to address were the seat belts. The E24 female does not fit in the E21 male, or vice versa. So, I had to figure out what to do there. The E24 male/housing didnt look like a straight bolt in so what I figured out was just to take the nylon webbing part of the E21 out of the seat belt housing and replace it with the E24 nylon webbing, pretty straight forward. I will show pictures of how you pull the part out of the housing. This ended up working perfect.














    Second thing I had to address on the E24 seats to get them finished up was the problem that there are 5 mounts on the console. The two holes up at the top are easy, just drill a hole in the E21 trunk and pass a bolt thru. You cant do it on the 2 bottom ones though because the hole enters in somewhere under the car where its actually hidden, so, I didnt even use those. The 5th is in the center front of the console and its so flimsy that I didnt use that either. What I did is make some small brackets that bolt in where the seat belts bolt on to the console and then welded these to the car. I figured this was actually the safest and strongest method.









    Now to the sub box and the pass thru... This means I have to cut a hole in the trunk area and make a specific sub box. I can hear the purists tears from here. BTW, this car is 100% rust free. Cant wait to hear the crying about how I have to build a car the way others want. LOL


























  22. #222
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    I agree the rear end of the e21 is pretty weak. Can you take a step back and get a full shot? Its definitely a new look to me

    Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Dlux View Post
    I can hear the purists tears from here. BTW, this car is 100% rust free. Cant wait to hear the crying about how I have to build a car the way others want. LOL

    I would hope that doesn’t happen. My car was running when I got it and I chopped it to pieces haha!! I think they would be more angry about the engine choice still. I’m sure they can over look the other small things!

  24. #224
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    Yea we don't talk about my euro Bumper install. Yikes.

    Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaredmac11 View Post
    I agree the rear end of the e21 is pretty weak. Can you take a step back and get a full shot? Its definitely a new look to me
    Yeah, I will try and get some pics for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by AndronPrime View Post
    I would hope that doesn’t happen. My car was running when I got it and I chopped it to pieces haha!! I think they would be more angry about the engine choice still. I’m sure they can over look the other small things!
    IMO, there are always purists out there and they always freak out about not keeping things stock.

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