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Thread: 6 Speed Transmission Swap Options

  1. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    1999 BMW M3 Coupe
    I have a 3.46 and a 6th gear would certainly be nice to have on the street. A 6th gear would make sense from around 40-45mph on up, on flat ground at constant speeds. These speeds are obviously a bit lower even if you have a 3.64 or 3.73. For noise/rpm, 6th is about 500rpm lower than 5th at 70mph, which is a big difference in the 2500-3500rpm portion of the band. Especially with an exhaust, the car gets pretty loud as you rev past 3000. 6th gear can cruise under that.

    That said, I don't think it justifies the expense just for basically better gas mileage and a little less noise, especially for a car like mine which is already noisy/stiff and isn't driven a whole lot on the freeway. You don't buy an M3 to have a fuel efficient commuter. Also, 6th gear adds nothing from a performance/track perspective unless you have a lot more power from FI or an LS swap or whatever. Unless I fully stripped my car I don't think I'd reach the shift point into 6th which would be around 140mph, and if I did it would be so close to the braking zone to be not worth it in a non-race fun/HPDE situation.
    1999 M3/2/5 - Titanium Silver - Track/Weekend Toy


  2. #27
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    .

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    I would try the shorter ratio and go from there. I ran a 3.64 for a year while supercharged and it was my favorite diff out of 3.23, 3.38 and 3.64 that I ran while supercharged. The only thing was that 80mph on the highway got old fast at 4000 rpm with a moderately loud exhaust and left me thinking about a 6 speed conversion. If you don't drive much on the highway, this won't be as much of an issue. I put the 6 speed money towards a turbo conversion. The turbo made so much torque, I changed to a 3.15.
    My exhaust is so loud. It's currently has eBay headers 3 inch piping to a flowmaster flow through muffler and no resonators. It defiantly needs a resonator or at least a quieter muffler. I don't mind it in town, but about 70 it drowns. Building my collection to go turbo, but it still wont be much of a highway driven car.

    Did you ever run the 3.64 with the turbo? just curious on your thoughts. I drove one with a 3.46 in it and it felt "normal" but i have no frame of reference and i drove it really easy since it wasn't mine

  3. #28
    Join Date
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    08 E90M3; 99 E36M3 Turbo
    No, I changed to the 3.15 at the same time as the turbo. You definitely don’t need any more than a 3.15 or 3.23 with a turbo. And the car is so much more comfortable on the highway. You don’t need a 6 speed. A 2.93 would be fine but are hard to find in LSD. The turbo torque is incredible — full boost at 3500 rather than 7000.

  4. #29
    Join Date
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    1995 BMW M3
    yeah higher gears are better for turbos from what I here. I also have an s54 swap project that may someday get done and I think that's more of what I would want the 6 speed for with the lower gears. never know, too many projects!

    I feel like with the high gearing with a turbo would be harder to drive in town? or is that related more so on the clutch than anything else?

    Sent from my 2PYB2 using Tapatalk

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
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    Benny, for the thread on the gs6-53 swap kit links below, donít know if you searched but my username is usually spelled wrong.

    The 420 does have brass synchros.

    The gs6-53 does not bolt up.

    Listing:

    http://www.22rpd.com/item.php?item=36


    Thread:

    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...n-(S6-53)-Swap




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    1989 535i - sold
    1999 M3 Tiag/Dove - sold
    1998 M3 Turbo Arctic/black - current
    2004 Built motor TiAg/Black - Sold
    2008 E61 19T Turbo-Wagon - current
    2011 E82 135i - S85 Swap - current
    1998 M3 Cosmos S54 swapped Sedan - current

    1998 Turbo: PTE6870 | 1.15 ar | Hp Cover, Custom Divided T4 bottom-mount, 3.5" SS exhaust, Dual Turbosmart Compgates, Turbosmart Raceport BOV, 3.5" Treadstone Intercooler, 3.5" Vibrant resonator and muffler, Arp 2k Headstuds | Arp 2k Main studs | 87mm Je pistons | Eagle rods | 9.2:1 static compression, Ces 87mm cutring, Custom solid rear subframe bushings, Akg 85d diff bushings, 4 clutch 3.15 diff, , Poly engine mounts, UUC trans mounts W/ enforcers, 22RPD OBD2 Stock ECU id1700 E85 tune, 22RPD Big power Transmission swap w/ GS6-53

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by vollosso View Post
    Benny, for the thread on the gs6-53 swap kit links below, donít know if you searched but my username is usually spelled wrong.

    The 420 does have brass synchros.

    The gs6-53 does not bolt up.

    Listing:

    http://www.22rpd.com/item.php?item=36


    Thread:

    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...n-(S6-53)-Swap




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    very nice! I just saw over the weekend the kit on your website. seems very reasonable! I wonder how I never ran across that thread before. I'll have to read through it

    Sent from my 2PYB2 using Tapatalk

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
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    08 E90M3; 99 E36M3 Turbo
    My car drives better with the low compression motor and turbo and 3.15 than it did with the 3.64 and supercharger whether in town or on the highway. You have to experience it to understand. Right now, you can get 3 psi at 3500-4000 rpm. With a turbo, you get 15 psi at 3500-4000 rpm. Your torque is so much higher that a 3.64 would just get in the way of traction unless you were running drag radials and maybe even then unless they were heated up.

    I was at the point with the supercharger where I was ready to do a 6 speed to relax the highway driving (my exhaust was loud like yours). Instead, I sold the supercharger and added the proceeds to the 6 speed conversion and went turbo. Way better drive ability, way more power (and my supercharged motor was making 463/368 SAE on a Dynojet).

    The S54 conversion would be great for a naturally aspirated car. But I like power too much and a small high revving motor just doesn’t give enough of it. Very controllable, very easy to drive on a track, very predictable. I have a modded 08M3 that is similar in nature. If you make the effort to wind it up and drive it hard, it is entertaining but it is so much more work to nakevoerform than the turbo E36 that has such tremendous torque that you don’t have to downshift and wind it up to have fun.

    I have modded my turbo from its original 500 rwhp and 500 lbs rwtq in 2010 to more like 700 rwhp and 600 lbs rwtq and broken some stuff as a result. Like a couple of 5 speed trans. That is the only reason I am going to a 6 soeed. Strength.

  8. #33
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    That's kind of where i am with the car. I sold the supercharger 6 months ago and still haven't done a whole lot to the car, just fixing the small annoying things on the car. I also was not making anywhere near your numbers. I think like 320whp just a stage one c38 kit with a slightly smaller pulley. I've always have wanted to go to a 6 speed but haven't really had a need to other than just wanting to. Looks like the kit to get the n54 6 speed to work is $3250 which doesn't sound bad when you'd need to get a good clutch anyways going turbo. Ideally i would want to build it right the first time and not have to redo things so the 6 speed conversion is appealing in case i ever wanted allot of power which i highly doubt i would.

    Did you break much at 500whp or was the car kinda happy at the power level?

    Volloso how does the clutch feel in that kit? fairly reasonable for a daily driver?

    I may consider that swap for the s54 swap because i really want it to be a 6 speed and i eventually want to do an RMS supercharger on it, but that's probably a pipe dream i need to let go of

  9. #34
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    I agree with you on the build it right. I donít know how you value your free-time, but being broken down for a week and replacing one trans is worth enough to offset the cost of half of the gs6 kit for me.. hah.

    That being said if you are only ever making 500whp/450wtq the kit really doesnít balance out. You can get by with a 500$ clutch setup pretty easy. The trans swap becomes more valuable as soon as you get into the 500+ wtq numbers, because you start needing a twindisk. The cheapest twin you can buy new is about 1500$. Then if you decide to swap later you have to also swap the clutch kit.. and then the time.

    As far as drivability, if you have ever driven a twin they are a little different. The engagement and throw is shorter and more aggressive. That being said this clutch was designed to be a driver. It has a oem+ pedal weight to it and a reasonably flywheel weight. Ie Minimal chatter and easy pedal effort. Once you have learned to drive a twin Iíd say itís one of the easiest twins I have ever driven, and absolutely daily drive-able.

    I offer an 850tq clutch package that would be even easier than the 1000tq Iím driving now. I donít think thereís any way you would be upset with the clutch setup.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    1989 535i - sold
    1999 M3 Tiag/Dove - sold
    1998 M3 Turbo Arctic/black - current
    2004 Built motor TiAg/Black - Sold
    2008 E61 19T Turbo-Wagon - current
    2011 E82 135i - S85 Swap - current
    1998 M3 Cosmos S54 swapped Sedan - current

    1998 Turbo: PTE6870 | 1.15 ar | Hp Cover, Custom Divided T4 bottom-mount, 3.5" SS exhaust, Dual Turbosmart Compgates, Turbosmart Raceport BOV, 3.5" Treadstone Intercooler, 3.5" Vibrant resonator and muffler, Arp 2k Headstuds | Arp 2k Main studs | 87mm Je pistons | Eagle rods | 9.2:1 static compression, Ces 87mm cutring, Custom solid rear subframe bushings, Akg 85d diff bushings, 4 clutch 3.15 diff, , Poly engine mounts, UUC trans mounts W/ enforcers, 22RPD OBD2 Stock ECU id1700 E85 tune, 22RPD Big power Transmission swap w/ GS6-53

  10. #35
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    All that being said, I always install and recommend more clutch than people anticipate. Itís just not one of those things you want to do again. And a slipping clutch or broken trans is about the worst.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    1989 535i - sold
    1999 M3 Tiag/Dove - sold
    1998 M3 Turbo Arctic/black - current
    2004 Built motor TiAg/Black - Sold
    2008 E61 19T Turbo-Wagon - current
    2011 E82 135i - S85 Swap - current
    1998 M3 Cosmos S54 swapped Sedan - current

    1998 Turbo: PTE6870 | 1.15 ar | Hp Cover, Custom Divided T4 bottom-mount, 3.5" SS exhaust, Dual Turbosmart Compgates, Turbosmart Raceport BOV, 3.5" Treadstone Intercooler, 3.5" Vibrant resonator and muffler, Arp 2k Headstuds | Arp 2k Main studs | 87mm Je pistons | Eagle rods | 9.2:1 static compression, Ces 87mm cutring, Custom solid rear subframe bushings, Akg 85d diff bushings, 4 clutch 3.15 diff, , Poly engine mounts, UUC trans mounts W/ enforcers, 22RPD OBD2 Stock ECU id1700 E85 tune, 22RPD Big power Transmission swap w/ GS6-53

  11. #36
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    08 E90M3; 99 E36M3 Turbo
    500 rwhp was the best power level in my experience for performance without breakage. You will only break stuff launching on drag radials.

  12. #37
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    I have never driven a twin clutch as far as i know. The closest thing i could think of would be an R8 but i have no clue what they have in them

    also agree, don't want to open it back up just to upgrade a clutch and then basically lose the money that was spent on the clutch that is already in there


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    500 rwhp was the best power level in my experience for performance without breakage. You will only break stuff launching on drag radials.
    I don't plan on ever being on a drag radial, but i'm sure allot of people started out thinking they wouldn't be. So that's good news. I guess i need to keep on doing research and figure out exactly what i'm wanting from the cars

  13. #38
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    All 3 clutch splines are different — ZF320, Getrag 420G and GS6-53. Ideally you make the right long term decision now. Twin discs are great — I have one from the factory in my 08M3. But you don’t need one for 500 rwhp. I have been running a south bend “stage 5” (might be called something else today) for 8 years with 500-700 rwhp.

  14. #39
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    hiw much did the south bend clutch run you? seems like they are pricey compared to others

  15. #40
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    It was even pricier because I bought a new flywheel and the clutch. I think I paid $400 for the flywheel and $900 for the clutch. This was 8 years ago. There are more options today - I could buy a twin disk today for about the same. The bang for the buck is an FX400. People have also had good luck with the eBay equivalent — I forget the name. All depends on the power you want to hold and the pedal feel you want.

  16. #41
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    I think most people get the FX clutches from eBay, but the numbers they say they are capable of aren't that much

  17. #42
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    1992 BMW 325is
    As I was reading your posts the question that come to my head is have you completed 6 speed tranny upgrade?

  18. #43
    Join Date
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    1992 BMW 325is
    Any chance you could share where I could find necessary info to swap 2004-2006 e46 330i/330ci 6 speed transmission into my 92 e36 325is with m50bu25 non vanos? My getrag 250 is leaking and grinding 1st and second. Since replacement would include a tons of labor and time this maybe a good time to source all necessary conversion parts and upgrade.
    any help would be greatly appreciated
    thanks

  19. #44
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    Google will be your friend as I have only done the 420g swap

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