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Thread: Constantly warping rotors 95' e36 M3 HELP!

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKYZZ4 View Post
    Replace those calipers, don't attempt to rebuild yourself,
    purchase quality rebuilds by WBR!
    Look here:https://www.carid.com/search/1995-m3...nt-Brake-Parts
    This!
    Or centric's etc from rockauto.com

    Usually, if a pad is rubbing enough to cause rotor warpage, you'll definitely know it after pulling into pits. Smoke, smell, rotor hat turns a different color, rotor surface looks different than others, etc.

    Have you measured the run-out of your 'warped' rotors. It's extremely rare to warp a rotor. Even a cheapo $30 E36 rotor.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluptgm3 View Post
    The lube goes on the pins, as the sliding should be occurring between the pin and the bushing, not the caliper and the bushing.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Do you have these in your car? I do. From the Bimmerworld website. Not saying I am correct but hope you give Jame and the boys some slack for posting this on their site. Pay attention from 2:38 out. Notice when he has the clip installed the bushing literally slide when he turns the caliper sideways. A small bit of lube should be where the pad sit on the carrier. My car is on the lift and if I stick my finger up on the bushings they will move. I think the design on these is to spread the resistance out on as many surfaces as possible since the bushing does not sit tight laterally in the caliper. Why? (rhetorical) Hope this helps.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=XFJ0Wog0Seo
    ME:"I want to make my car faster and lighter"
    THEM:" Get out and let someone else drive"

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKYZZ4 View Post
    Replace those calipers, don't attempt to rebuild yourself,
    purchase quality rebuilds by WBR!
    Look here:https://www.carid.com/search/1995-m3...nt-Brake-Parts
    I am definitely doing this thanks!

    Why do you consider the WBR better than the rest? What makes those calipers different? Every how long should I replace calipers with rebuilt ones?

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by aeronaut View Post
    This!
    Or centric's etc from rockauto.com

    Usually, if a pad is rubbing enough to cause rotor warpage, you'll definitely know it after pulling into pits. Smoke, smell, rotor hat turns a different color, rotor surface looks different than others, etc.

    Have you measured the run-out of your 'warped' rotors. It's extremely rare to warp a rotor. Even a cheapo $30 E36 rotor.

    They don't smell or smoke afterwards and the hats don't turn a different color. The rotor surface does look marred with streaks of what looks like black pad deposits. So do you think with an OEM rotor I should be fine after changing out the calipers with rebuilt ones? or do you think I should see any difference with the DBA T3 4000 series rotors? Do you think it's worth it to spend $180 a rotor (even though I found a site that sells them for $135)? Or should I go with a stoptech slotted rotor (around $95 a rotor)?

    If i'm not mistaken the run-out was .04"

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra1956 View Post
    Do you have these in your car? I do. From the Bimmerworld website. Not saying I am correct but hope you give Jame and the boys some slack for posting this on their site. Pay attention from 2:38 out. Notice when he has the clip installed the bushing literally slide when he turns the caliper sideways. A small bit of lube should be where the pad sit on the carrier. My car is on the lift and if I stick my finger up on the bushings they will move. I think the design on these is to spread the resistance out on as many surfaces as possible since the bushing does not sit tight laterally in the caliper. Why? (rhetorical) Hope this helps.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=XFJ0Wog0Seo
    Thanks when I order the rebuilt calipers if the bushings don't slide in easily i'll bore out the hole a little more to allow the bushings to slide in freely.

  6. #31
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    +1 on post 26. That is why it would be nice to see heat numbers. Or if the bedding is off a bit or something. Just throwing crap at the wall to see what stick: If the pad is wrong what is the affect on not getting the temp range correct? I don't know anything on this but it might be an issue.

    Also agree on the rebuild caliper as the money you save is usually non existent if you place any value on your time
    ME:"I want to make my car faster and lighter"
    THEM:" Get out and let someone else drive"

  7. #32
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    Agreed this is pretty weird. I've been running, bimmerworld brass guide bushings, any random/cheap rotor, and Hawk DTC60s forever and have never had pad deposit issues. (I had tons with Carbotech pads, fwiw). I have my heat shields removed, but no other ducting. I'm actually not great at caliper bushing maintenance either.. they've never given me trouble. I run fairly quick on R1-Ss, R7s, and NT01s.

    I'd recommend rebuilding the stock/OEM calipers, though. Its dead simple with just a bike pump. I've heard aftermarket calipers aren't as good somehow. Who knows, but its at least cheaper and you know you're getting quality (ATE) seals/boots.

    I'd investigate the path of overheating the brakes due to over braking or a mechanical issue. Maybe get some thermal paint for the rotors and calipers.
    COMSCC T70 E36 M3

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXBDan View Post
    Agreed this is pretty weird. I've been running, bimmerworld brass guide bushings, any random/cheap rotor, and Hawk DTC60s forever and have never had pad deposit issues. (I had tons with Carbotech pads, fwiw). I have my heat shields removed, but no other ducting. I'm actually not great at caliper bushing maintenance either.. they've never given me trouble. I run fairly quick on R1-Ss, R7s, and NT01s.

    I'd recommend rebuilding the stock/OEM calipers, though. Its dead simple with just a bike pump. I've heard aftermarket calipers aren't as good somehow. Who knows, but its at least cheaper and you know you're getting quality (ATE) seals/boots.

    I'd investigate the path of overheating the brakes due to over braking or a mechanical issue. Maybe get some thermal paint for the rotors and calipers.

    I just started a new thread to see if there is some input on rebuilt vs new calipers. I would not consider buying a rebuilt caliper if there is a concern with safety. I have talked to a few people already and some say buy new and some tell me they always just buy rebuilt ones and don't have any issues.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeeHemDoubleU View Post
    I am definitely doing this thanks!

    Why do you consider the WBR better than the rest? What makes those calipers different? Every how long should I replace calipers with rebuilt ones?
    Come highly recommended by one of the forums mastertech and racer, bmwdirtracer

    Read here:https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...1#post29508051
    "you have to Pay Large to Look Large"
    Quote - MIKYZZ4


  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by MIKYZZ4 View Post
    Replace those calipers, don't attempt to rebuild yourself..
    Why not... It's crap simple..
    Last edited by HalfFast1; 07-11-2018 at 10:15 AM.

  11. #36
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    The reasons are in the thread link above, if you read through it.
    Last edited by MIKYZZ4; 07-12-2018 at 02:22 PM.
    "you have to Pay Large to Look Large"
    Quote - MIKYZZ4


  12. #37
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    Constantly warping rotors 95' e36 M3 HELP!

    Quote Originally Posted by BeeHemDoubleU View Post
    I still lubed up both. From what I was able to find out online most people lubricate the bushing before installing it into the caliper.
    I guess this is strictly dependent on who’s solid bushing kit is purchased/installed. The longer the bushings is the greater the chance the caliper will bind on the pins (pin angular tolerance), and require them to be “fit”.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by bluptgm3; 07-11-2018 at 07:50 PM.

  13. #38
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    I know with the ECS bushing kit I have the bushings are ribbed and press-fit. They shouldn't move anywhere once installed. They are also a bit longer than the ones in that video, have a flat side on the flange end to clear the piston bore, and don't sit quite as flush (though that doesn't matter since there's always a gap between the caliper and the bracket, unless you have no pads). The length means that the pins sit entirely inside the bushings once tightened, allowing the plastic cap to fit neatly over the end.

    I only had binding issues due to human error right after installation when I was using a stubby hex bit that was too short on the front brakes and slightly bent the end of one of the guide pins causing it to bind and drag the pad. After replacing that, all my pins slide smoothly and are easy to remove and reinstall.
    Last edited by TostitoBandito; 07-11-2018 at 07:36 PM.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Daily Driver and Track Toy


  14. #39
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    You do have your rotors correctly oriented right?

    @Shut_up_racing

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pat533i View Post
    You do have your rotors correctly oriented right?

    +1. Our rotors ‘throw’ air, they do not ‘scoop’ air, pulling air from the center.


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  16. #41
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    He said he had the centrics. Think they are straight but it is still a good point as I have see guys at the track with the rotors on the wrong side.
    ME:"I want to make my car faster and lighter"
    THEM:" Get out and let someone else drive"

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeeHemDoubleU View Post
    I just started a new thread to see if there is some input on rebuilt vs new calipers. I would not consider buying a rebuilt caliper if there is a concern with safety. I have talked to a few people already and some say buy new and some tell me they always just buy rebuilt ones and don't have any issues.
    I have have issues with rebuilts on a street car so, if there is any rusting on his current pistons, I would buy new (ATE brand). With 130K miles on his, I sure they are rusty and the seals are shot. I would also install cooling duct.
    Cars: '98 M3 Coupe - Daily Driver
    '98 M3 sedan - Track car:

  18. #43
    NeilM is offline Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeeHemDoubleU View Post
    5. I have no cooling to the rotors not even the stock cooling ducts.(
    Wait, what! Why not?

    You've got to get some cooling air in there beyond what naturally drifts in around the edges.

    Neil

  19. #44
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    Well there's your problem,
    deleting the cooling that was incorporated into the design.
    "you have to Pay Large to Look Large"
    Quote - MIKYZZ4


  20. #45
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    Yeah, seriously. Granted I have two-piece front rotors, but just with the stock cooling and trimmed backing plates (no ducting) my front brakes are fine even on tracks with long straights where I'm braking from 135+. If anything, my rears can get hotter at times, though that's probably more due to me not braking as aggressively as I need to than anything.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Daily Driver and Track Toy


  21. #46
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    Several track only M3’s I race against have blocked off the stock cooling tunnels and have no other cooling ducts and have less issues with brakes. Race only pads of course.

  22. #47
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    That may be the clue here.
    He has replaced rotors multiple times&brands,
    but never once mentions switching pads.
    "you have to Pay Large to Look Large"
    Quote - MIKYZZ4


  23. #48
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    Right, AFAIK the people who block off the stock cooling ducts do it to maintain more ideal (higher) operating temperatures for whatever race pad compound they're using, so the brakes don't get too cool on straights. These guys are typically in full track/race cars which are quick enough to get enough air without any ducts/inlets, and are also usually lighter than street cars so the brakes don't have to deal with as much thermal energy.

    I don't think heat/cooling is the issue here, unless the OP can provide brake temps from the track which indicate an issue. The OP said he was using pretty aggressive Hawk DTC-70 pads which are certainly a track compound which should love high temperatures. These pad compounds should supposedly work even to the point where the rotors would be visibly glowing (1500F or so). Seems like the possibilities are:


    • Pads defective or poorly performing, leaving excess deposits, etc... (try different pads on fresh rotors)
    • Pads/rotors not bedded properly
    • Rotors defective (very unlikely)
    • Driver-induced, meaning that the way the OP uses the brakes on the track is why this is occurring
    Last edited by TostitoBandito; Yesterday at 08:11 PM.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Daily Driver and Track Toy


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