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Thread: Vibration/roaring in low RPM in 1st, 2nd gear and reverse ! Worth changing diff ?

  1. #1
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    Vibration/chattering in low RPM in 1st, 2nd gear and reverse ! Worth changing diff ?

    Owing a 1992 525i for 5 years+ , last year I was happy to find a low mileage - 115,000km - 2002 manual 530i in good condition, steel blue, a great addition to my auto E34
    However I started to run into some - hopefully small issues - with the car.
    Alternator had to be rebuilt last year , preventively I did the spark plugs and manual fluid transmission as well.

    Now I have 2 issues :

    1. The engine vibrates in low RPM in 1st gear, 2nd and reverse as well as long as I don't rev it higher.
    The car doesn't vibrate but the engine makes a roaring sound like if it would be a diesel or a tractor.
    Same when I do circles in 2nd gear and low rpm.
    Initially I thought it was the power steering pump, at least that I was told as the car was doing that as well : in idling, on neutral if I was turning the steering wheel all the way left or right I was hearing a roaring noise every time.
    After I changed the PS pump - with a used one from internet - that didn't dissapear so I thought that the used PS pump I got is defective as well.
    One week later having to replace the belt my mechanic noticed a very noisy pulley. That pulley was to blame for the roaring when I had my wheels turned all the way with the car sitting on neutral.
    However nothing changed when I took off in low RPM or reversing or doing circles ... car still sounds like a tractor.

    I checked all the mounts - engine, tranny - ... everything is perfect there.
    My 530i doesn't eat any oil at all, no leakings , dry like a bone underneath.
    CCV can't be to blame as there's no whistle sound when I take off, no oil consumption, besides that car hasn't been driven in the winter almost at all as far as I can't remember from the previous owner who had it for mostly of the time, since 2005 or so.

    Somebody told me to clean the throttle body. I plan to do that but I don't feel that this would change the situation.
    The engine sounds pretty good - before replacing the pulley I was hearing a bit of growling noise coming from the aux belt area but now it seems to be pretty OK -

    What can be to blame ? Any input would be much appreciated !
    Can the release bearing be the cause of that ?
    Or assuming the PS pump which I had and the used one from ebay are both bad ... can they be too blame for that ? When i take off in 1st gear then 2nd I keep the wheels straight.

    2. I have hunted for 2 years + a low mileage manual E39 inline 6, 528i or 530i.
    I have bought this but I might have passed it as, despite the low mileage - 75k miles right now - the clutch isn't too good.
    I didn't realize that last year when I bought it as I thought that the clutch can't be the same with the clutch from my daily driving car - Toyota Yaris - or clutches from 2004 - 2007 ACCORD i4 and V6 or ACURA TSX/RSX which I tried before.
    I like the soft clutch of E39, it engages the gears when it's almost to the bottom, but readingl that this is a self-adjustable clutch, that doesn't mean it's like new.
    I find the release of the clutch too sudden though. It's very hard to depress it smoothly so that the car won't shake a bit.
    Besides the shake there's also a bit of clunky noise underneath. I thought it was the release bearing so I have to replace to clutch but this weekend my mechanic crawled underneath and noticed a bit of play from the drive shaft ... once he was rotating the drive shaft I heard that clunky noise and he said that the differential had the same play as well ... he said that is very minimal maybe 1/8th of a turn. So it's the diff not the joint.

    It's annoying to hear those little clunky noises almost every time when you depress - or even press - the clutch in low gears especially if the car isn't revved too much.

    Is it worth to change the diff ? Hard to find a perfect - with ZERO play - diff with the same gear ratio like mine 2.93 or close - 3.15 from a manual 525i - as manual 525i or 530i are not too many around. On the other side the diffs which were on auto cars are probably good with no or little play but auto 525i and 530i have a 3.46 ratio.
    I read a few threads about fellows putting a 3.46 diff in a manual 530i. Not sure if this is good ... everybody is happy to have a much faster car but you loose 10-15% in fuel economy, engine will be more stressed being 400-500 RPM higher on the highway plus you might loose the cruise control option.

    Or should I just keep my differential which still has a minimal play and makes a bit of noise ?

    Am I too fussy expecting to have a like brand new car with zero issues while I only paied 6,700 CAD - approx 5,000 USD - for it last year ?
    The car handles great, not sure if/where I can find other car with so much refinment in terms of handling and comfort together ... no suspension noises, no oil consumption or leaking as I mentioned before ... great fuel economy 7l/100km - 33.5 mpg - on the highway in the summer and 10-11l/100km in the city so 22 mpg !
    I have 17' BBS rims on it and I changed the rear 13mm sway bar with a 15mm one from a 540i sport.
    Last edited by radu1976; 08-19-2018 at 10:34 AM.

  2. #2
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
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    As the poster child for long posts, ironic for me to say... TL;DR.

    Have you ever pull any codes? Don't work on one of these without pulling codes.

    Is your visco (mechanical) fan OK? They can lock up and run all the time and cause noise and vibration. And eventually break and send blades through the hood.

    Sounds like your mechanic is a random dude. A proper BMW independent mechanic will be able to diagnose what is normal or not normal in the driveshaft area very quickly. These cars have "Guibos" and center bearings on the driveshafts that wear out and get clunky and vibratey, as well as the other end bits of the driveshafts. Thats 100x more likely than you have a bad diff, which would be pretty rare for a 530 at those miles. The whole drivetrain has some normal 'lash' that is totally fine but a BMW mech will know what is normal and what is out of normal range...

    Re: clutch engagement, BMW fitted manual cars in this era with something we call a "clutch delay valve", and people generally hate it and take it out (its easily removable, requires no fancy replacement part, you just take the pipes off either side then join them up directly). Search for "CDV" its all over the place. If your car still has that it might be making the clutch more finicky.

    That's all I got time for now...
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  3. #3
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    How are your engine and diff mounts?


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  4. #4
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    Engine and tranny mounts are perfect.
    Geargrinder, thank you for the hints.
    Main fan is fine, rusty when its connection but just fine.
    First I took the car for a 1/2hr test at one of the European cars shops from Red Deer - my city is the 3rd largest of AB, pretty small -. They could find in 1/2hr no solution but they said it's not something I should worry about that.
    1 month ago I took it then to the other European cars shop locally as well ; they charged me nothing and they are the ones saying that it's the power steering pump to blame. They listened at the stetoscope once the car was jacked up and they were fooled by the noise coming from exactly the same area where the pump is ... I think that the bad pulley was the one driving the PS pump.

    In the weekend I took the car to a Calgary mechanic who did many things on my E34 - very experienced 61 y.o. guy working for 30 years + on BMW from 70s, 80s, 90s and 2000 - 2006 BMWs. He's the one who changed my belt and noticed the noisy pulley. Have to drive 200 miles to get serviced by this guy.
    Last year he tried to connect his scanner to my E39 but he said there was no communication.
    After doing the work this weekend he said he upgraded his software so we can try to scan the car again ... We should have done it right away but he let me know that after I was at home with the car.

    I will pull the codes here in Red Deer at one of the 2 shops and asked them to remove my clutch delay valve. I hope after removing this the clutch won't have such sudden release which makes the car shake - almost - every time when I depressed it.
    I will ask them again to check the driveshaft.
    Last edited by radu1976; 08-13-2018 at 12:52 PM.

  5. #5
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    What I’m struggling to get at here is you seem to have engine vibrations and then are talking about the driveshaft / rear end....

    Which is it?


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  6. #6
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    On the Fan being "FINE", Did you check the fan clutch on the mechanical engine fan (the big one that is driven by the belts? All the blades still attached? any cracked along with the pulley itself? SEE "News Paper test" for DIY test procedure on the clutch. By the way if the fan is bad it will ROAR in neutral as well. Loader with RPM increases. No need to go anywhere and there are no codes being set on failure.
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  7. #7
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    Scottieducati : there's vibration in low RPM - 1st, 2nd gear, reverse, even in the 3rd one at round 2,000 RPM - and there's also clunking noise when releasing or even sometimes depressing the clutch.
    I've got an appointment for checking the driveshaft - 1/2hr booked time -
    They told me that as long as there's no light on the dash, no codes will come up. So no issue here. My issues are mechanical not electrical.

    Stephen, thank you for the hints in regards to the clutch fan.
    Well, the Calgary mechanic removed the clutch - without taking it out - in order to change that noisy pulley. He would have noticed if something is wrong with it ... no blades missing for sure, no idea if there are cracks in the pulley. I can't take the clutch fan by myself as I don't have such big wrench.
    I found the 'newspaper test' so in a few days will try to check the fan
    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...achs-and-Behr)

    In idling the engine sounds OK but I feel like there's still a bit of extra additional chattering noise - coming from the fan probably ? - even after the bad pulley was replaced.
    It was worse last year before the alternator was rebuilt.

    The shop guys told me that in regards to the vibration I am to blame as I don't rev the car enough ... I am changing the gears after 2,000 rpm and not around 3,000 rpm as they said I should. Well ... when driving a YARIS all the day long switching the gears between 1,500 and 2,000 rpm to get good fuel economy in the city ... it's somehow hard to remember that the ultimate driving machine should be revved 'a bit' more.
    But all I know it's that the vibration/roaring is there and this is not normal .
    Last edited by radu1976; 08-19-2018 at 10:35 AM.

  8. #8
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    I did the newspaper test : the fan stopped was stopped by the bent newspaper after a while. However, according to this : https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...achs-and-Behr) my fan works good. I did the same test for my E34 525i as well and that one was stopped too. that one is running fine as well and there are no noises in low rpm though - it's an auto -
    Everybody around told me that my chattering/rattling noises in 1st, 2nd gear reverse in very low RPM isn't coming from the clutch fan at all but from one of those : clutch disc/pressure plate, release bearing - less probable - or maybe u-joint or center bearing from the driveshaft.
    I will have the driveshaft to be tested on TUESDAY and I will ask them to remove that CLUTCH DELAY VALVE - if that thing is still there - Maybe the bad was already done by that valve and my disc is used so that's why I can hear that chattering when releasing the clutch and the engine is labouring in LOW RPM.
    Last edited by radu1976; 08-17-2018 at 05:16 PM.

  9. #9
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    I had a bad roar under same circumstances. I found a lion. He was standing alone with a tadpole in a jar.
    hope this helps!
    ~2001 540i/6speed~
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  10. #10
    geargrinder's Avatar
    geargrinder is offline Having No Trouble Here BMW CCA Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by topaz540i View Post
    I had a bad roar under same circumstances. I found a lion. He was standing alone with a tadpole in a jar.
    hope this helps!
    Points awarded.
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  11. #11
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    I bet it was hungry, the ones from V8s always are !
    ENG is not my native language as it can obviously be seen. It took me a while till I realized that the chattering noise was more relevant for what I have in my car.

    Quote Originally Posted by topaz540i View Post
    I had a bad roar under same circumstances. I found a lion. He was standing alone with a tadpole in a jar.
    hope this helps!
    Last edited by radu1976; 08-19-2018 at 11:15 AM.

  12. #12
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    Too much Chattering? Check for female passengers
    ~2001 540i/6speed~
    Schmiedman M5 headers, SPEC stage2+ kevlar clutch, JBR 11lb lightweight flywheel, ESS Tuning m60 manifold software tune, 3" SS freeflow OBX catback, afe cold air intake, m60 intake manifold, Cdv delete, powerflex urethane sway bar bushings, M5 rear sway bar ,Autozone replacement driver side blinker light bulb, 545 short shifter zhp weighted, "dsc off" sticker, m5 3.15 lsd differential, m5 chassis rods, akebono ceramic pads, G2 caliper epoxy, ecs braided lines, BC-Racing br-plus series w/swift springs 8/6~
    On the night that I go back in time, you will be shot by terrorists. Please take whatever precautions are necessary to prevent this terrible disaster.

  13. #13
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