Lower Timing Chain Cover Removal

[Jerry Scholder]

timing chain cover removal.jpglower timing cover.jpgtiming cover outside bolt1.jpgtiming cover diagram.jpg

2001 740i E38. Recently removed all bolts from lower cover, (15--10-10mm and 5-13mm not including oil pan, (5) and (1) outside engine. Checked against diagram.
Will not detach. Thinking maybe I did not remove all crankshaft parts, but found nothing on this. If I do have to use "force" to dislodge would like some advice as to the best way and best place to work this so I don't break anything. Any help would be great.

[Jerry Scholder]

The only bolt in question would be if I took the right outside engine bolt out. I managed to get the passenger side of the cover loose on top. The gaskets used are metal. I had to use a crow bar and still can't find a place to pry from on the drivers side. This is beginning to make the Jesus Bolt seem like fun in comparison. Please help.

[bmwdirtracer]

There are bolts which come upwards from within the upper oil pan. Your picture #2....see those lumps in the lower oil pan? There are bolts there, only accessible from inside the upper oil pan.

Also, I don't think you can have that air conditioning bracket still bolted on. That 13mm bolt head to the left (in the picture) of the crank snout needs to go away, and I'd likely remove the entire a/c bracketry too.

And....you know that if you pull that cover outwards without dropping the oil pan a little, you're going to rip the oil pan gasket, right?.

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EDIT: Are you doing timing rails and chain? Are you aware that JUST the lower timing cover, not including chain and rails, is a 22 hour job, for a pro with every tool? The chain replacement pays 36 hours.

[Jerry Scholder]

There are bolts which come upwards from within the upper oil pan. Your picture #2....see those lumps in the lower oil pan? There are bolts there, only accessible from inside the upper oil pan. Got That.

Also, I don't think you can have that air conditioning bracket still bolted on. That 13mm bolt head to the left (in the picture) of the crank snout needs to go away, and I'd likely remove the entire a/c bracketry too. A/C bracket removed and 13mm bolt also. Not sure about the entire a/c bracketry?

And....you know that if you pull that cover outwards without dropping the oil pan a little, you're going to rip the oil pan gasket, right?. At the moment, this seemed like the least of my problems, however dropping the oil pan makes sense; good idea.

- - - Updated - - -

EDIT: Are you doing timing rails and chain? Are you aware that JUST the lower timing cover, not including chain and rails, is a 22 hour job, for a pro with every tool? The chain replacement pays 36 hours.

​I'm getting close to having all the tools for this job; a few more probably.

Chris: Thanks for staying in touch. There should be 5 bolts within the upper oil pan, but I took like all of them off just in case. Now the outside bolt, I'm still wondering if I got the right one...maybe you can refer me to a picture or site to refresh my memory. The air conditioning bracket was also removed along with a couple of bolts that I thought might be important; didn't matter in the end. The 13mm bolt in the front also was taken out; no luck there. Dropping the oil pan a little is a great thought and I will do this. Will also take a thin blade to the bottom gasket to hopefully loosen it up. Will do timing rails, but probably not the chains.
I've probably already got 30-40 hours in now. I'm retired. It was fun till the timing cover, but it will get fun again. The hours are unimportant, finishing the work, and doing it correctly is the main goal and I'll complete it; especially with the bimmerforum members helping out. Can't believe you thought I was going to give up.

[Jerry Scholder]

There are bolts which come upwards from within the upper oil pan. Your picture #2....see those lumps in the lower oil pan? There are bolts there, only accessible from inside the upper oil pan. Got That.

Also, I don't think you can have that air conditioning bracket still bolted on. That 13mm bolt head to the left (in the picture) of the crank snout needs to go away, and I'd likely remove the entire a/c bracketry too. A/C bracket removed and 13mm bolt also. Not sure about the entire a/c bracketry?

And....you know that if you pull that cover outwards without dropping the oil pan a little, you're going to rip the oil pan gasket, right?. At the moment, this seemed like the least of my problems, however dropping the oil pan makes sense; good idea.

- - - Updated - - -

EDIT: Are you doing timing rails and chain? Are you aware that JUST the lower timing cover, not including chain and rails, is a 22 hour job, for a pro with every tool? The chain replacement pays 36 hours.

I'm getting close to having all the tools for this job; a few more probably.

Chris: Thanks for staying in touch. There should be 5 bolts within the upper oil pan, but I took like all of them off just in case. Now the outside bolt, I'm still wondering if I got the right one...maybe you can refer me to a picture or site to refresh my memory. The air conditioning bracket was also removed along with a couple of bolts that I thought might be important; didn't matter in the end. The 13mm bolt in the front also was taken out; no luck there. Dropping the oil pan a little is a great thought and I will do this. Will also take a thin blade to the bottom gasket to hopefully loosen it up. Will do timing rails, but probably not the chains.
I've probably already got 30-40 hours in now. I'm retired. It was fun till the timing cover, but it will get fun again. The hours are unimportant, finishing the work, and doing it correctly is the main goal and I'll complete it; especially with the bimmerforum members helping out. Can't believe you thought I was going to give up. I've got the passenger side loose but the drivers side doesn't have a good spot to use a crow bar w/o possibly damaging something. timing cover diagram.jpgtiming chain cover removal.jpgoil pan bolts.jpg

[Jerry Scholder]

Additional pictures of outside bolt removed. FYI

[bmwdirtracer]

I don't recall thinking you were going to quit; I was letting you know this is a very involved job. You need to replace the oil separator while you have the timing chain off. It's very fragile at the top, and if and when it breaks, you have to do the whole job again.

There are a couple of dowels going into the timing cover from the block. so you'll be prying GENTLY forward . It looks to me like you've got all the bolts out.

[Jerry Scholder]

timing chain cover removal.jpglower timing cover.jpgtiming cover outside bolt1.jpgtiming cover diagram.jpg

2001 740i E38. Recently removed all bolts from lower cover, (15--10-10mm and 5-13mm not including oil pan, (5) and (1) outside engine. Checked against diagram.
Will not detach. Thinking maybe I did not remove all crankshaft parts, but found nothing on this. If I do have to use "force" to dislodge would like some advice as to the best way and best place to work this so I don't break anything. Any help would be great.

The diagram pictured that I was using for reference was not the right one for my vehicle, (2001 740i). It did not show a bolt that I missed. Fortunately "oldroller" saw my post and knew exactly what bolt I probably missed from his experience and he was right and the cover came off like butter. On to new challenges ....
A little issue with a part of the gasket being damaged; hopefully all in the front. Don't know yet if there is any way to confirm that other areas are not damaged.
I was going to seal the upper oil pan all the way around if possible.

[MauiM3Mania]

Parallel thread here.

[Jerry Scholder]

​I'm getting close to having all the tools for this job; a few more probably.

Chris: Thanks for staying in touch. There should be 5 bolts within the upper oil pan, but I took like all of them off just in case. Now the outside bolt, I'm still wondering if I got the right one...maybe you can refer me to a picture or site to refresh my memory. The air conditioning bracket was also removed along with a couple of bolts that I thought might be important; didn't matter in the end. The 13mm bolt in the front also was taken out; no luck there. Dropping the oil pan a little is a great thought and I will do this. Will also take a thin blade to the bottom gasket to hopefully loosen it up. Will do timing rails, but probably not the chains.
I've probably already got 30-40 hours in now. I'm retired. It was fun till the timing cover, but it will get fun again. The hours are unimportant, finishing the work, and doing it correctly is the main goal and I'll complete it; especially with the bimmerforum members helping out. Can't believe you thought I was going to give up.

EDIT: Are you doing timing rails and chain? Are you aware that JUST the lower timing cover, not including chain and rails, is a 22 hour job, for a pro with every tool? The chain replacement pays 36 hours.

Sign me up!! I'll do it for 35 hours and $100/hour; have it ready for Christmas. LOL

[bmwdirtracer]

That steering gear banjo bolt pays 6 minutes.

Something's always there to bite you in the ass......

Make damned sure you replace the oil separator apparatus behind the chain. Personally, I'd do the chain, because, well, you don't want to ever see the inside of the lower timing cover again, do you?

[Jerry Scholder]

Parallel thread here.

Got it. I was trying to get some help from a forum that had more expertise, whereas I was not getting any from the E38 forum at times. Will keep the parallels to a minimum; got carried away. Thanks for your interest.

[Jerry Scholder]

That steering gear banjo bolt pays 6 minutes Please, please tell me if both bolts almost next to each other both need to be out? It's not the banjo bolt I'm worried about....or are they both banjo bolts?
Something's always there to bite you in the ass.....I always bite back.

Make damned sure you replace the oil separator apparatus behind the chain. Personally, I'd do the chain, because, well, you don't want to ever see the inside of the lower timing cover again, do you?

You bet!! The darn thing cracked and left me no option. Also rechecked my cam locks to confirm proper fit; glad I did. Numbers were up, but the cam blocks weren't seated all the way. The chain looks damn good and I haven't heard of many cases where the chain has been the problem. I'm doing it anyway because I want to continue to take your advice; its been pretty good so far. In for a penny..... What's your preference for a good timing chain kit assembly?

[bmwdirtracer]

They are both banjo bolts. I'm not sure why you want either bolt out, so I have no idea whether you need them both out. (Why ARE you trying to remove that bolt and line anyway?

On every internal engine part: rails, chains, etc...I use OEM or better. I'd think FCP Euro would have a kit of all the rails and chains and tensioners?

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EDIT:
Here it is:
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw...62tutimingkit1

[Mayorchuck]

Got it. I was trying to get some help from a forum that had more expertise, whereas I was not getting any from the E38 forum at times. Will keep the parallels to a minimum; got carried away. Thanks for your interest.

You don't say.

[bmwdirtracer]

Um, Jerry....you need to know that the E38 forum is the very damned best model-specific forum there is. Their regulars are incredibly erudite, and exceptionally helpful. When I want good information on an E38 or M62, that's where I go.

[Jerry Scholder]

How worried should I be that I over torqued a lower 6mm center bolt on the U guide? Will it really affect the overall strength of the U guide staying in place and not moving? I used a torque ratchet, but either didn't know how to use it or it wasn't working properly. I reviewed a video on how to use a torque ratchet before getting after it again tomorrow. 2001 740i e38. (Broke head off bolt)

[bmwdirtracer]

If you get it out okay, and the next bolt arrives at the correct torque okay, don't worry.

Now, all this said, you really shouldn't be making your very first use of a torque wrench something as crucial as the inside of an engine. When you start using an eighteen-inch long torque wrench on a 6mm bolt, you need to already understand just how easily you can break stuff. If'd you'd have been using a normal 1/4 drive ratchet, five inches long, you'd have been just fine,,,,you'd never have over-torqued that poor tiny bolt.

I'm advising that you go play with the new wrench a bit on non-crucial bolts on a lawnmower or a Honda or something. You can break a 6mm bolt with one finger, on a long wrench. A 6mm thick bolt is tight when you hold whatever wrench FULLY choked up, thumb and forefinger on the head of the wrench where it's contacting the bolt.

I've broken more bolts than you ever will....and so, I've learned a bunch about the subject. The 6mm shaft bolt has one rule: Snug is tight. Tight is broken.

[Jerry Scholder]

Wise advice as always. Thanks.

[Jerry Scholder]

If you get it out okay, and the next bolt arrives at the correct torque okay, don't worry.

Now, all this said, you really shouldn't be making your very first use of a torque wrench something as crucial as the inside of an engine. When you start using an eighteen-inch long torque wrench on a 6mm bolt, you need to already understand just how easily you can break stuff. If'd you'd have been using a normal 1/4 drive ratchet, five inches long, you'd have been just fine,,,,you'd never have over-torqued that poor tiny bolt.

I'm advising that you go play with the new wrench a bit on non-crucial bolts on a lawnmower or a Honda or something. You can break a 6mm bolt with one finger, on a long wrench. A 6mm thick bolt is tight when you hold whatever wrench FULLY choked up, thumb and forefinger on the head of the wrench where it's contacting the bolt.

I've broken more bolts than you ever will....and so, I've learned a bunch about the subject. The 6mm shaft bolt has one rule: Snug is tight. Tight is broken.

Got lucky when I drilled into the bolt and it let loose, the U guide came off and there was a piece I could grab and unscrew it. Hope you can see my question in the E38 forum concerning OS dilemma and an O ring I can't identify where it came from; also a pic of job to date on Timing Chain Guide, and a missing Guide Rail bolt on top of the rail.

[bmwdirtracer]

And now, you see the issue with threads at multiple locations. If you can't be bothered to post your complete information here, I certainly can't be bothered to go look for it somewhere else.

[MauiM3Mania]

Merged with existing thread, original topic.

[Jerry Scholder]

Um, Jerry....you need to know that the E38 forum is the very damned best model-specific forum there is. Their regulars are incredibly erudite, and exceptionally helpful. When I want good information on an E38 or M62, that's where I go.

Never doubted it, and would agree strongly. Members, including you, have gotten me out of real trouble on a number of occasions. I never go to the the other Bimmer sites.

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And now, you see the issue with threads at multiple locations. If you can't be bothered to post your complete information here, I certainly can't be bothered to go look for it somewhere else.

Fair enough. No offense taken.

[Jerry Scholder]

You don't say.

I Love you too Mayorchuck. I should get a bye as a newbie. It's getting better all the time.....

[Jerry Scholder]

Finished with timing and installing new parts. 2 PS hoses in; other 2 waiting for reservoir to be reinstalled. Quick question: Using voltage/ohm meter for continuity check; when numbers on meter change from 1 to many different numbers and down to 4, are we mainly interested in the 1 changing to something else to show continuity? Does it have to be a steady 0 or some other number? Even with new engine mounts, still had to raise engine for better access to install hoses. Are you a fan of using the grub screw on the guide rail in front of the OSV?