Okay so after falling in love with my Dad's 2003 525i Sport, I got a 2003 530i Sport that was very much so unloved by the PO. It's been a great car so far (had it for around a month and a half maybe). Although recently I've noticed that the car takes a bit to start but I don't know why / if it's the starter or something bigger (hopefully smaller). The problem doesn't seem to be related to cold or hot start.
When I put the key in, I hold it forward and it's like I have to hold it for a little longer than usual compared to my Dad's car. Sometimes I've actually stopped trying to start the car and almost like a quarter or half second later it will whir to life. Sometimes it seems like if I push the car as far forward as possible and not the bare minimum to engage the starter it will change, but I'm not positive if it's just my imagination. I really gotta get this fixed because it's constantly giving me heart attacks cause I think my car won't start for whatever reason...
For comparison on my Dad's car, I can hold the key for like maybe 2 seconds just enough to engage the starter and then it will start up no problem, but mine is the opposite and takes extra work to start. Sometimes 2 'attempts' if you will.
Could it possibly be the EWS / key ignition cylinder thing? Is it the starter?
I don't have any codes from my standard OBD2 reader and no BMW specific codes from BMW scanner either.
EDIT: forgot to add, as I said earlier the PO did not take good care of the car and it was sitting for sometime, although the PO didn't have an exact time frame. It was long enough that the car's oil & filter was so bad the oil pressure light would come on... Still does with the A/C off and idling w/ low revs but only flickers for milliseconds, so I'm not extremely worried about oil pressure atm.
Last edited by 1823alex; 07-21-2018 at 01:47 AM.
Have you performed ANY maintenance on the vehicle since you've owned it?
I'm sure you've changed the oil and filter-correct?
Consume the remainder of that fuel in the tank until almost empty,
then fill with at least a half-tank of fresh fuel,
along with a bottle of Techron or Lucas Fuel system cleaner.
Vehicles that have been neglected, and sat for sometime,
usually improve with a fresh set of plugs.(NGK 3199)
Last edited by MIKYZZ4; 07-21-2018 at 07:36 AM.
Whats unclear to me is... When you are holding the key... is it cranking and not starting?
Or are you saying you have to hold the key a little bit before it even starts to crank?
If the latter - bad ignition switches are a known thing for aging E39's.
If the former, well, yeah... lotsa stuff starting w/ all stuff Miky says... plugs, fuel pressure, dirty injectors.
Is there any difference BTW between 'cold starts' and 'hot starts' ?
Re: the oil... well... the M54 in that car is notorious for sticky ring problems if not extremely well cared for (and sometimes even when they are...)
Given your report on the cars history and behavior I might run an oil-flush regime to de-varnish the guts as much as possible. Just for example, what worked great for my M62 was...
- Add MMO to old oil, run for very short period (just to help really rinse the old stuff out)
- Run low visco Pennzoil conventional 5W20 (PZ conventional famous for high detergent/additive content), drive gently for week or two
- Use LubriMoly Motor Flush per instructions, then drain and refill with syn oil of choice.
Actually I think I had an extra oil change in there too someplace. Instead of MMO you could use any of the snakeoil cleaner additives, or, you could try a double-LM motor flush - before and after running the PZ, although the LM stuff isn't cheap.
2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)
Former:
1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)
Yes, oil and filter we're changed a day or two after I got the car.
I've already been through multiple tanks of fuel, mostly premium, but occasionally I do standard. I ran MMO through the gas, Gumout fuel system cleaner, but haven't used any Lucas yet? Should I try it? Right now the tank is just regular fuel.
Already replaced the ignition coils and spark plugs with NGK 3199.
Do you think the car would benefit from a new fuel filter?
http://motorlogbook.com/Alexw919/Schwartz
Yes, while holding the key it cranks immediately, but does not start right away like it should and takes a little bit more time than expected.
Not sure yet, I'll have to pay attention next time I go and run errands or something.
Re: oil, I've already changed it, so next oil change, I'll do the 5W20 and add MMO to it, then do another premature oil change after that.
FWIW, I put the MMO in the old outgoing oil before I throw in the new PZ. Honestly I think its the by far least important step but probably as I said - makes that old oil a little thinner just before you toss it. Not that my procedure is secret sauce or anything, I'm sure there's multiple ways to skin the cat (tho the PZ and LM stuff is a proven combo in my book).
So if its cranking but not catching, could be fuel pressure, maybe fuel pump is going, maybe FP checkvalve is bad (letting the rail drail back to the tank over time...) No codes is good. Means you prob don't have any major vac leaks or anything and shouldn't be any major component failures. If you can check fuel trims though and see if those are notably high at all that might be good.
Any notable smoke, or oil consumption? Trying to guess whether your rings are sealing well or not (that's this M54 problem...)
2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)
Former:
1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)
I've got an Inpa cable and a BMW scanner 1.4.0 cable, which one should I use and what program to check fuel trims?
I think you're right about it being a fuel pressure problem but, is it the fuel pump or maybe even the filter? I doubt the fuel filter has ever been replaced so I might just replace it first then if I still have a problem move on to the fuel pump possibly?
I did have some lean codes when I first got the car, but traced those to a disconnected vacuum line I found near the oil filter housing. No smoke that I've noticed at all yet and there wasn't even any smoke when I first got the car and had low oil pressure. No oil consumption at all either, I did the oil filter housing gasket already, and the PO's mechanic friend did the valve cover gasket so there's no major leaks and the pan gasket isn't leaking yet. Overall the engine is in pretty okay shape I think considering it's condition and the neglect it faced.
Reading through that log, wow!
You have already done quite a bit of maintenance, excellent!
No, nothing points to them, they're fine.Could it possibly be the EWS / key ignition cylinder thing? Is it the starter?
It couldn't hurt, and may improve startup.Do you think the car would benefit from a new fuel filter?
Haha yes, trying to make up for the neglect of the PO. There were some very major suspension issues too, a week or two after I got it, my Dad and I realized one of the front lower control arms was pretty loose, and then one of the sway bar links actually popped out, and pulled the ball from the sway bar... That was interesitng...
Good to hear that the ignition cylinder likely isn't an issue as if I need to replace it, I need to get new locks & EWS module all around the car, right?
Also, ya I might just do the fuel filter since I doubt it's been done before & it's not like it's gonna hurt the car. If the filter doesn't help then I'm guessing the fuel pump is the issue, or the FP's check valve?
Yeah agreed... its REALLY a nice change to have a 'just got a new E39' guy show up and ask for help and then turn out to have done most of the obvious stuff already before asking for a handout! Vs the "HEY YOU GUYS SUCK I POSTED A POORLY WORDED QUESTION WITH NO BACKGROUND INFORMATION AND NOBODY ANSWERED ALL MY QUESTIONS AND SOLVED MY PROBLEM WITHIN 2 HOURS!?!?!!!!" dudes with only 5 posts.
EWS is almost certainly 100% fine. Otherwise you'd have difft symptoms. If you had an intermittent on the key antenna for instance then it would act much differently, like sometimes would start perfectly immediately, other times would not crank at all, and eventually maybe you'd never get it to crank again if it lost sync with the key.
Re: Filter - yeah, those are overblown as a problem component (based on obsolete car knowledge of cars of the past, not of modern fuel filters which are essentially 'lifetime' items for the most part) and most of the suggestions to replace them are off base on these cars...
BUT... it can't hurt, and, who knows for a neglected car like this... that sat a long time... maybe indeed some varnish or something piled up in there. And, on a late M54 based car like yours, the filter should have the FPR integral, so you kinda get a "twofer" with that of the regulator and the filter at same time. KEEP TRACK OF WHICH HOSE IS WHICH from the tank (take a picture before disassemble is my best suggest). Guys swap the feed/return and that causes the car to run like shiz as you can imagine.
Yes swaybar links can bust the ball joints, don't be too alarmed by that. In the rear, those are oddly one part that I like the cheapest aftermarket parts for vs OEM because they are really old school mild steel metal vs cast alum dogbones, which I have had break a couple times.
Oh and use INPA - go into Read Status - Analog and you should be able to read trim values.
2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)
Former:
1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)
Haha, thanks and yeah I figured I should do the regular stuff first that should hopefully mitigate most of the common problems.
Glad to hear that you think the EWS is fine, as I'm sure that's a costly fix if that goes bad...
So you think it's not really worth replacing the fuel filter or maybe just try it anyways? When you say the FPR is inside the fuel filter, is there still one on the fuel pump or did they move it to the filter then? Also is the filter a different part # for later E39s?
I'll give INPA a try in a little bit then, thanks for the help btw!
Waaaaaiaiiiiiiiiiiiittttt a minute...
This is the same car with the completely forked up messy ugly piece of crap twist and tape remote starter hack install right?
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...Steering-Wheel
Why aren't we thinking the problem is that the Viper piece of rancid dog poop hacker install may be introducing a delay between turning the ignition switch and the actual car trying to start? Because that's what I am strongly thinking. VERY strongly. I am gonna guess the Viper gets the ignition switch signal, then it starts its 'virtual' starter sequence with the EWS and the DME.... needs to activate some relays and whatnot, and that's got some kind of delay... might even be causing some EWS rolling-code thing where the code gets slightly out of sync so it needs to roll forward for a few seconds to find the right one...
Rip that sh1t out man. I wouldn't bother any other diagnosis until it was outa there.
- - - Updated - - -
Search and learn. The FPR is ON the end of the fuel filter. Before that it was a '3/2 valve' next to it (M52TU's and M62) and before that it was up on the fuel rail. It was an emissions thing, moving hot fuel to the engine bay and back makes more vapor so you keep the fuel cooler by putting the pressure return under the drivers ass instead.
2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)
Former:
1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)
Hahah nope, that'd be my Dad's 525i, I've got a different car, same year and mostly same options but 530i. This car with the starting issue is not the one with the hack job remote starter.
Funnily enough the car with the rancid dog poop viper system starts up better & quicker than my car lol.
Sorry for the confusion btw.
Gotcha. False alarm! Nothing to see here!
2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)
Former:
1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)
I am chasing down a similar issue on my E46 - same engine. It just take a few more seconds of cranking to fire than it should.
I bought a harbor freight fuel pressure gauge. you need to wrap all fitting with white teflon tape to get it to work properly.
After a drive, hook up your pressure tester and see how quickly you lose pressure. I lose all my pressure in about 40 mins.
I first installed a new check value near the where the fuel pump - no change. See video below.
I now think I might have a leaky fuel injector, which is a common occurrence. I won't know until I remove fuel rail with injectors attached and pressurize the system.
https://youtu.be/6ezt4M1NZDk
As GG said, it's prolly the fuel filter. Did them at the dealer a lot, it could be excessively clogged or the fuel pump is getting weak. The built in FPRs on the filters in the E46s and later X5s would get weak and bleed off pressure. I'm assuming by the fact you have a 530, you'd have a newer style filter with the fpr on it rather than my 528 style with one in/one out and the FPR on the end of the fuel rail.
Hmm, I may try and get a small bit of fuel pressure hose & that check valve linked in his description and just try it, but I tried to do the thing where you put the key from position 0 -> 2 a few times to force the fuel pump to run and build pressure and it didn't help when I had cold started it this morning.
I think I'll replace the filter cause it's not gonna hurt the car and it can realistically only benefit from it, just sucks that they're like $40-70 for our cars I think? If the FP was getting weak, wouldn't I have issues revving near redline & going at fast highway speeds? (I've had 0 trouble getting up to 80-95 mph, if that helps indicate anything?
Also! Unfortunately (or fortunately?) it does seem to be related to whether it is a cold or hot start. If the engine is mostly warmed up already it won't take as long, but if it is dead cold (sits outside overnight ~50-70 degrees) and it will take so long to start I really get freaked and think "This is the time it's not gonna start...." and then it'll start up, sometimes it literally just feels like if I stop trying to start it, it'll start instantly, right after disengaging the starter motor (pos 3 or 4 of key).
Like sometimes it will start right after I decide to pull the key back to pos 3 (1 past accessory power, engine runs if it was started). When it does this the revs will sometimes climb up pretty high, like 1200rpms or so.
Before you even attempt a cold start in the morning:
1.Remove plugs 1 at a time, smell each cylinder for strong odor of fuel.
2.Leave plugs out to allow cylinders along with plugs to air dry for several minutes.
3.Install plugs into cylinders.
4.Attempt normal morning cold start.
Any change? Describe anything you found out of the ordinary.
I must ask, is engine displaying any kind of misfires upon first start-up?
Interesting, I'll give this a try tomorrow morning probably. Can I ask what a strong / lack of strong fuel smell would indicate and what I'd be looking for specifically? Are you thinking that I have stuck / leaky injectors maybe and there's lots of extra fuel sitting in the cylinders?
Exactly!
Update: I think I've made a connection on what the issue might be but, I'm not totally positive so please give me your opinions.
I've been ignoring and just clearing a PASoft error for "Voltage Supply Terminal 15, Faulty" on my IKE. Mainly just because I didn't notice any problems so figured it would be fine (stupid I know) I decided to finally give it a google and what not and noticed people are attributing a failing ignition switch to this error & the symptoms might be the problem with starting the car and it feeling like it just cranks too long.
However when googling signs of a failing ignition switch I'm mostly seeing people having a TON of electronics issues. I don't have any electrical problems with my car though (no window issues, sunroof works, all the lights light up bright & the back lighting @ max brightness doesn't flicker & the original radio works fine and hasn't had any hiccups). This is what's making me curious if it REALLY is an ignition switch problem or a possible wiring issue? Even still shouldn't this error be causing me random electrical gremlins?
As far as I know my ignition switch is likely from the factory & the battery was probably replaced since the factory but is at the very least 1-3 years old...
Also ONE symptom that I DO have of a failing ignition switch is apparently an intermittent SRS ' Airbag light in the cluster? It will go off if the passenger gives the side door airbag a few taps though so I don't know if that's really related... How do I go about fixing that though? The error for it is something like resistant too high front right airbag.
- - - Updated - - -
Sorry for the super late reply, I did end up replacing the fuel filter anyways and it didn't help & putting the key forward a few times priming the fuel pump & giving it lots of pressure did not help either. So either the ignition switch issue or the leaky injector test I still have to perform...
2003 530i M Sport [Black Sapphire Metallic & Sand Interior]
IMG_1075 by Alex Wilson Photography, on Flickr
Yeah I'm guessing you're right about the passenger side gasbag having door connection issue. But you could have ignition problem... its not guaranteed that you get the weirdo symptoms every time, its just common to. Might try a new one. Its not a terrible parts-cannon investment since those are well known to poop out - if yours is orig you'll prob need one sooner or later.
2003 M3CicM6 TiAg
2002 540iT Sport Vortech S/C 6MT LSD TiAg
2008 Audi A3 2.0T DSG (the daily beater)
2014 BMW X1 xDrive28i (wifemobile)
Former:
1985 MB Euro graymarket 300SL
1995.5 Audi S6 Avant (utility/winter billetturbobattlewagen)
I might just throw a new one in, it's like $30-60 I think and like you said, I'm sure it will go out eventually & the error doesn't keep coming back but it will come and go every now and then. Like it'll be gone for weeks after clearing it and just come back randomly so...
2003 530i M Sport [Black Sapphire Metallic & Sand Interior]
IMG_1075 by Alex Wilson Photography, on Flickr
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