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Thread: Project E21: Engine Swap, Non BMW

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Project E21: Engine Swap, Non BMW

    Hello all,

    First off, I know that there are a lot of purists in the BMW world and I will start off by apologizing to you all because I do not plan on keeping a BMW motor in my recent purchased 1983 BMW E21 320i. With that being said, to the enthusiasts out there who have performed or know of a non BMW swap into this chassis, please bless me with your knowledge. I have tried some searches on this forum and many on google, and most threads led to posts which just talked about removing the motor from the top or bottom.. (I'll probably go bottom).

    This brings be here to see what my peers may know that I have yet to learn. One of the swaps that I am leaning towards is a Honda K20/24. Reason being: one of my buddies has swapped one into his MR2 and has a lot of experience working with them and their potential,reliability, and easy to access parts. (Once again, please do not put me on the fire for this. You have your goals and I have mine.) In terms of weight, they both weigh around 350lbs-380-lbs dressed. In terms of power, the M10 I have is ~120hp and 30 years old vs the K24 is 200hp+much newer (K24a2 is from 2002-2008). I know one of the biggest challenges for me will be having the proper mounts for the motor.. the harnesses, adapters, etc are also something to consider, but can be managed after the motor is sitting nice and snug where it needs to be.

    Thank you all for your help and positive feedback.
    Thank you,
    AK.

    IMG_4120.jpg
    Last edited by asutrave; 07-06-2018 at 03:24 PM.

  2. #2
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    Checkout kmiata.com.
    They make adaptor plates for the k series to bolt up to a ZF trans and can provide flywheel and clutch kits.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    -Tony

    1989 325is

  3. #3
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    Can you weld?

    Mounts are easy if you have a welder handy. You will need to have some fabrication skills to keep the swap relatively cheap.

    What transmission are you planning to use?


    There is also volvo 5 cylinder option if you want a turbo or volvo 16valve red block. Also sr20det were swapped as well as nissan's k24s.

    Again, a good welder,a band saw/chop saw maybe a friend with a cnc mill and pockets deep enough and even the 5.9 cummins should not be a problem.

    Whatever engine you choose i would suggest going stand alone engine management.


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  4. #4
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    @diesel1245 and @Retoropak: I planned on using either the adapter kits or just running the tranny which comes with the K24.

    @Retoropak: My buddy with the MR2 does have a welding machine and we could possibly put our engineering heads together be able to make some mounts. Only problem is that the car isnt at his place and I'm 80mi away. (I visit about every weekend) so it would take a LOT of back and forth, trial and error to do it cost effectively. Unless we are gods and are able to measure exactly what we need on the first go. If not, then I will bite a bullet and push the car to the nearest shop (around the corner luckily) to see what deal they can offer me. Less then $350 for engine and tranny mounts that work = less headache for me and money spent that will save my time.

    If I go the Honda K24 route, then I would only use the Honda K-Pro ECU manager. In terms of gauges, etc, I would love to keep it all stock if I can get the Stock ones to work with the newer tech.

    I'll be documenting as much as possible during my build.

    P.S. Thank you for the quick response.

  5. #5
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    Don't the k24s came in fwd platforms only?

    Find yourself a cheapo flux core welder from harbor freights or ebay or cragslist to tack weld things. Once tacked take it somewhere to weld it.


    Here are some pictures of the m5x mounts i welded to give you some ideas

    Test fitting and locking the position of the mount plates.






    Welded mount. Bushings are universal energy suspension i believe. Tube is 1/8" wall DOM if i remember correctly.








    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  6. #6
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    Stock K24 tranny are FWD mainly(my mistake on my earlier comment), but there are many where they have been adapted to RWD no problem!

    Quote Originally Posted by Retoropak View Post
    Don't the k24s came in fwd platforms only?

    Welded mount. Bushings are universal energy suspension i believe. Tube is 1/8" wall DOM if i remember correctly.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    You are a godsend! This kind of solution is exactly what I was looking for! I had a question regarding the pictures above. Why are there two plates welded on to the tube in the first picture, but in the next picture, the tube seems to be welded directly on to the mounting plate? Maybe i am not seeing it in the proper angle?
    I have an angle grinder for when I mess up, now I just need a cheap welder to make the mistakes hahaha
    Last edited by asutrave; 07-06-2018 at 06:21 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by asutrave View Post




    Why are there two plates welded on to the tube in the first picture, but in the next picture, the tube seems to be welded directly on to the mounting plate? Maybe i am not seeing it in the proper angle?
    I have an angle grinder for when I mess up, now I just need a cheap welder to make the mistakes hahaha
    One is driver side (the one with two plates) the other is passenger side


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  8. #8
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    Gotcha! Sorry for my ineptitude. First time diving this deep into things.

    I’ve removed a majority of the “dressing” from the motor at this point. Will be looking to dropping the M10, front end, and tranny tomorrow if I get some help! Will try and keep this discussion updated as I go!
    Thank you once again for that great idea for the motor mounts! Feel free to throw any more tips my way which may have helped you!

  9. #9
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    not sure why you would go with honda other then "my buddy swapped one into his MR2".

    an 83 M10 doesn't produce anywhere near 120 hp and aren't USDM K20/24's more like 155HP, not 200?

    for starters the engine sits straight up where bmw engines lay over on a substantial angle. this means that you might have bigger problems then fabricating engine mounts, like clearing the brake booster/steering shaft/intake manifold and the exhaust. i would suggest you first see if it will even fit.

    i'm assuming you're inexperienced at this sort of thing and therefore the introduction to mechanical fabrication will be a great life lesson, but maybe you should start with something a little simpler, a more proven and documented swap. also i don't know how much you paid for the E21, but any swap will devalue the car and a non BMW swap will leave the it more or less worthless.

    just saying...........
    Tom D

    77 e21 - m42
    88 e30m3
    04 330 dinan3
    84 r1000rt
    02 r1150rs
    all of them gray
    14 f800gsa - red headed stepchild!

  10. #10
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    K Miata is currently developing a kit for e30s to fit a k24. Ive been heavily tempted to start parts hunting but it’s all the little stuff that adds up FAST. That said they respond to little bolt ins putting them in the 300hp territory.

    Also I believe they are lighter than an m42.
    Last edited by captain awesome; 07-08-2018 at 11:47 AM.
    91 318is
    83 320is

  11. #11
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    @Tom D: Great strides were taken by men who strayed off the beaten path lol Your points all are correct and I would have done exactly what you were suggesting a few years ago. I got stupider so I'm gonna go ahead with this K-swap.

    I did not know the M10 was that weak... good thing I will be getting rid of it. As far as the Kseries power, yes it can RANGE from 155-200HP. The K24a2 would be in the 200HP area. Not to mention that the FI options with that platform are very positive. The Mounting angle for the K20/k24 is definitely different, and being able to make the custom mounts will be a great help once I get things to fit in there(which I will definitely get to fit one way or another). As far as the value of the vehicle goes, After I’m done, it will be more valuable to me unless someone offers me something I can’t refuse.. like a Klondike bar maybe. This is more of a personal goal more than anything else, and losing a few bucks is not a big deal(not rich but I do like achieving my goals). Although its a 2002, great things are still possible: http://www.speedhunters.com/2015/07/...ams-bmw-s2002/

    @Captain Awesome: Yeah, I saw those and they look soooooo tempting! Although they are a pretty penny! I wish they were more affordable. At the moment (from what I’ve been able to gather) this is the only option to use the bmw tranny: https://kmiata.com/products/k-series...e-and-flywheel
    Do you (or anyone) have any information on the T56 transmission?

    As far as an update, I’ve removed about everything from the engine bay other than the motor and brake booster(which I found out they make low profile versions of)! Next thing is to remove the motor and probably start with rust removal/prevention before moving forward.



  12. #12
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    I think what Tom D was getting at is that this is a lot to undertake for someone who this'll be their "First time diving this deep into things". And while that 02 is nice as hell, it also took them 7 years to complete... He's just playing the cautionary side of things, and his suggestion is a notable one.

    Best of luck.
    Past, Present, and Future

    1974 BMW 2002tii (RIP)
    1995 BMW 325is w/ FULL S50 swap, track prepped (SOLD)
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  13. #13
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    @okieflats: This is a RWD setup in a Miata, but as you can see, the issue with the exhaust will not be a problem.
    184409d1501207780-andy-hollis-one-lap-miata-k24-honda-power-75ea4bce-b0b6-4108-86db-31d645a48062.jpg
    Tom D brought up a good point about the brake booster being in the way. I did some research and found this. I feel like it will be very beneficial if I have any clearance issues: https://www.chasebays.com/products/c...e34-porsche-vw

  14. #14
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    Hey guys, I know it's been a while but just wanted to update you all on the status of things. I have acquired the K24a2 from a 2007 Acura TSX. The 6 speed BMW e46 Transmission from a 530i (GS6-37BZ). I also purchased the Adapter plate from KMiata for this build. They were really helpful in answering some of my questions and concerns and I'm super excited to say that I have all of the major hardware required to move forward with this project. I refurbished the front end, cleaned up valve cover, and adjusted the valves. I will upload some more pictures and updates soon.
    IMG_20181219_212545.jpg

  15. #15
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    I didn't make the connection you were the same one I was texting earlier... Didn't realize that trans was off a BMW. Great stuff man. Keep us updated. Can't wait til it's on the road.

  16. #16
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    I'm anxious to see what sort of parts and mods will be needed to make this work. Particularly the oil pan stuff as that seems to be the largest issue with these motors being so tall.
    91 318is
    83 320is

  17. #17
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    Quick update:
    Installed the Kmiata Adapter plate along with the Kmiata Custom Flywheel. After this installing the clutch and pressure plate is like installing it on any other car (Kmiata provides you with their own bolts for the pressure plate tho). I wasn't able to install the transmission by myself because it needs to be lined up perfectly and I haven't seen the gym in a while haha. Gonna wait for a friend to swing by and help me out with that. Assuming I am able to get this installed this week, I hope to have a engine hoist by next weekend so that I can start working on the mounts!

    IMG_5136.jpgIMG_5139.jpg

  18. #18
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    Have you figured out oil pan clearance yet?

  19. #19
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    This is awesome! I’m doing the same swap! My engine won’t be going in for months. I’m currently working on the suspension for my car first!

  20. #20
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    Looking forward to the next update!

  21. #21
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    It's been a while guys! Got busy with life and had to put any work I had on the Project on the back burner since my last post. I finally got around to getting the motor into the engine bay and see what all Demons I will have to be dealing with. The motor took up a lot more space than I expected, but nothing that can't be manageable. Here is a preliminary picture of the first time the K24 has sat on the subframe (realized that it looks better seated in the video than in the picture, I'll upload more later on too), I will be lining things up, taking measurements (Twice if not more), most likely making cuts and welds to the subframe(you'll hopefully see what I mean when you watch the video), and then working on the mounts. Here is the link to the youtube video: https://youtu.be/2Es95CJKkTc

    @3doghouse, I will most likely need to modify the subframe so that the oil pan will clear.

    @AndronPrime, how is your build coming along?

    Looking forward to your feedback as you may be seeing something that I may not.


    IMG_0119.jpg
    Last edited by asutrave; 07-11-2019 at 12:02 PM. Reason: Additional Comments

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by asutrave View Post
    It's been a while guys! Got busy with life and had to put any work I had on the Project on the back burner since my last post. I finally got around to getting the motor into the engine bay and see what all Demons I will have to be dealing with. The motor took up a lot more space than I expected, but nothing that can't be manageable. Here is a preliminary picture of the first time the K24 has sat on the subframe (realized that it looks better seated in the video than in the picture, I'll upload more later on too), I will be lining things up, taking measurements (Twice if not more), most likely making cuts and welds to the subframe(you'll hopefully see what I mean when you watch the video), and then working on the mounts. Here is the link to the youtube video: https://youtu.be/2Es95CJKkTc

    @3doghouse, I will most likely need to modify the subframe so that the oil pan will clear.
    Glad to hear it's coming along! Please share pics of the subframe mods when you get it figured out.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by asutrave View Post

    @AndronPrime, how is your build coming along?

    Looking forward to your feedback as you may be seeing something that I may not.
    i’ve decided to work on a custom bolt on front suspension solution instead of putting the engine in with what I have. I also took a step back because I was rushing the build and wasn’t paying attention to detail anymore. In any case, I am hoping to be done with the front subframe a few after the planning phase then I may start on mounting the engine. After I get the car running I’ll take the rear end apart (AGAIN ) and redo the rear subframe in a way that may be marketable Incase others would like to have an easier solution for a medium case diff.. trunk is modified so much I may need to get another e21 to make this happen.

    Long story short, I may not touch the engine until October!

  24. #24
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    Hey Guys, here is my current status on the project. Hope everyone is safe during this downturn and the COVID-19 outbreak.

    Currently I have completed the following:

    • 2007 Acura TSK K24A2 mounted to a e46 6speed Transmission
      • Kmiata Adapter
      • ACT HD Clutch

    • OEM K24A2 Intake Manifold with 2005 Accord Drive by cable TB
      • Will need to adjust the Pedal ratio for TB to open all the way

    • OEM K24A2 Exhaust Manifold
    • TSX and RSX-S Wiring Harness
    • TSX and RSX-S ECU (no KPRO)
    • RSX-S Charge Harness
    • Motor and transmission are mounted on the car
      • Custom Motor mounts
      • Modified oil pan to clear subframe

    • Fuel cell with inline Walbro 255
      • -6AN fittings and braided hoses
      • 100 micron filter pre fuel pump
      • 30 or 40 micron filter pre fuel regulator

    • OEM E21 Clutch Master
    • OEM E46 Clutch Slave
    • Motor is completely dressed with PS Pump(Will not be using as the E21 does not have it), alternator, starter, AC Compressor (want to use if possible), water pump, etc.
      • Not trying to make this into a speed racer, so in an attempt to save costs, I’ll more than likely leave the PS Pump mounted.


    I getting close to doing a test start on the motor (I hope). There are still a lot of things that I need to do as I know I am long from being completed.

    I have the following remaining things that I will be working on:

    • Hybrid Racing Universal Harness (purchased it but have not opened it)
    • Installing the Harness and appropriate sensors
    • Purchasing proper Engine Management Solution (KPRO) and prep
      • Since the motor is not going into a Honda Chassis, I believe a RSX-S KPRO is not needed and a standard compatible ECU with KPRO will work.

    • Radiator, Fan, and hoses (Not too sure where to start on this one, maybe what I have in mind below will work?)
      • OEM TSX Radiator and Fan (or maybe a cheaper one as long as it gets the job done?)
      • Measure and buy hoses from local shop, confirming fitment

    • -3AN Male UNF to M10x1.0 Male Bubble Fl fittings and a -3AN Female/Female hose to have the clutch master/slave connected.
    • Brake booster delete, and reconnection of the brake lines


    Some of the things which I know that I will more than likely have some trouble with is:

    • Shifter/ selector rod for transmission
      • Not to familiar with this, but is it as easy and fabricating a straight double shear rod to connect from the shifter to the transmission? Assuming that the shifter and the shifter base are securely mounted to the body?

    • Wiring the OEM E21 features to work properly
      • Lights, turn signals, radio, etc. Is it as simple as ensuring that the OEM E21 fuse box has power when the rest of the car has power?

    • Speedometer, Tachometer, temps/oil/gas, etc. Not sure what kind of solutions there are out there for that?
    • Custom Driveshaft (will be the last thing to do and I will take it into a shop to have that done)


    Any and all feedback is always appreciated!

    Mount 4.jpgMount 3.jpgMount 2.jpgMount 1.jpgOil Pan 2.JPG

  25. #25
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    Nice work! Looking forward to seeing it come together.

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