Hey y'all. This is my first post here, and I'm hoping for some advice. I drive a 2004 325i and I absolutely love it, but I'm feeling a little discouraged financially about this car. The car was a gift from my mother after she bought a new car. Instead of selling this one, she gave it to me with about 95k miles. I've had it for two years and it now has 115k miles, and is starting to give me some issues.
So, in short, my parents are much more well-off than myself. I'm not exactly poor, but the car is starting to have some mechanical issues that are causing me to consider selling it in favor of something like a Honda or Toyota that will be cheap to fix when something goes wrong.
I just took the car to my local dealer to replace the expansion tank (bad coolant leak, couldn't find it myself). $800. They quoted me $8000 worth of suggested repairs, which is much more than the car is worth.
My service engine light has been on for 6 months. I had the O2 sensors replaced in January. Another $800. Light came back on 1 week later. The car seems to be running fine. Dealer said DMTL pump is causing the light. Car seems to be driving fine, haven't had any issues with that as of now.
Drivers side front and passenger side rear windows will roll down, but not up. Dealer quotes $600 for each window motor repair. I can probably replace them myself but it seems like a pain in the ass.
Basically what I'm asking is, is this car a ticking time bomb? Should I just trade it in and get something a bit more reliable and cheaper to maintain?
I am somewhat mechanically inclined, but nothing professional on gas engines by any means. I work on a tour boat and deal with routine stuff on diesel engines on a day-to-day basis (oil change, coolant, filters, routine maintenance stuff).
If you were me, making $30-40k per year, would you keep this car or get rid of it? Can I count on it to run for 200k+ miles? Am I too poor to consider this car a viable option?
I feel,your pain my 525 it needs some things done, but I can work on it my self and I work in the industry. Really the bills will keep coming. Sell it and buy a Honda or Toyota, they are very reliable. I love my BMW but I would love it more if it didn't need so much attention.
That's a bummer to hear, but it's pretty much the decision i've come to on my own. It will be hard to part with this car though. I love driving it so much, and I know a Honda or Toyota isn't going to be nearly as fun to whip around.
First, quit taking it to the dealer for this stuff. Find a good indy shop. That will save you a good amount right there. Next, if you are mechanically inclined you can do most of the work yourself. Look at the DIYs, there are tons of them. Also, use this forum and search for any issues you are having and find out what others have done. You'll hear alot of people say that owning a BMW is a financial commitment. True, but there are several ways to maintain these cars without shelling out alot of money. They are great cars. Don't be afraid to get dirty. You'll get a great deal of satisfaction by fixing problems yourself. Or maybe you just not that type of person. If that's the case get a honda.
I just reached 200K on my E46 (2002 325i) - and we have beat the hell out of it.. I just replaced my window motor (very common) and that stoopid expansion tank (everyone has).. It took a few hours - no sweat..
Learn to do a little work yourself - all cars under $10K are gonna have issues - yes even Camry and Civics..
Also - Quit going to a stealership - these things are so easy to work on - bring it to a private local mechanic.. a lot better quotes.
Great car for a DIYer. Not great for the owner who wants to pay a dealer. Take it to a good independent and the needed repairs might be fewer and much cheaper. If you don’t want to do that, sell it and buy a Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, etc.
To put it bluntly,
if you are not mechanically inclined,
and not willing or able to DIY for all maintenance/repairs,
except for the most technical or those that require an extensive tool/equipment collection,
then I would recommend not owning a BMW, I'm sorry to say.
There are two keys to owning a BMW that's out of warranty without losing your shirt.
1. When it comes to the maintenance schedule, follow the stereotype of Germans being orderly and meticulous. Except that there are a couple "unofficial" replacement items on the list as well. For example, BMW claims automatic transmission fluid never needs to be changed, but the transmissions will last longer if you change it regularly. Same goes for certain plastic cooling system parts.
2. Know when to do the work yourself, when to have an independent shop handle it, and when to take it to a dealer. The last category is very rare, but there are a few cases where it makes sense. For example, the local BMW dealer could do alignments better than most shops short of Grand Turismo East and charged a better price than a normal tire shop. Those window repairs? If you're reasonably mechanically inclined, get a Dorman part from Autozone and swap them yourself; you can probably pull that off in an afternoon.
Matt Cramer
1997 BMW 328i convertible, 1972 Chevy C10 pickup, 1966 Dodge Dart slant six
BMW - where "Why doesn't everybody build cars the way they do?" meets "Why can't they build a car the same way everyone else does it?"
$800 for an expansion tank! Did they at least provide some KY for you? Jesus...
Your biggest problem is you are taking it to the DEALER
Get on facebook, join a local BMW group, ask about fair priced reputable independent mechanics. Take your car there. I run a shop and we would charge about $350 in labor for the expansion tank AND window regulator.
They didnt earn the name "stealership" for nothing
OP, to put it bluntly,
you need step up and use your "somewhat mechanically inclined" skills,
as you seem to have, considering you perform preventive periodic maintenance on a diesel tour boat,
and DIY on all repairs you consider to be a "PAIN IN THE ASS"!
That is if you want to put in the blood,sweat & tears that it takes,
to both perform most repairs and enjoy the thrill of operating-
The ultimate driving machine!!
Other members have said it all, and I agree with the fact that Japanese cars for e.g are much more reliable (than most if not all non Japanese marques, not only Bmw's), but again it depends on how much time you're willing to put into it and whether you somehow appreciate it or not. Youtube and this forum are amazing resources for DIYers and if you do most of the things yourself money will not really be an issue.
I have owned two Bmw's an E36 318i and my current E46 "3XX" as I like to call it. I have had to deal with issues that never occured to me on any other brand I have owned before, like the infamous windows, coolant issues, power steering, and heck even an engine (never blown an engine before). But the thing is I'm coping with it because 1) I have never driven a more pleasant marque so far, even having owned the fantastic Honda ITR 2) I'm actually "forcibly" learning a LOT of things thanks to them, not being wealthy enough to take it to the dealer 3) That's a matter of taste but the looks are in a class of their own, especially up to the E46/E39/E38 generations.
If I might suggest a good "in between" that would allow you to enjoy the best of both worlds: sell the E46 and look for a really clean E30 or E34 (preferably the former) that has been well maintained by its owner and has a clean service history. I understand that they are much more reliable and somewhat representative of the "rock solid" Bmw era, when they were a bit like Honda's and Mazda's are (hurts to say that )
P.S. : about the blown engine, I believe that one had nothing to do with Bmw's reliability as engines are one of their strong points, but rather with the fact that the previous owners had maintened it VERY poorly and we later found out that it had overheated and already been opened when I bought it. Having a very limited choice in terms of 6 cyl/manual combos in Morocco, I really had no other choice than buying it and being prepared for what might come up.
Last edited by Breeze1; 08-27-2018 at 04:39 PM.
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters." Alan K. Simpson.
5spd E46 "3XX": 328i engine, 330i Intake and exhaust, CAI, 323i diff.
Moved from BMW General Discussion sub-forum.
04M3 TiAg 69k slick-top 3 pedal
99M3 Cosmos 61k S50B32 euro 6Spd
88M3 AW 43k miles Project FS
WTB: 3.5" Eurosport/Conforti CAI
I currently drive an E36, but have driven E28,E30,E32,E34,E36.. I really love driving BMWs. There aren't many cars that are both practical and are tempting to drive, and give you the feeling you're connected to the road. If I haven't driven my BMW a few days, I just want to drive it.. That won't happen with a (practical) Toyota.
With regards to reliability and amount of work, I have to be honest.. Even the E30 and E34 are no match to for example a Toyota Avensis (first generation, +/- year 2000, 2000cc engine). My father in law drives one. It's very lame to drive, the car has no "soul" at all. But, the reliability is awesome. In the 10 or 15 years he had the car he only had to replace wear parts like brake discs, brake pads. No suspension parts, no exhaust, no radiator, nothing. It's just really impressive. And it's a big shame that BMW engineers can't even get near to this quality, even with their German engineering skills.
True, the E30,E34 cars are very reliable, but for example the cooling system and the suspension will still need a complete refresh every few years. But definitely less electric gremlins than more modern BMWs.. But with many Japanese cars you won't have any of these problems at all.
So, I would suggest to go test drive a vanilla Toyota Avensis (not sure if it's called differently in the US) with the smallest amount of options.. If it's a well maintained car, chances are you'll be able to drive for years and years without trouble.. But be prepared.. There will be no smile on your face when you get out of the car. And then decide what is most important: having fun while driving, or feeling confident that everything keeps working..
And, like others said.. Don't go the dealer.. Find a local mechanic.. The prices you paid are 100% to 300% too high.
Also, if you are unlucky and something big needs to be done to the Toyota, you also won't like to go the dealer.. And I think parts prices are a lot higher also, but you'll need a lot less parts.
Last edited by ed323i; 09-06-2018 at 11:19 AM.
1997 E36 BMW 323i (European) 275k km (171k miles), with following small mods:
- Chip tuned DME (190HP/257Nm); 328i dual pipe exhaust (plug&play); Meyle HD control arms, Bilstein B4 shocks
- Fan delete mod: Stock 92C thermostat, 80/88C temp. switch, 80/20% water/coolant; INPA says temps 100% OK
- Throttle body coolant hose delete mod; Comprehensive ASC Delete option list; Solved: -30 additive adaptation values
the same stuff I ever have had to change on my e30s, I also have had to change on my 97 v6 camry, one is no better then the other.
I will tell you though, the 4 cylinder Toyotas are so crappy to drive. we had a rental 2017 corolla and I only put 27 miles on it because it was so gutless. our 97 v6 camry though, that's fun for acceleration and once I do some suspension work, it should be fun in the curves, too. but, its a much larger car than an e30 or e46 so just be aware of that with Camrys. pre 96 was the smaller body style with the v6, similar to an e30 and the camry guys say they feel the road like a real sports car.
but maintenance wise, even with Toyotas you will work on stuff. prices are similar to bmws in a lot of areas and some are more, some are less. that's just life.
so far, the most dependable vehicles I have ever owned were an 85 f-150, 95 jeep Cherokee, 89 325i, and this 97 v6 camry. (the earlier v6 (pre 2000 or 2001) camry engine is not an interference engine so if your timing belt breaks, it won't require a new head or engine). and Toyota makes a supercharger for the v6 camry that puts the hp up to 250 instead of 180 or 190. I bet that's a blast to drive and they are as much a sleeper as an e30 is when you do some mods to them.
No e30s again.
I agree that different generations of vehicles have different reliability rates,BUT
BMW's in general,or in comparison to many modern vehicles,DO require more maintenance/repairs-once they are out of warranty.
My recommendation for BMW ownership is once vehicle is out of warranty,
the owner had best be mechanically inclined or enjoy wrenching,
OR have a healthy wallet/appropriate credit card balance, this is a fact.
About Japanese cars, some Honda's are a blast to drive too, and still manage to be extremely reliable : Integra type r DC2, Civic type r with the K20 engine, S2K... they still lack two things IMO compared to Bmw's: RWD (except the S2K) and 6 cyl engine (except the NSX but well...it's an NSX ). They make up for that in other areas, such as a light weight, GREAT manual gearboxes, very lively engines going up to 9000+ RPM (with a great sound for a 4 cyl), a torsen LSD in the ITR ...
I also remember driving one of the first generations civics, a small 2 doors hatchback with a 1.6l DOHC but non VTEC engine, making 130hp. The thing was a fury, like a mini race car lol.
Last edited by Breeze1; 09-07-2018 at 07:22 AM.
"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters." Alan K. Simpson.
5spd E46 "3XX": 328i engine, 330i Intake and exhaust, CAI, 323i diff.
this is true, some of the Asian cars are a blast to drive also.
No e30s again.
The basic mechanicals of your car are quite robust, the engine is good for well past 200k miles with even moderate care. Having said that it is/was an expensive car so repairs are going to be more costly than a Toyota. A dull driving experience is the price you pay for those Japanese appliances.
A car this old should be serviced at an independent shop rather than the dealer, especially the one that quoted you for repairs.
It is still a DIY car if you care to learn, have reasonable mechanical intuition and aren't afraid to get dirty. I'm curious about the $8k laundry list. Want to bail out? PM me, I'm in the market for a car and don't mind repairs.
Last edited by ross1; 09-10-2018 at 05:15 PM.
If you can leave two black stripes from the exit of one corner to the braking zone of the next, you have enough horsepower. - Mark Donohue
ExtraChill,
Really sorry to hear about your BMW. I have a 1997 E36 M3 and also drive a 2000 Acura Integra GSR. The Acura (Honda) is like a tank. It's very well built, runs like a champ, and needs very little to no maintenance. It is my daily driver. My BMW on the other hand, is the complete opposite. In the 5 years of ownership it has come with a heavy maintenance cost in terms of my time and the cost of parts. I have spent more time replacing brakes, power steering hoses, fluids, sensors, filters, and trim pieces than I have ever spent on a Honda. The Honda has really just needed oil changes, brakes and typical oil gaskets that wear out. Why do I still drive the BMW? Glad you asked. My E36 M3 is an awesome driving machine - a night and day difference compared to the Honda. The driving experience is like no other and it puts a smile on my face every time I drive it.
I get compliments on my car all the time and folks ask for my opinion when it comes to BMW's and my response is always the same. If you want to drive a BMW, you have to pay to play. Meaning, you have either graduated to a level where you can do most work yourself or you are ready to pay someone a nice buck to repair it for your. Either way, the BMW comes with a cost, but the satisfaction of driving such an awesome machine is worth it.
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