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Thread: Dlux BMW E21 build

  1. #126
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
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    Sacramento, CA
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    1979 E21 320i
    Ridiculously expensive bought alone, but the only time I’ve ever seen a ‘bad’ one is one with a torn rubber boot. They’re very overbuilt for the application. So I would recommend getting the trailing arms as a whole assembly used if that’s interesting to you, then just swap the hubs put for the e28 ones otherwise you’ll get an offset change of 8mm outward. The calipers are bolt on conversions to the e28. There’s a specific year range for them, after 95(?) the trailing arms changed to a different setup to accommodate a new hydraulic suspension design. Mine are from a 92 or 93. So for $70 at the junkyard I walked away with everything including the calipers, lines, trailing arms, and used rotors.

    Double check that the rotors are vented. Some mechanic cheaped out on mine the first time and slapped solid, smaller rotors on with a different caliper.
    -John

  2. #127
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Battle Ground, WA
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    294
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    83 e21 82 E23 80 E12
    Good info man. Thanks!

    E32 makes you 8mm wider? Somebody was telling me they narrow you up?

  3. #128
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
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    1,077
    My Cars
    1979 E21 320i
    Probably me, I messed up which was which and got it backward
    -John

  4. #129
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
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    Battle Ground, WA
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    Dlux BMW E21 build #48




    http://www.stanceworks.com/forums/showthread.php?102392-Dlux-BMW-E21-build&fbclid=IwAR0ppbHhvMrrRQ-HJh9LWVebSumghx3ROtZNU5rvJTWdMBm2L0Gu3JsnlUE




    Drive line parts came in. I am really stoked about these parts!














    I was able to find an adapter for the transmission side. The adapter gets rid of the rubber guibo (which I am not a fan of) that is huge and IMO creates problems. Its a solid aluminum part that mates to a 1350 series Spicer flange. One of the best parts of this is that it has a smaller diameter than the rubber part it replaces. If you remember I had really tight clearances there, now, I have zero worries.

























    On the diff side, I found a flange that mates to the stock BMW flange and it carries a 1310 series Spicer joint. I cant tell you how stoked I am to have a driveline that uses all Spicer parts and a standard Spicer slip joint!




    I really like the fact that I can find these parts in the middle of nowhere and there is no chance of them becoming obsolete like many of the BMW parts.




    Strong, cheap, easily replaceable or modified. Right up my alley.




    Parts used in order from trans to diff:

    Driveshaftshop Part Number: CTSPL6 trans flange

    Flange Yoke 1350 series, 4x .438 Holes on 3.750BC, 2.750M pilot 3-2-119

    U-Joint - Outside Snap Rings SPICER 1350 Series 5-178XS

    Tube Yoke 1350 series, 2.500 X .083 W tube 3-28-47

    2.500" x .083" Tube

    Tube Shaft Ø1.375x16 spline, Ø2.500 X .083 Tube 2-40-1711 Slip Yoke 1310 series 1.375x16 spline 5.375 Centerline to End 2-3-128KX

    U-Joint - Outside Snap Rings SPICER 1310 Series, Greasable 5-153XS

    Fort Wayne clutch and driveline BMW flange adapter to 1310 1310 SERIES - BMW STYLE DRIVESHAFT 4 BOLT CONVERSION FLANGE YOKE - SKU# R2-2-4811 Rockford driveline

    I did have to modify the BMW flange to fit the BMW diff. The website says that the pilot hole should be 1.849" but mine measured 1.861" so it obviously didnt fit. I also had to take a hair off the length of the pilot. I am not sure if I got a bad one or just the way they are?















    Last edited by Erik Dlux; 02-14-2019 at 09:56 AM.

  5. #130
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Bentonville, AR USA
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    497
    My Cars
    91 318is - 83 320is
    I'm no welding expert, but the weld technique you use worries me a bit. From what I see you are a short burst welder, stacking the beads you form VS a continuous bead. I would worry about stress cracks forming due to the hot/cold nature of your style welding especially with a driveshaft. Again, I'm no expert, but with a driveshaft being under heavy stress it seems like a rotary welding setup within a fixture would be your best option. I'll assume with your skill set you have measured run out and made it as straight as possible though, but it just seems worth mentioning.

    With that said, you appear to understand the nature of what you are doing. Maybe at least put in some sort of safety loop to ensure if things go pear shaped you are protected?
    91 318is
    83 320is

  6. #131
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Battle Ground, WA
    Posts
    294
    My Cars
    83 e21 82 E23 80 E12
    They are continuous welded.

    Been welding for 20yrs on rock crawlers that use 42" tires and highly abused and dont have failures on anything. Not the first driveline I have built either.

  7. #132
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Bentonville, AR USA
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    91 318is - 83 320is
    Fair enough. With that kind of experience I have no doubt you know what you are doing. My apologies.
    91 318is
    83 320is

  8. #133
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    Aug 2018
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    Battle Ground, WA
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    No need for apologies man. You have NO idea how often I get that comment. LOL. Most think they are pulse welded.

  9. #134
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Toronto, ON, Canada
    Posts
    165
    My Cars
    1980 BMW 320i
    Quote Originally Posted by Somjuan View Post
    Ridiculously expensive bought alone, but the only time I’ve ever seen a ‘bad’ one is one with a torn rubber boot. They’re very overbuilt for the application. So I would recommend getting the trailing arms as a whole assembly used if that’s interesting to you, then just swap the hubs put for the e28 ones otherwise you’ll get an offset change of 8mm outward. The calipers are bolt on conversions to the e28. There’s a specific year range for them, after 95(?) the trailing arms changed to a different setup to accommodate a new hydraulic suspension design. Mine are from a 92 or 93. So for $70 at the junkyard I walked away with everything including the calipers, lines, trailing arms, and used rotors.

    Double check that the rotors are vented. Some mechanic cheaped out on mine the first time and slapped solid, smaller rotors on with a different caliper.

    I don't know the quality of used parts in your area but in mine, they tend to be very crusty so in my case, unless I am planning on doing a full overhaul, it makes sense just to buy rebuilt where possible.

    For my E28 rear conversion, I bought Turner's E34 540i brake kit which is bolt on to the e28 trailing arms and has vented rotors. They also seem to be a good match to the E36M3 front brakes that I will be running.

    https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3...8-e24/?pdk=AwE

    In terms of the E32 trailing arm bearings, there is chatter online that the OD of the e32 trailing arm bearings can be machined down to the OD of the e28 trailing arm bushings and thus will fit into the e28 trailing arm sleeves. Personally, I don't know if I believe this so I am planning on building a jig in order to weld sleeves to fit the stock e32 trailing arm bearings as I have spent way too much time rebuilding my late model rusty e28 trailing arms. You've clearly got great fabrication skills so if you go with the e32 trailing arm bearings, you can go either way.
    Last edited by EauRouge2002; 02-15-2019 at 06:43 PM.

  10. #135
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    2,126
    My Cars
    E30M3,318is,318i,E21320
    Liking the driveshaft. Looked up the flange pieces and a bit pricey. I guess doable if it's my only option I do like the idea of making a custom shaft one day. Eliminating the flex disc (guibo) is a good idea only if with a u-joint like you've done.

    Any pics or info on the front piece with the slip joint? It goes into a already made cap to the main shaft tube to weld in? I ask cause i'd have to buy that piece also to be concentric. Did you measure runout when welding up have a jig etc? I laid mine when shortened in a piece of angle, then rotated with a dial gauge on it. Worked well enough but just asking since you obviously made a few of these. Thanks.

    I'm sticking with the 4bolt flange and 8 hole flex disc for now. As I removed mine to redo my shifter. The shifter link destroyed my flex disc. Took it apart it is in 6 pieces lol. When this factory shaft wears out (rear ujoint usually) I'll be in the market for a custom preferably diy make our own.
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  11. #136
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Battle Ground, WA
    Posts
    294
    My Cars
    83 e21 82 E23 80 E12
    Spent the weekend trying to finish up everything in the rear end. I got everything done besides getting the half shafts installed. Emergency brakes installed, new brake lines throughout made, camber and toe set, half shafts rebuilt. Another 30 min or so and I should be ready to move on. I have about 6 weeks into this rear end/fuel lines/brake lines. Amazing how long everything can take.




    I had to address the lower shock mounts. The E21 uses a 10mm bolt and the E28 uses a 14mm bolt. This makes it so the shock wont go on the 14mm bolt obviously. The E28 also uses a single sheer setup (which I hate) so I wanted to see if I could strengthen it up a touch since its going to have to be spaced approx 3/4" to clear the high off set and width of the wheel.




    When I was mocking everything up and cycling the suspension by hand (shock not attached) I found that the shock would reach a pretty good bind when fully compressed.




    So, I set off to fix all these issues. My fix was to cut off the ends of the coilovers, put some rod ends on for the misalignment and then make some spacers that press into the E28 housing, sleeve the bolt and make it stronger. In hindsight, I would have made the spacer with a bit more meat towards the rod end to help strengthen the bolt even further.




    From left to right

    Stock setup, rod ends that I am going to modify to, 14mm bolts, 10mm bolt, 10mm shock lower mount after it was taken out.









    After modifying for rod ends. Really close to the same height as the E21 setup gave









    Both shocks done









    Spacers made. You can see the part that will press into the E28 housing and strengthen it up.



















    Then here is a shot at full compression. Maybe 1/16" of room between the shock and wheel?









    Full extension









    I really wish there was a super simple way to make a uniball on the top of the E21 shock like it is in the front. I dont like the idea of getting misalignment out of a shock by stressing the rubber bushing.




    Lastly, going back to the driveshaft, I had to make some spacers. The threads in my adapter are 3/8" bolts and the holes in the flange are .433" or 11mm so I made the little spacers to take up the slack.





    Last edited by Erik Dlux; 02-18-2019 at 11:30 AM.

  12. #137
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Battle Ground, WA
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    83 e21 82 E23 80 E12
    Quote Originally Posted by EauRouge2002 View Post
    For my E28 rear conversion, I bought Turner's E34 540i brake kit which is bolt on to the e28 trailing arms and has vented rotors. They also seem to be a good match to the E36M3 front brakes that I will be running.

    https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-3...8-e24/?pdk=AwE
    Man, for the price, if you need new parts, might as well go with those vented ones just because BUT, do you see a reason to go with them otherwise? My thinking was just that the E21 drums were just fine, thinking non vented E28 discs should be overkill and those would be over, overkill?

    Good to know all these options exist though for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by EauRouge2002 View Post
    In terms of the E32 trailing arm bearings, there is chatter online that the OD of the e32 trailing arm bearings can be machined down to the OD of the e28 trailing arm bushings and thus will fit into the e28 trailing arm sleeves. Personally, I don't know if I believe this so I am planning on building a jig in order to weld sleeves to fit the stock e32 trailing arm bearings as I have spent way too much time rebuilding my late model rusty e28 trailing arms. You've clearly got great fabrication skills so if you go with the e32 trailing arm bearings, you can go either way.
    Yeah, I did read that the E32 bearings could be turned down to fit the E28. Just not enough info out there and the cost of the bearings turned me away.

  13. #138
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
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    Battle Ground, WA
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    83 e21 82 E23 80 E12
    Quote Originally Posted by autox320 View Post
    Liking the driveshaft. Looked up the flange pieces and a bit pricey. I guess doable if it's my only option I do like the idea of making a custom shaft one day. Eliminating the flex disc (guibo) is a good idea only if with a u-joint like you've done.

    Any pics or info on the front piece with the slip joint? It goes into a already made cap to the main shaft tube to weld in? I ask cause i'd have to buy that piece also to be concentric. Did you measure runout when welding up have a jig etc? I laid mine when shortened in a piece of angle, then rotated with a dial gauge on it. Worked well enough but just asking since you obviously made a few of these. Thanks.

    I'm sticking with the 4bolt flange and 8 hole flex disc for now. As I removed mine to redo my shifter. The shifter link destroyed my flex disc. Took it apart it is in 6 pieces lol. When this factory shaft wears out (rear ujoint usually) I'll be in the market for a custom preferably diy make our own.
    Do they make an adapter that goes from the BMW trans output to a flange that uses 13xx joints? I would think that would be the only thing holding somebody back?

    They make the slip yokes in all sorts of lengths, spline counts, u joint sizes etc,. Pretty much get whatever you want. Since I will only be using the slip of the joint to install and maybe some chassis flex, I kept the slip as short as possible.

    http://media.spicerparts.com/cfs/fil...store=original

    http://media.spicerparts.com/cfs/fil...store=original

    My thinking is pretty simple, probably too simple for most on making a driveshaft.

    You have a couple of things really working for you to keep things straight when making your own shaft. You have the surface of the tube yoke that is machined and straight and when you press it into the tube that has a machined straight surface, these two surfaces make it really hard to be off side to side or anything else. Both surfaces force them straight. Now, on top of that, you also get the press fit which is the inner walls of the tube and the outer diameter of the tube yoke. These surfaces will also force it to be straight. When you add all of them together, I think its really hard to make something with run out. Or maybe I just have been lucky?

    I double check before welding by measuring from the ear of the joint to the other end of the drive shaft. I do this on both sides to make sure they are as close as possible. I also lay a long straight edge on the joints cap surface and this runs the straight edge along the length of the shaft. You will see if it takes off to the side or goes in closer to the shaft.

  14. #139
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
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    NC
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    E30M3,318is,318i,E21320
    If not afraid to make a custom top rear shock mount, then anything is possible. Top heim on shock and make the mount inbound offsetting to give more wheel clearance. That's what we did. Shocks ended up close to the rear tower opening once cut the tops. With your machining skills could get fancy making a encapsulated monoball rear mount that is offset and bolt it in.
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  15. #140
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    Yeah, I looked at it. I just didnt think the work was worth the reward. I am pretty happy with how it turned out.

  16. #141
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    Not a ton to show but still getting things done.




    Rear is totally complete. Camber/toe set, half shafts in, driveline installed and buttoning up a bunch of other random stuff.




    On to the exhaust. I am about 30% done now. I hope to have it done along with some other progress this weekend.



  17. #142
    Join Date
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    NC
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    lol looking at your exhaust system I just received my V-band clamp for the header as well. I've never had a need to use Vband before so this will actually be my first. Tired of the slight leak of the large stainless bands. Most noticeable after full WOT and getting out of the throttle.
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  18. #143
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    For sure man. I love them! I have used them on builds before.

    I wanted them so I could put them where the exhaust will probably get hit and dented. Makes for removal and fixing really simple. No gaskets to replace either.

  19. #144
    Join Date
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    I didnt get as much done as I would have liked but the exhaust is complete, which feels great. Insert "I am exhausted joke". No more significant time killers on this build, just a bunch of small things to button up now.




    Funny, I am getting closer to being done so I made a list and that list had everything on there including the estimated time to get it done. Nothing is getting done within those estimated times. LOL. I put down 8hr for the exhaust and I think I came in closer to 14? Its just crazy how everything takes so much longer than you think it will. I think this is why everybody thinks everything should be cheap when its hand made, they think it will take 1/4 of the time and effort as it does? You just cant understand unless you do the work I suppose?









    I put the exhaust up as high and tight as possible around everything so it took some time to build. The only part that I didnt have to spend much time on or have much concern about clearance was in the engine bay. Tons of room there. Pretty much put the down pipes anywhere you want. O2 sensors have tons of space too. The lack of headers is pretty awesome.














    High and tight around the trans to help break over.














    If you look close, you can see how close I was able to get it to the drive shaft. Its right up against it.














    The worst of it is where I had to travel under the subframe. Not much clearance at all there. I estimate about 3" of clearance at ride height. I thought about going above the sub frame but that meant chopping up the floor of the rear seat and cutting out the emergency brake housing. I just didnt feel up for doing all that work just to have a hot rear seat.














    Then out the back














    In hindsight, I wish I would have gone dual 2.25 all the way out the back. It would have given more volume and also another .250" of clearance all the way around. I may redo it in the future. It should work fine for now.

  20. #145
    Join Date
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    1979 E21 320i
    Hnnnng. Looking good! If I had a nickel for every time I thought something would be quicker than it was I’d never pay for a project again
    -John

  21. #146
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    91 318is - 83 320is
    Exhaust looks great. After just going through the half assed version on mine that took at least 6 hours, I can see why you have 14 hours in it. Interesting on the lack of header too. Never noticed or knew that was a thing.
    91 318is
    83 320is

  22. #147
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    Radiator, catch can and oil accumulator all mounted and lines ran except for oil accumulator.






  23. #148
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
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    California, East Bay Area
    Posts
    96
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    1978 320i
    Hey Erik. I was hoping to get some information from you! I have my subframe built and I just got my differential in and idk if it’s just be but it seems slightly off center when sitting in the subframe. I’ll post some pictures. Tomorrow when I have some time. I was curious as to if yours was the same.

  24. #149
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    If you're talking about being off side to side, yes. The pinion has to be offset to go against the ring gear so it's not directly in the middle. Took me a minute to figure that out too

  25. #150
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    1978 320i
    Ah ok! That makes a lot of sense: I sat there for awhile measuring everything trying to figure out where I may have messed up.

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