Please help with succession planning

[ross1]

OT I know but there is a substantial knowledge base here familiar with cars newer than mine. I hope this thread will be allowed here.
The wife's elderly E39 is riding like a lumber wagon these days so is (past)due for another complete suspension refresh, needs an engine resealing and is showing some rot. It has served us very well for 240,00 miles but the writing is on the wall. Short term plan is to do the suspension so her teeth aren't shaken loose and watch the fluids while keeping an eye open for the successor. It's time for me to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century.

Mrs. Ross has been making SUV noises for some years and I suspect I'll likely concede to this. The first gen X5 while moderately appealing and more suitable to my skills and diagnostic equipment is just too old to consider. I know NOTHING about any later versions.

Suggestions please from the guys who have their hands on these new fangled cars every day. I intend to self service and understand I'll need to up my diagnostic equipment(will need advice there as well) and there will be a learning curve. I am equipped with a three digit IQ and have a good affinity for machinery so will cope.

So, we will be looking for a second hand high quality vehicle. A couple of caveats; NOT committed to BMW, but if so I strongly prefer the sixes. Also, I've twisted enough crappy fasteners off of Japanese cars to never want to own one. All else considered. Purchase price is less important than the running costs.
What say the wise folks here?

[bmwdirtracer]

Oh, I think that your post is PERFECTLY within the realm of the mechanical forum.

First, MY personal thoughts: Fix the E39 and keep it. Forever.

But, okay, that's not what you asked for.....

I'm not going to send you to Toyota, because I happen to love BMW's. However, I am going to have to acknowledge that if your primary consideration is running costs, well, crap, Toyota. I'll never own one, because they don't fit my driving expectations. But......I'm weird. Seriously, Mrs. Ross doesn't break 120 mph every day, does she?

Personally, I dislike SUV's. They just block my vision of the cars ahead, and are usually driven by morons. Kind of like minivans..... (I'd be happy if all SUV's, minivans, semis and the like were forever banished to the right lane. Okay, X5M's could be excepted)

How much do you want to spend?

E83 X3 carries simple technology, with the "modern" N52 engine. It's the last of "old school", and avoids turbos and direct injection and electronic parking brakes.

A fairly late E60 with an N52?

Or, really, you could just embrace the modern?

I'd be happy with a new M2, at least until I had to fix it. A 2016 M3 absolutely spit out my M5 at VIR. I'm quite sure a new M5 would lap me every third lap.

But that's not what you asked, is it?

If you don't want to work on it, buy her a Toyota. If you want to do the work at home, and want the ACTIVE safety of a BMW, put her in a 240i. If she wants something tall, a newer X3 . Whatever you do, stay away from Minis and VW/Audis.

[MIKYZZ4]

Maybe an E46 330i 05~06 w/M54 NA engine,
not newer but not ancient either,
and as reliable as an m54 can be, with the correct maintenance,
as it seems as a DIY'er you would be able to provide.

[02Pilot]

I certainly do not have my hands on these every day, but I just went through the same process: aged E39, want for something newer, long-term maintenance more important than purchase price. I ended up in a 128i, which is likely smaller than Mrs. Ross1 wants, but one of the major attractions was the (relative) simplicity of the N51/52 motor. Note that the E9x 3-Series cars are almost the same size as the E39 5-Series, so you might have a look at those, as well as any (shudder...) SUV variants equipped with these motors.

[Jerry Scholder]

IMO, I don't know anything about the new cars, but the 21st Century for cars is overrated when you look at a classic E38 7 series. I was going through the same agonizing decision whether to sell the 2001 740i with 200,000 miles. It wouldn't let me do it. I started with the front end suspension to give it better sales appeal. New shocks, tie rods, center link, engine mounts; the whole deal. First test drive to a serious buyer, it was shaky and surging. Front passenger tire was bad and I changed the spark plugs. Car seemed fine, until the next buyer set up an appointment. Night before the test drive I couldn't find the car key. It showed up eventually and I took it out for a drive. A code came up and it started surging again. It was the dreaded timing chain guide problem. After researching the DIY repair videos, I felt I could bring this gal back to life. After almost $1,000 into it already and the timing chain guide project I was committed to keeping a great car and knowing, (with bimmerforum members help) I could have a great car I was comfortable working on and not take a beating when selling it. If you enjoy the E39 keep it around and invest a lot less in repairs than trading up. JMO.

[MauiM3Mania]

I have my hands on these things every day but not as a tech, it's when I'm driving one of the four BMWs. Hopefully, my words are welcomed in this discussion as well.

Being that the one that would be the primary driver is thinking SUV, why not an SUV? The E53 is old now, but surely there are 'low mileage' examples out there. The E53 X5 is an all wheel drive vehicle with much in common with the 5-Series of that era. From what I understand, things got complicated in the next generation. There's another listed in my neighbohood, a 2003 3.0 w/114k miles, asking $4k. Sounds like a bargain if it's in excellent condition as stated.

Some of my knowledge of the X5 is from Chris. The rest is from 2.5 months of research/ownership/driving daily a 2001 X5 3.0 that has been driven. Looking beyond it's issues from age and sitting out in the Hawaii sun for 17 years, I like it for what it is. A BMW, comfortable and serves as a utility vehicle for me. 8' lumber doesn't fit in any of my M3s!

I got behind the wheel and it had a familiar feel as the other BMWs in my life. Until I took the first turn... it's not a great performer in that respect, but your wife likely won't be taking it to the track often.

Thats my suggestion based on your loose guidelines.

[bmwdirtracer]

I agree that the E53 is an excellent vehicle, for an SUV. The E83 X3 is also similarly straightforward.

As for cornering....perhaps MauiM3Mania will remember when Nick Schmitt brought his Dinan 4.6 E53 X5 to the autox track at the end of the dragstrip, and I was asked to evaluate its safety.....and I beat John Rapacz's FTD, in just one lap..... Of course, that X5 had 315 rear tires, Dinan suspension and engine tweaks.

Of course, the N62 engine is not the easiest to work on, nor the most reliable. Certainly, you need to avoid anything with an N63 engine....it is a terrible P.O.S.

[ross1]

Thanks for the thoughts so far. Yes, SUV. She does so much to make me happy I need to suck it up, she'll be driving it after all.
I have been eyeing several sedans I would like, Panamera and Quatroporte. She likes the Q-port. Obviously both of these run contrary to my concerns of running costs. Price of entry is low on the Q-port. I already have some exotics so know the drill. Good news is they won't see the kind of miles the E39 has.

E53, like I said is mildly attractive but living in rusty, crusty Chicago I'll need to travel for a solid one. I've made more than one disappointing long distance journey on car hunts and would rather not repeat. Guess how much a one way ticket from San Fran to Chicago is when you walk up to the counter.
A super nice example of an old car is a tall order. Wife would be fine with an older one as long as in good nick.
If any pristine 6 cyl E53s are around I might be persuaded.

[bmwdirtracer]

Aw, now, see, you didn't give us a hint that you were in Maserati / Panamera territory.

The Maser is a very bad choice. We have two customers with these; one ripped out the subframe and one ripped out the oil pan, after hitting potholes. One traded for a new Jaguar, one has an order in for a new 850i. Obviously, they're both masochists.

Neither Panamera nor Quattroporte fits your home-repair desire. And, well, we were dealing with the lady's SUV desire, too.

If you're prepared to spend Porsche/Maserati kind of money, but you really want to take care of things yourself, buy pristine examples of something really fine, and slightly older. You should maybe jump up to an E70, for her. Obviously, you're not too concerned about complexity.

And hell, if YOU are looking for a four door sedan that's delightful, and possible to work on yourself, buy a pristine E60 M5.

[328 Power 04]

Panameras have proven to be quite acceptable in terms of reliability. Quattroportes not so much.

[shadowpuck]

X5M - life is short.....

[ross1]

I have my hands on these things every day but not as a tech, it's when I'm driving one of the four BMWs. Hopefully, my words are welcomed in this discussion as well.

Being that the one that would be the primary driver is thinking SUV, why not an SUV? The E53 is old now, but surely there are 'low mileage' examples out there. The E53 X5 is an all wheel drive vehicle with much in common with the 5-Series of that era. From what I understand, things got complicated in the next generation. There's another listed in my neighbohood, a 2003 3.0 w/114k miles, asking $4k. Sounds like a bargain if it's in excellent condition as stated.

Some of my knowledge of the X5 is from Chris. The rest is from 2.5 months of research/ownership/driving daily a 2001 X5 3.0 that has been driven. Looking beyond it's issues from age and sitting out in the Hawaii sun for 17 years, I like it for what it is. A BMW, comfortable and serves as a utility vehicle for me. 8' lumber doesn't fit in any of my M3s!

I got behind the wheel and it had a familiar feel as the other BMWs in my life. Until I took the first turn... it's not a great performer in that respect, but your wife likely won't be taking it to the track often.

Thats my suggestion based on your loose guidelines.

A 3.0 X5 would be an ideal compromise for me. If I were to find a pristine one and park it in her spot she'd be fine with it. Left to her own devices she'll be in a LEXUS showroom.
I suspect I won't find a unicorn and will be looking at newer stuff. The exotics are MY taste, again she'd probably be okay with one of them if gifted but I know she would rather have a high perch.
So, all the Japs are out, Range Rovers, while I'm a sucker for "lumber and hides" I know I'd quickly regret in a big way. Domestics? Maybe GM or Ford, no Chryzlers! I see lots of MB MLxxs on the cheap, I suspect for good reason.
Are there manual E53s?

- - - Updated - - -

Panameras have proven to be quite acceptable in terms of reliability. Quattroportes not so much.

Yeah, I know but they are pretty and make all the right noises.
Of the very few brand new cars I've bought one was a BiTurbo so you are preaching to the choir.

[shadowpuck]

yup, you can get an e53 with manual.....04 and later had 6 speeds available. you could get either 5 or 6 speed with the m54 engine i'm pretty sure...

[ross1]

Aw, now, see, you didn't give us a hint that you were in Maserati / Panamera territory.

The Maser is a very bad choice. We have two customers with these; one ripped out the subframe and one ripped out the oil pan, after hitting potholes. One traded for a new Jaguar, one has an order in for a new 850i. Obviously, they're both masochists.

Neither Panamera nor Quattroporte fits your home-repair desire. And, well, we were dealing with the lady's SUV desire, too.

If you're prepared to spend Porsche/Maserati kind of money, but you really want to take care of things yourself, buy pristine examples of something really fine, and slightly older. You should maybe jump up to an E70, for her. Obviously, you're not too concerned about complexity.

And hell, if YOU are looking for a four door sedan that's delightful, and possible to work on yourself, buy a pristine E60 M5.

Can't blame the car for that. THAT guy should have the SUV

[shadowpuck]

while we're here - can i ask if anyone has thoughts on e53 generation X5 and AWD now that these vehicles are older? any real issues with the gear associated with AWD? i've never owned an AWD BMW, and only ever wrenched on one or two.....

[ross1]

yup, you can get an e53 with manual.....04 and later had 6 speeds available. you could get either 5 or 6 speed with the m54 engine i'm pretty sure...

I'd need to present this one carefully. She can drive it but I know would prefer an autobox so both hands could be free for cell phone, make-up etc.

[shadowpuck]

I'd need to present this one carefully. She can drive it but I know would prefer an autobox so both hands could be free for cell phone, make-up etc.

understood, ross! they are out there - an m54 with a 5 or 6 speed would basically be an e46 in terms of work/maintenance, etc....
same could be said for an m54 with an autobox in an x5. very similar to e39/e46 based on what i've read, etc....
i'll follow this closely as i've nosed around the idea of an e53 a few times myself....

[MIKYZZ4]

Now you guys have me thinking...I could use a winter vehicle...

[bmwdirtracer]

Can't blame the car for that. THAT guy should have the SUV

Have you looked at the underside of this car? These two pieces are incredibly low and unprotected. As for "making the right noises", just make sure to bring a speaker with you, so you can listen to pre-recorded engine sounds while the car's on a flatbed. It's seriously a turd.

Note that I have not said a bad word about the Porsche, except that it's not a D.I.Y. kind of car. Of course, neither is the lovely X5M. The E60 M5 is not bad though.....

[328 Power 04]

Yeah, I know but they are pretty and make all the right noises.
Of the very few brand new cars I've bought one was a BiTurbo so you are preaching to the choir.

Hahaha, you know it. I rented one (Quattroporte) for 2 days for my wedding back in 2010... the one with the high revving Ferrari V8. I left the longest black 11's in my life with that car. Not the fastest of the bunch, because its so heavy.. but no other sedan sounds like it. It even had exhaust crackle on decel.

Loved every minute of that car.

[Breeze1]

I'm definitely more of a Bmw guy than a MB one, but if you can get a pristine w126 or w140 Mercedes for her, she'll be riding in (real) luxury, comfort & elegance. The reliability and longevity of these cars are outstanding, but so were their maintenance costs back in the day. But if you get access to parts on the cheap (scrapyards, aftermarket...) and put some DIY in it, it shouldn't be terrible at all.

Bmw's I couldn't give my opinion on everything post e46/e39/e38 ish generations, because that's were my interest for them has stopped, give or take a few exceptions.

[bmwdirtracer]

Ross, I've got to say that I don't like getting involved in a car - buying deal.....however, I've got to tell you that my boss has for sale a 2008 E70 X5, N52, 80k miles, which is, as I recall from my inspection a couple of months ago, pristine.

The price on the window is about $12k. I don't know how much he'd take for it, I don't know what it's worth, but I will say that I'd be happy to do a free PPI for you, and also revisit all the notes I made on my original inspection when he bought it.

I just recall thinking that it was one of the nicest cars I've seen him buy. Certainly, I'd never have thought that if there was any rust.

[ross1]

I'm definitely more of a Bmw guy than a MB one, but if you can get a pristine w126 or w140 Mercedes for her, she'll be riding in (real) luxury, comfort & elegance. The reliability and longevity of these cars are outstanding, but so were their maintenance costs back in the day. But if you get access to parts on the cheap (scrapyards, aftermarket...) and put some DIY in it, it shouldn't be terrible at all.

Bmw's I couldn't give my opinion on everything post e46/e39/e38 ish generations, because that's were my interest for them has stopped, give or take a few exceptions.

Agreed that those are fine cars, I've had two W124s and was always impressed by them. Again, we're appealing to my tastes, a sedan, versus what she really wants.

Mrs. Ross tolerates an ENORMOUS amount of my automotive shenanigans and my S boxes cluttering the property while placing little demands for her own wheels.
DEMANDS only reliability, A/C, radio, clean and presentable. WANTS an SUV. The E39 is pushing the boundaries of the presentable(rust) part of this equation.
It's gotta be an SUV, just hoping for something I won't hate.

[ross1]

[QUOTE=bmwdirtracer;30065171]Have you looked at the underside of this car? These two pieces are incredibly low and unprotected. As for "making the right noises", just make sure to bring a speaker with you, so you can listen to pre-recorded engine sounds while the car's on a flatbed. It's seriously a turd.

QUOTE]
Aw, man, you're tough. It ain't gonna happen now anyway so a moot point.
The BiTurbo quit completely twice on me, once in a very scary neighborhood of Chicago. You think a Maserati with the hood up might get some attention on the west side? While an absolute barrel of monkeys to drive it was indeed a SBox of the first order and sold immediately after the warranty expired. I happened on it a couple of years later on a used car lot with an obvious blown head gasket and not many more miles. It took me several cars to get over Jag-oo-ars, I suspect I'll take another dose of Maserati before I fall of my perch.
E60s are butt ugly

[Breeze1]

Agreed that those are fine cars, I've had two W124s and was always impressed by them. Again, we're appealing to my tastes, a sedan, versus what she really wants.

Mrs. Ross tolerates an ENORMOUS amount of my automotive shenanigans and my S boxes cluttering the property while placing little demands for her own wheels.
DEMANDS only reliability, A/C, radio, clean and presentable. WANTS an SUV. The E39 is pushing the boundaries of the presentable(rust) part of this equation.
It's gotta be an SUV, just hoping for something I won't hate.

Alright, how about a G class, to keep the same kind of spirit but in a refreshed package? If (gas) budget and aerodynamics are no issue, that's the only SUV I can think of, because IMO an SUV must be boxy lol.
https://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehic...b=tab-exterior

Purchasing price seems to be on the expensive side though, at least for the "newer" generations : https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used...nz-G-Class-d78

Agreed with you guys about Maserati's V8: unmatched as far as sound goes, even better than Ferrari's IMO. More specifically the 2009's (for the US) Quattroporte GTS