Hey guys, I did my first Hyperdrive event at Limerock in CT last friday with Jay from trackcars4rent (with one of his cars) and now I'm looking for advice on how to get my car out on the track. I have an e36 turbo, approx. 600WHP ( I know it's probably way too much for the track haha) but I had a good time and would like to do it again. I'm looking for advice as far as are NASA HPDE events really the only way to get out there (I'm not against them I'm just actually asking is that the easiest and or only way to get out there?). Do clubs ever rent out the whole track that would allow me on if someone goes out with me? Right now the car has a 4 point bolt in roll bar, and stock seats/seat belts. Are racing seats and 5pt harness a must? I know I should get them anyways just not sure if I need them before I can get out on the track. Also not sure when I need a full weld in cage. At the very least I want to do a Hyperdrive event with my own car but I would love to be able to get a couple sessions in. After one 20 min session you realize there were a hundred things you should have done differently out on the track haha. I know there are certain things I need to do to my car maintenance wise to get it ready but I'm not worried about that aspect of it right now, I will take care of them when I decide this is something I can actually do time and money wise. Any advice is appreciated!
Thanks,
Greg
ICS Stage 1 NickG tune, 60lb Injectors, Blow through MAF, Synapse BOV, Boostlogic Manifold, BW-S366, Full 4" exhaust, Built Block w/ Wiseco's and K1 Rods = Good Times
There are quite a few organizations that run HPDE events around New England, not just NASA. In addition there is BMWCCA, Chin, Apex, COM and many many more. For the most part, having a stock interior car will be fine for nearly all DE organizations. After all, you're there for learning, not racing. So no, you do not need racing seats and harnesses (and a cage).
Having a 4 point roll bar is nice, because you can easily install racing seats and harnesses if you want to improve the safety of your car and how well you're strapped in. Most clubs, if you do decide to get seats and harnesses, require that the driver and passenger have "equal restraints". So if you install a racing seat on the driver's side, the passenger side must also have a racing seat in that position as well.
In terms of maintenance, you'll definitely want racing brake fluid and pads. If you do not get good pads and fluid you will overheat E36 M3 brakes and the pedal will get spongy which is not confidence inspiring. It'd be best to have predictable braking so you can set your marks and adjust them in small increments when necessary.
Hey Fred, thanks for the info. I will have to look into some of those other groups and see what they offer. I know groups like NASA go all over the place and I think their next stop is Watkins Glenn and while I would love to go there I don't know about trailering my car 5 hours just to go. I'm very close to Palmer but haven't heard the best things about the track itself. (Not that I am picky just saying). I also do have I believe the type 200 brake fluid and I believe Hawk blue series pads (it was a long time ago when I got those) and stainless brake lines. If I decide to go I will be doing a full antifreeze flush, probably new brake fluid, caliper pin greasing etc. I also need to look into making sure I have good shrouding for my radiator/intercooler (its been kind of hacked up over the last decade) as well as possibly an oil cooler. Oh and my brake ducting was removed for the intercooler piping to fit so I may remove the fog lights and run new ducts to the brake again. I used to have my strut hats swapped for the extra degree of camber and then swapped them back because I was just ruining my tires on the street, so I would probably swap them back AGAIN. I don't really want to spend $250-300 my first day and on my first session find out something isn't going to hold up. That would suck haha.
Last edited by e36ALPINE; 07-18-2018 at 11:53 AM.
ICS Stage 1 NickG tune, 60lb Injectors, Blow through MAF, Synapse BOV, Boostlogic Manifold, BW-S366, Full 4" exhaust, Built Block w/ Wiseco's and K1 Rods = Good Times
BMWCCA beginner school and then BMWCCA track days. I think you get the school for $100 and your first track day for $100. I did it years ago but have not done any since. Must join BMWCCA.
I quickly went on their site. The only driving session I see within 100 miles of me for the rest of the year is at Limerock park. $50 membership and $350 for the day. Includes 4 20min sessions with an instructor. Wish it was $100 haha. Pretty sure this is why I started drag racing instead (not that I do that either)
ICS Stage 1 NickG tune, 60lb Injectors, Blow through MAF, Synapse BOV, Boostlogic Manifold, BW-S366, Full 4" exhaust, Built Block w/ Wiseco's and K1 Rods = Good Times
Yeah, I would definitely flush the brakes with Type 200 again. Brake fluid generally needs to be flushed around once a year for track cars at minimum, because it absorbs water quickly, which leads to spongy brakes on track. Hawk Blues are a reasonable racing compound.
As for Palmer, it's a fun, fast, and challenging track. Flaggers are pretty good, facility is a little bare bones but it's a small private track all things considered. There are some hairy looking sections but once you get used to driving it'll be fine.
Here are a few links for you
https://www.tracknightinamerica.com/
https://www.motorsportreg.com/
https://www.clubregistration.net (you can run with NER & NCR pca if you are a bmwcca member)
600whp is definitely too much power for a beginner especially with e36 sized tires. I would suggest swapping to the softest wastegate spring you have and running the car at wastegate pressure only.
As others have said racing brake fluid ATE200 is ok Motul 600 is better and racing brake pads hawk dtc-60 or equivalent are both good ideas with how fast your car is.
Last edited by VRT; 07-19-2018 at 11:33 AM.
ICS Stage 1 NickG tune, 60lb Injectors, Blow through MAF, Synapse BOV, Boostlogic Manifold, BW-S366, Full 4" exhaust, Built Block w/ Wiseco's and K1 Rods = Good Times
The COM Sports Car Club seems pretty reasonable and their events are all local to me which is nice. Only $35 membership and events are under $300 a day so that's cool. Anyone on here have experience with this club? Also they do the TimeAttack which I think would be fun.
ICS Stage 1 NickG tune, 60lb Injectors, Blow through MAF, Synapse BOV, Boostlogic Manifold, BW-S366, Full 4" exhaust, Built Block w/ Wiseco's and K1 Rods = Good Times
Besides myself, there are a few guys on here that are COM members. Events are under $300 a day and there's a credit towards your next event within a calendar year. The format is Day 1 is a DE, and Day 2 is the time trial day, where you get two ~25 minute sessions to dial in your settings, and in the afternoon, there's a time trial. This does result in slightly less track time on the second day, but it's a competition day. If there's any time left after the time trial, there's open track.
If you are a beginner, you take instruction on the first day, and if you are cleared to drive solo, you drive alone on day 2. You have 3 full timed laps where you are sharing the track with a limited number of cars (3 or 4), staggered by enough of an interval to prevent anyone from catching another car. In order for a beginner to be cleared to drive the time trial, he or she must demonstrate situational awareness and consistency. The time trial of course is not a time to try anything new, it's to lay down the fastest laps that your skill allows you to.
There are a lot of E36 M3 guys that run with COM and they can get a LOT out of their cars even with a bone stock engine.
I started running with COM last year and their organization is great. There are several guys in that club who are really fast and drive E36s. In my experience the driving is more serious and the instruction better than with the BMWCCA. They encourage you to time yourself and compare data etc. Last time I went to a BMWCCA event I wasn't even allowed to use Harry's laptimer or even drive by myself.
The only problem you may run into with COM is they have their own classing system and associated safety rules. I would fill out the classing form they have on the site and email the organizers. Let them know what kind of power you're running and the other mods you have. For example I think they may have an issue with stock seats and a 4 point. It would suck to get there only to find out you can't run.
I highly recommend it though and like you said the pricing seems to be the best too.
Cool. Thanks guys. I will probably need a month to get everything sorted and ready to go. I will contact them and see what they say. Hopefully I will be out there this year!
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ICS Stage 1 NickG tune, 60lb Injectors, Blow through MAF, Synapse BOV, Boostlogic Manifold, BW-S366, Full 4" exhaust, Built Block w/ Wiseco's and K1 Rods = Good Times
^ This. Or go MotorsportReg.com and search for events near you with BMW in the title. I'm biased. Every organization has its niche. BMWCCA has excellent programs for beginning drivers. Read the First Timer's Guide from this page: http://www.boston-bmwcca.org/Driving...s/Default.aspx
At a Boston BMW CCA (and many other Northeast CCA chapters), a beginner will get a peer mentor to guide you through your first day, knowledgeable tech inspectors, a pre-assigned instructor who has read your logbook and goals, in-car instruction all day, 2 classroom sessions each day, and an instructor who is trained in instructing, not just driving fast. You will also have a paddock full of E36 owners with expertise, tools, and spare parts should you need them. The emphasis is on safety, fun, learning, and going fast -- in that order.
And, I agree 600hp will make your learning harder than 240 would. Two reasons. First, if you overslow for a corner, throwing away your momentum, you'll never know it because your power will make up the time on the straights. Second, you will have to be VERY, VERY careful feeding in power when the wheel is turned, even slightly, especially if you have lag. You can probably spin the tires in 3rd (I'd guess), even with the wheel straight. And your high speeds on the straights and low speeds in the turns will be hell on a pad like Hawk Blues. Expect brake fade and back off a lot if/when it happens.
Disclaimer: I do instructor development and tech for Boston.
Dan Chadwick
Boston Chapter BMW CCA Instructor Development.
Near-Orbital Space Monkeys, E30 M50-ish
Driving Evals on-line evaluations for Driving Schools. Paper forms are just wrong.
every club/group /chapter can vary. Insurance reasons, and psychological reasons prevent use of timers
with newish track drivers, timers can just impede and really fock up your head during a session. BMWCCA wants you to learn how to drive safely and quickly, yet not necessarily blaze lap times...PCA as well.
I instruct as well......
And yes BMW is a bit strict about solo driving..but they have been thinking about changing some old ways............and chapters can vary.
But comparing data?....that seems a bit unecessary when so many drivers dont even know the line!..lol
But hey, some do DE to just drive fast. As a rt seat driver, I know as you learn better technique you will get faster easily. But every1 attends for different reasons
Last edited by jrkoupe; 07-23-2018 at 05:28 PM.
1. SCCA Track Night in America. It's a brilliant program specifically designed for getting beginners in daily/street type cars on track. Its low cost, low time hit, super easy to register, easy event format. It's all the fun with amazing low hassle. I can't say enough good things about it.
2. Once you get your feet wet and decide you like it, BMWCCA does offer good beginner-intermediate level instruction and is good for building up a culture of safety. I think its worth spending some time there.
3. COMSCC is a ton of fun. It's a super good group of people and the time trial format is really fun. They have instructors and beginner groups and you'd be fine to jump right in, but they aren't as coddling and conservative as BMWCCA is. Also, once you get licensed you no longer have a dedicated in-car instructor. There are class rooms, track walk-throughs, and an Advanced Driver Coaching program that provides less frequent in-car and lead/follow coaching. There are some seriously good drivers in the club so the competition is strong. I spend all my time with COMSCC.
P.S. Since you asked, yeah lose the turbo.
Last edited by TXBDan; 07-24-2018 at 04:23 PM.
Great info. Thanks everyone for the input. I’ll turn the turbo down but I’m NOT getting rid of it LOL. Once the car is ready I will get in touch with some of you if you don’t mind and hit the track! thanks!!
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ICS Stage 1 NickG tune, 60lb Injectors, Blow through MAF, Synapse BOV, Boostlogic Manifold, BW-S366, Full 4" exhaust, Built Block w/ Wiseco's and K1 Rods = Good Times
Join PCA (you don't need to drive a Porsche). I love the way they run their events down here and they have some great instructors. It's fun to frustrate a P-car driver who just paid over $100K for his new car by passing him in a 17 year old Bimmer.
2001 Steel Gray MCoupe - 147,000 miles and owned since new. MCS 2WNR suspension, Hotchkiss swaybar, poly bushings all around, cat delete headers with custom tune, 3.73 LSD, and Clownshoe Motorsports rear subframe reinforcement.
2014 Porsche Cayman S / 2022 BMW X3M Competition / 2020 Ram Rebel
Not sure about NE region, but the DC region of SCCA has a 'work 3 get 1 free' deal. Work (as a flagger, etc) any 3 days, and get 1 day free HPDE.
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