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Thread: Newbie looking for track car advise

  1. #26
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    my son started doing DEs when he was 15. When he was 17 we did one season of NASA TT and spent about $15k just doing 3-4 TT events,one road trip for a DE at RA and 6-7 other DE days in one year. We used my existing e36 m3 racecar. just make sure you understand what you are getting into. a weekend will run you about $3k. Tires, gas, entry fees, brake pads, hotel and meals. with two drivers the car takes a beating. especially at a DE doing double stints. My son just turned 21 last week and has been an instructor for over a year so we save some money on the DE side. he also has his own e46m3 now and pays his own bills. we have left the racing/TT side of this until he gets out of school and we will build a WRL car. the time together has been great and would pay twice the amount again for the bonding we share. PM me, happy to take a phone call if you want.
    Doug (BMWCCA HPDE Instructor, Respect My Authoritay!)

    1999 Titanium Silver M3 track Rat
    2017 F250 Powerstroke
    2004 M3 Widebody, LS

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CABimmer View Post
    my son started doing DEs when he was 15. When he was 17 we did one season of NASA TT and spent about $15k just doing 3-4 TT events,one road trip for a DE at RA and 6-7 other DE days in one year. We used my existing e36 m3 racecar. just make sure you understand what you are getting into. a weekend will run you about $3k. Tires, gas, entry fees, brake pads, hotel and meals. with two drivers the car takes a beating. especially at a DE doing double stints. My son just turned 21 last week and has been an instructor for over a year so we save some money on the DE side. he also has his own e46m3 now and pays his own bills. we have left the racing/TT side of this until he gets out of school and we will build a WRL car. the time together has been great and would pay twice the amount again for the bonding we share. PM me, happy to take a phone call if you want.
    I'm also running double duty. The cost per minute is pretty high when you look at this crazy sport... I have not had a failure yet on track; just lots of in-between maintenance as mentioned in my previous posts. We have been taking a somewhat open checkbook approach to reliability and safety and despite all of that, things are breaking.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CABimmer View Post
    we did one season of NASA TT and spent about $15k just doing 3-4 TT events,one road trip for a DE at RA and 6-7 other DE days in one year. We used my existing e36 m3 racecar. just make sure you understand what you are getting into. a weekend will run you about $3k. Tires, gas, entry fees, brake pads, hotel and meals.
    I'm sprint racing with NASA Spec3 and my expenses are far less than $3k. Probably below $1,000 per weekend including entry fees, tires, gas, brakes, hotel and food. The contingencies really help with tires and brakes.
    Last edited by OCRentAPopo; 08-20-2018 at 09:32 AM.

  4. #29
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    The Spec3 vendors are also a huge asset to those of us running E36s outside of Spec3. Our car has the Spec3 exhaust and runs Spec3 pads.

  5. #30
    Def's Avatar
    Def is offline Lead Disagreement Eng PE
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    I would not get an E30 or E36 at this point unless it was already well prepped and you were getting it for a steal. The cars are just OLD at this point, and that means A LOT of maintenance work to get it up to snuff for track abuse. Like replacing all possible wear components on a 20+ year old chassis.

    E46 M3 is nice, but again, they're getting old, and they were kinda maintenance heavy when new when faced with a lot of track work.


    Miatas are fun, but they are definitely no where near E36 M3 or E46 330 speed even in the yellow group at a DE. Even if you had the slowest driver in the group in the M3, and the fastest driver in the Miata, the M3 is going to turn faster laps by quite a margin if both have the usual suspension/brakes/tires/mild power bump. On a 2 min lap for the M3, the Miata will be more like 2:10-2:15. Yellow group (2nd from fastest for non-Texas guys) drivers vary in speed, but not by that much. Also, same thing applies to Miatas, most of the cheap ones are pretty old at this point, and you must do a rollbar etc. to go on track.



    A BRZ/FRS is a decent option if you want something fairly new, handles well, and makes enough power to get out of its own way (but barely). With bolt-ons and a tune I'd say it's about as fast as a stock E36 M3 in a straight line, give or take.


    For the cost of a Spec E46, I'd get something like a C6 Corvette and be much faster. That's the usual car you're going to see at a TX DE weekend, so you'd fit right in, and have enough straightline speed to keep up with most stuff. Don't underestimate how much it can suck to share the track with a bunch of cars with WAY more power than you. I had a bone stock RSX Type S (on bleh tires), and took it out a few times when my track car was down, and just had to stop as the speed difference was creating some borderline dangerous situations. It shouldn't matter in a DE, but we're not talking the cream of the crop on driving skills here...

    The average TX DE car in the advanced groups makes 400+ rwhp and is shod with R comps. In fact, Hoosiers seem to be becoming more and more common over time in the paddock in the quest to win the DE Speed Trophy. Taking a 110 rwhp Miata out there is going to feel a little sketchy when you're hitting 110 mph on the straight and getting ready to enter a corner while a modded C7 Z06 is doing 175-180 mph.

  6. #31
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    I don't think you necessarily are, but I would never recommend R-comps or Hoosiers for novice or intermediate drivers. And bluntly, most advanced drivers than run Hoosier's don't use them.

    The Corvette's are a performance bargain for sure, but it's rare to see one driven 'right', and that's because they can make up mistakes with HP.

    There are SO many cars available today with 350HP+ and nanny's, and it's sad that most of their drivers never have to learn to drive.

    It's a tough choice; a ~20 y/o low HP car without computer help (that will force you to learn all the wonderful nuances of driving), or a 5 y/o modern platform to chase numbers.

  7. #32
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    Great advice. If you go with an E36, be prepared to change things like the clutch master cylinder and all the engine and cooling system maintenance items. Obviously suspension maintenance will likely need to be addressed. All not cheap, especially for a low-hp car.

    Quote Originally Posted by Def View Post
    The average TX DE car in the advanced groups makes 400+ rwhp and is shod with R comps. In fact, Hoosiers seem to be becoming more and more common over time in the paddock in the quest to win the DE Speed Trophy. Taking a 110 rwhp Miata out there is going to feel a little sketchy when you're hitting 110 mph on the straight and getting ready to enter a corner while a modded C7 Z06 is doing 175-180 mph.
    I thought about this earlier this year. I just got back into doing DEs. A lot of fast cars out there! Mustangs and Corvettes in every run group!

    My vote would be for a 986 Porsche Boxster S as the best bang for buck. 996 911's values are on the way up again. Might still be able to get a decent deal. They are expensive to maintain but most of them have been taken care of.

    For these cars, look for cars that have been driven regularly, had the clutch, rear main seal, IMS bearing, and air oil separator replaced. That will put the car in good shape. That's the bulk of the maintenance. Just be mindful that most people only talk about the IMS bearings as the only issue with these cars. Not true at all. The engines have many methods of failure. The 986 and 996's both share the same engines. Cracked cylinder sleeves, cracked heads, worn cylinder walls, timing chain issues are just some of the failures.

    986 Boxster S's are pretty cheap though so even if the engine blows, it's not too big of a loss. Many people look for rolling shells so you can recoup some of your money.

  8. #33
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    To pretty much sum it up... Every single track car has it flaws that need to be fixed. Pick the car that YOU enjoy driving the most, throw money at the weak areas and have a blast!

  9. #34
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    I would add that having access to an array of events that allow for seat time has really helped me as I spend more of my time and energy getting to track events. Having a race car, maintaining a race car, driving a race car and racing a race car fall into different buckets.

    In my case I am the current care taker of a 1987 BMW 325, built NASA GT2 car that last teched in 2010. The current motor is a '91 Non Vanos M50 and I have two chipped DME units, I am currently running the 180 hp format. The car weights 2340, no attempt has been made to lower that number, yet. The car was built to run TOYO RA1's, 225/45/15's, the front fenders are pulled and the rears are not cut, the inner lip is folded up. Think of it as a time warp, or vintage race car.
    Having access to our local auto crosses to spend some time in the seat was only available after refreshing a number of systems. Starting at the rear: new half shafts (the passenger side had some slop) , new subframe bushings ( the old ones had crystalized and were slufing off leaving traces of bushing on my trailer), changed the 4.10 LDS to a much fresher 3.73 LSD ( keeping and refreshing the 4.10 for later ) and next on the list is getting the drive shaft rebuilt.
    Starting at the front, some one had used the radiator core support as a jacking point. So as this is a "race car" the lower bent to pretzel sheetmetal frame was cut out and a box section was welded in its place. To that was welded the front mount for the "Red 46 sump guard". That was installed to protect the low hanging E34 front sump required to be installed on the M50 motor in my car. Not so funny thing about this combination, this oil pan is not a jacking point. There are early and late pans. The oil pans gasket on these motors are a ware item and all leak. Getting the pan off the motor, when installed in the car and bolted to the transmission will require drilling two holes into the lower bell housing to get to the back two bolts of the oil pan. Those two holes will have to be opened up when you realize that the motor/pan combination is mounted at an angle. But you will be able to confirm that your oil pump nut is already safety wired in place, or not.
    As I will be running events in Souther California I installed a fan on the motor and was able to use the stock wiring to reinstall a real BMW thermostat switch.

    The one change to the cage that was made involved moving the lower front cross bar, farther up and under the dash. Now I no longer have to think about my knee caps hitting any thing. As an additional positive, we were able to lower the steering wheel almost two inches. Given that the seat is mounted to the floor I am really looking way out in front of the car and I do not have to add a longer shifter.
    And yes, the car has all new fluids, brakes and an exhaust system that will pass the sound checks any where I care to run. That only required getting my hands on a really nice high flow cat that the state of CA may not like. To date the work done by "Scotty's Muffler" in San Bernardino is art. They were able to tuck it under, make it removable and work with what I needed to make a race car system for my car.
    The time you spend running the auto cross events, you might be finishing off the old tires that you have saved from your E Street Miata. When a Bridgestone RE71 205/50 15 is run on six inch wide rims they burn the edged of the tire to the core, leaving lots of meat to melt on 7inch rims that are running with 2.5 degrees of static race car camber of your race car. It all works.

    But again, before you hit the track spend the time to really clean out the inside of you race car. Find that younger and more flexible person that can crawl into the back of your caged car to wipe up the dust of the ages that will find you when you are now shifting into 4th for the first time at that event you have finally allowed your self to run in. Oh, if you have not at this point lost the 20 lbs you were going to shed before you spent the money for a real race suit, get over it. You are going to always to look like the real F1 drivers from the 50's! This time in a full face helmet with a Hans device.

    This is where I'm at and I still only really want to drive my race car, on the track. Race it, not sure.

    David
    Last edited by jr02518; 09-15-2018 at 11:39 PM.

  10. #35
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    Great advice & perspective so far on this thread. Corvette an interesting option.

    My $0.02 is E46 330. I have one. Here's why I went with a 330. I hope you find this useful.

    1) Race class is on the rise. This means many people before you have paved the way on how to mod and how to setup. There is no real guesswork on getting the car to be fast. Just ask the 3,000 members on the SE46 FB page or similar group. Set the car up per the consensus and it will be fast and balanced on the first day, for the most part.
    2) Cost. It's relatively cheap to get a good car and to mod. Heck, even if you need a significant part one day, it's cheap. e.g. engine $750, tranny $250, (the diff will cost ya though)
    3) Fun. It's so well balanced you can pretty safely push it and enjoy a hot lap without worry of massive oversteer.
    4) Rewarding. It's not that fast on it's own - ya gotta drive it well. So, when you put together that perfect lap, I find it very rewarding.
    5) You can fit stuff in it. I put 4 wheels in the back seat (w/ the seat out). My stuff in the trunk. Can't do this with a 911 or a Miata.
    6) Easy to work on.
    7) Lots of them out there. You can find a car and parts readily available most all the time.
    8) Resale. Because of the SE46 class, if you build your 330 toward that spec, it's worth something and worth more and more as you go.
    9) It's a lot newer than other BMWs you may consider (E30/E36)

    Again, my $0.02.

    BryDog

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