Does a airco radiator fit in a non airco 325i without extra modifications?

[klaas]

Hi,

This is my first thread on bimmerforums.
Im planning to do a preventative replacement of some parts of the cooling system that have not been replaced yet (belt,pulleys,fan clutch,radiator,2hoses, some o-rings).

The main problem is that im a beginner and dont have a garage so im thinking of hiring a car lift.
Because of this reason i need to do it the first time right and i need the right parts.

My car does not have airco and im thinking of swapping it with an airco radiator because it has a little more capacity and not expensive: Nissens NS 60623A
Does anybody know if this is a drop-in replacement when the car does not have airco? Do i need to make any modifications for it to fit?

thanks

[galuple]

That is a radiator for a 318 and it will not fit.

[Deus Ex Machina]

I put in a Mishimoto. Aftermarket Radiators aren't expensive in my opinion unless you get an X-Line.

[klaas]

That is a radiator for a 318 and it will not fit.

This radiator is indeed for the 318i, but also for the 325i:


https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/par...907&series=E36

The bmw part number of the radiator is: 17111728907

Searching multiple sites the Nissens NS 60623A matches this part number.

Could it be that the confusion is that in Canada you have the tropical version of the radiator for 6-cyl? Cars from Europe dont use this.

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I put in a Mishimoto. Aftermarket Radiators aren't expensive in my opinion unless you get an X-Line.

Yes, i would like that one, but i was thinking it is a bit overkill without other mods. And its $150 more expensive then a Nissens/Behr here in europe.

[galuple]

Possibly, I looked up the Nissens part number and the site I use told me 318 only. And now I'm thoroughly perplexed because the European 6cyl cars seem to use a smaller radiator than the NA spec cars.

Eyeballing it, the mounting points are the same, but you'd need different radiator hoses because the ones you have would be too long, since the non-AC radiator sits lower in the engine bay.

[klaas]

Possibly, I looked up the Nissens part number and the site I use told me 318 only. And now I'm thoroughly perplexed because the European 6cyl cars seem to use a smaller radiator than the NA spec cars.

Eyeballing it, the mounting points are the same, but you'd need different radiator hoses because the ones you have would be too long, since the non-AC radiator sits lower in the engine bay.

Ive found this comparison of the two radiators by this guy:

https://e28goodies.com/insert-some-p...-the-m52-swap/

Untitled-1.jpg
Im pretty sure this compares the Nissens nissens 60735A (non airco) vs 60623A (airco version)

This comparison would only give certainty when it would also include the height of the reservoir, which it doesnt.
But it leads me to believe that the places where to hose connects to are the same, the airco version if just deeper.

I hope somebody on the forum has swapped these before, and can tell me:

- Do they attach the same to the car (mounting points)
- Does the airco get water from some extra port on the radiator and if yes does this come with a plug so its sealed by default

[galuple]

Can’t answer on the first question but I’ve done a few radiators on the North American cars and none of them had any connection between the AC and the radiator. I think the only reason why the AC version is bigger is because the AC condenser blocks part of the radiator when they’re installed together, so you need that extra area so some airflow gets on it.

[klaas]

Can’t answer on the first question but I’ve done a few radiators on the North American cars and none of them had any connection between the AC and the radiator. I think the only reason why the AC version is bigger is because the AC condenser blocks part of the radiator when they’re installed together, so you need that extra area so some airflow gets on it.

Ha, thats usefull to know.. sounds like the reason for the bigger radiator

[E36328Coupe]

There is no physical interaction between the large radiator and the aircon, they don't even share any common mounting (I dumped aircon on the 328)

[klaas]

There is no physical interaction between the large radiator and the aircon, they don't even share any common mounting (I dumped aircon on the 328)

And do you know if the large (airco) radiator has the same mounting as the non airco version? (hoses + all mounting points)

[E36328Coupe]

And do you know if the large (airco) radiator has the same mounting as the non airco version? (hoses + all mounting points)

Not till I get my 328 back sunday or Monday to compare it to wife's 325

[ed323i]

Check my answers #5 and #6 in this thread: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...ues-318-to-325 .. It explains the difference between the 318i and M50/M52 radiators in the US. In Europe almost all E36s (4 and 6 cylinder) use the US '318i' radiator. To mount the 318i radiator you need another bracket, explained in answer #6.

[E36328Coupe]

TWO six cylinder E36 normally on my drive. 325 non-aircon small rad and 328 aircon large rad. The one in your thread seems to cross reference to the larger of the two.
I expect seeing as he is in Europe and I am too for a while that he sees what I see on my drive.

[klaas]

Check my answers #5 and #6 in this thread: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...ues-318-to-325 .. It explains the difference between the 318i and M50/M52 radiators in the US. In Europe almost all E36s (4 and 6 cylinder) use the US '318i' radiator. To mount the 318i radiator you need another bracket, explained in answer #6.

Are you talking in that thread about converting a tropical radiator to a 318 rad?

This link in that thread describes the non airco radiator mounting: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=17_0958

And this one the tropical radiator mounting: https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=17_0960


I cant find any chart with mounting specific to the airco version radiator.
So then i could conclude, either the non airco or the tropical version mounting is the same as the airco mounting... but which one?
If you need those brackets to convert tropical to something else i would say then the the airco (non tropical) mounting is the same as the non airco

[E36328Coupe]

Just wait till I get my 328 back on Monday and do some pictures of both. Patience makes life easier

[ed323i]

Hi Klaas.. I just saw you're from the Netherlands. I was born there too, but live in Spain 7 years now. In Dutch: "Fantastisch hier, omdat je helemaal geen rekening meer hoeft te houden met roestende dorpels, spatbordranden, achterklep, etc."

In the US it's a lot different, the radiators, as they have a separate reservoir, while in Europe it's integrated (except M3 I think).
So, I'm quite certain you can just install it. I bought a new one last month for my 323i which has A/C. Really cheap at AutoDoc (link in other thread I think). Seems okay quality, and a straight fit. I'm certain it will just fit in your car. I think the A/C-version is a bit higher (extends lower), but the mounting points are exactly identical to the non-AC version.

[klaas]

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Hi Klaas.. I just saw you're from the Netherlands. I was born there too, but live in Spain 7 years now. In Dutch: "Fantastisch hier, omdat je helemaal geen rekening meer hoeft te houden met roestende dorpels, spatbordranden, achterklep, etc."

In the US it's a lot different, the radiators, as they have a separate reservoir, while in Europe it's integrated (except M3 I think).
So, I'm quite certain you can just install it. I bought a new one last month for my 323i which has A/C. Really cheap at AutoDoc (link in other thread I think). Seems okay quality, and a straight fit. I'm certain it will just fit in your car. I think the A/C-version is a bit higher (extends lower), but the mounting points are exactly identical to the non-AC version.

Hi!

Groeten uit nederland, im very jealous and i had ideas about travelling to south europe and get a non rusting e36. Ive been drooling over some in Greece (although it seemed that the clear coat was peeling at some of them)
So please lemme contact me when you there is a nice non rusting M3 somewhere in your neighbourhood !

This gives me confidence that it will fit.

I noticed that there is a some kind of snap on plastic plate right where the the a/c radiator would go deeper that the non ac i have now. If i remove this it will go through that hole and the a/c radiator will extend behind the front bumper... not sure if i explain this clear enough

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Just wait till I get my 328 back on Monday and do some pictures of both. Patience makes life easier

Yes, you are right.

It just that i need to order the parts coming days and its hot here for weeks already. Afraid that the hoses will not take much more.
Appreciate your help, looking forward to see the pictures

[klaas]

Can somebody confirm this question i asked in this new thread:

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...3#post30065473

Maybe i shouldnt have made a new thread for it, but im a bit nervous to mess this up.

[klaas]

Installed all the parts, working well so far.

Radiator fitted perfectly:

Nissens NS 60623A
BMW part number: 17111728907
(airco version)

Old/removed radiator:

BMW part number: 17111712982
This was a Behr non airco radiator, not sure what the Behr number was for it but it was made in 1994, installed by BMW, and has been on the car for 150.000km.

No extra parts or mods required. Just needed to reuse the rubber things the radiator sits on and the rubber inlays where the 2 black clips on the top of the rad click in.

(Also fitted a Sachs visco, Contitech belt, Ina Idler, Ina Tensoner, OEM upper and lower radiator hose)

[ed323i]

Cool! Great work. And thanks for letting us know the radiator fits.

Did it help to have the lift available or did you manage to do everything from above the engine bay?

[klaas]

Cool! Great work. And thanks for letting us know the radiator fits.

Did it help to have the lift available or did you manage to do everything from above the engine bay?

Drained the block too. I wasnt sure if coolant would come out the 3 radiator hoses (especially the engine return one) when i wouldnt.
It was easy to reach the bolt on the block with the lift.

Just made everything a bit easier, like removing the level sensor from the radiator.

And i really wonder how i could have kept coolant from leaking all over the parking lot when i removed the bolt from the engine. It went everywhere.. and the stream of coolant changed direction so i made quite some pools of coolant on the floor. I knew that but they did not have a larger thing to drain it into.

Also discovered a small leak/seap/sweat of oil from the valve cover gasket because of that while the gasket has been put in by a garage only 5000km ago... what the hell.

Was quite expensive though. But felt more comfortable to be in such a place as i have never worked on cars before.

I was thinking if there is a really clean way of draining it from the block for future changes.

[jc43089]

No clean way of draining the block, it splashes all over the exhaust. It's harder to get out of the way when doing it on jack stands though

[klaas]

No clean way of draining the block, it splashes all over the exhaust. It's harder to get out of the way when doing it on jack stands though

Yep, i was expecting it, ready to jump aside, i saw another mechanic doing it on my car before... and still got a bit in my hair

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No clean way of draining the block, it splashes all over the exhaust. It's harder to get out of the way when doing it on jack stands though

Maybe sticking a large funnel/or tube around the hole and sticking it around the hole with double sides tape.. and making a small hole in it to undo the last bit of the screw Crazy idea probably.

[ed323i]

Kudos for the great job, especially it being your first home mechanic job. Definitely not the easiest job to do as first job.

I myself started at a young age, helping my father a bit while he was working on his cars. And later, at age 16 I worked on my oldtimer Honda 4-stroke 50/70cc motorcycles (mopeds). That's when the awe for technique and good engineering began. Then, at age 19 or 20 I bought my first car, a VW Golf, which I sold two months later, and then my first BMW, an E30 316 (1.76 liter M10 carburetor model) and then I was completely hooked on BMW. Approximately 20 BMW's later (ranging from E28 528i, E30, E32 740iL, E34, E36's, some I kept, some for making a buck) I'm now happily driving my E36, which in the end I find the best compromise between sportiness/handling/weight/power/chassis stiffness/comfort/rawness/directness,etc. Would have loved to have a 328i though for just that little more grunt, but with the chip tune and 328i exhaust, the 323i is quite fast already. And sometimes I also miss my extremely reliable E34 525i M50, which was truly great to drive on the highway.

About renting the garage: Even though it was expensive, it would be interesting to go to the Ekris nearby (the major Dutch BMW dealer network) and ask how much it would have costed, parts included ;-) .

[klaas]

Kudos for the great job, especially it being your first home mechanic job. Definitely not the easiest job to do as first job.

I myself started at a young age, helping my father a bit while he was working on his cars. And later, at age 16 I worked on my oldtimer Honda 4-stroke 50/70cc motorcycles (mopeds). That's when the awe for technique and good engineering began. Then, at age 19 or 20 I bought my first car, a VW Golf, which I sold two months later, and then my first BMW, an E30 316 (1.76 liter M10 carburetor model) and then I was completely hooked on BMW. Approximately 20 BMW's later (ranging from E28 528i, E30, E32 740iL, E34, E36's, some I kept, some for making a buck) I'm now happily driving my E36, which in the end I find the best compromise between sportiness/handling/weight/power/chassis stiffness/comfort/rawness/directness,etc. Would have loved to have a 328i though for just that little more grunt, but with the chip tune and 328i exhaust, the 323i is quite fast already. And sometimes I also miss my extremely reliable E34 525i M50, which was truly great to drive on the highway.

About renting the garage: Even though it was expensive, it would be interesting to go to the Ekris nearby (the major Dutch BMW dealer network) and ask how much it would have costed, parts included ;-) .

Thanks!! Was nervous about it, proud that i actually did it. Replaced also small things like hose clamps and the small o-ring of the level sensor. Torqued every thing above 20nm with torque wrench.

I cant imagine i want another car then the E36, love the lines, love the M50, love the balance and directness of handling.

When i was young a friend was always modifying 'mopeds' to get them to go faster.. He was really good at it, i bought them from him. I was more into computers.

But i always wanted to learn it too, and now i have this car.

I fixed BMX bicycles when i was young, with wrenches, now i have a socket set.. geezz.. i was almost dissapointed how much faster that is, was nice to use.

Yeah that would be waay more expensive, Ekris, i ordered the OEM hoses and coolant there. Pay crazy prizes for a radiator and fan clutch..

Now lets hope everything holds up when i floor it, tested it for about 45mins at low rpm.