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Thread: 83 320is - The Mulligan

  1. #51
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    91 318is - 83 320is
    Last night was dedicated to making the m10 flywheel work with the m42. With the m42 dual mass flywheel/pressure plate/bolts weighing in at 38 lbs and the m10 single mass stuff at 28 lbs, it's obvious this is a great idea. It doesn't cost as much as sourcing an m20 single mass, and actually weighs less. The friction surface for both the m42 and the m10 are the same, so I have high hopes this will be able to handle the small amount of boost I plan to add in the near future.

    Anyway, three of the bellhousing bolts on the m42 trans didn't let loose and the heads were rounded off. BMW decided to start using these silly 8 point type heads, so it's not difficult to screw them all up. After welding nuts to all of them, they broke free and on to flywheel land. I'm pretty sure I can use all of the m10 hardware which are standard 6 point.

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    After pulling all the flywheel/clutch stuff it was time to compare the two. Just like mentioned elsewhere, it all looks doable. The difference in ring gear distance between the m10 and m42 is ~1.74mm with the m10 being closer to the block. The fork engagement with the throwout bearing is ~3mm shorter with the m10. If you try to mount the m10 flywheel directly to the m42 it immediately fouls the rear main seal housing bolts. They stick past the crank flange just ever so slightly.

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    My first solution was to try using some low profile allen heads I had laying around to see if they would clear. These are stainless, so they would need anti-seize or I should consider getting hardware that won't weld itself to it's little threaded friend hole.

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    I got out my feeler gauges to check bolt clearance to the flywheel and got .43mm. My first thought was that's great, but I still would like to get the m10 ring gear closer to the m42 distance. When you swap a single mass m20 flywheel, you drill a couple rivets on the m42 flywheel to remove a little spacer, and that is used as a shim for bolt clearance. So out came the drill. The spacer for this aftermarket LUK flywheel measured in at 2.79mm, which put the ring gear about 1mm past the m42 spot. I think that's a reasonable difference, and this allows me to put the stock bolts back to the rear main seal housing and skip the low profile stainless steel ones. Even better, is that the throwout bearing height ends up at the roughly the same as the m42 stuff. Yeehaw! This is going to work.

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    Now the question is whether I want to try and swap the bendix on the m10 starter with the m42 one. They are slightly different tooth count and diameter. I'm half tempted to try the m42 starter as is with the m10. It's way lighter and smaller in size, making any future repairs much more manageable. The tooth engagement looks decent, but obviously not perfect. I meant to snap some pics of the differences, but it was getting late and my hands were filthy.

    Does anyone have any pro tips on how to swap a starter bendix without destroying stuff? I don't see an easy way to get either one off without major surgery and I have found a couple cheap rebuilt starters that are supposed to be a drop in m10 upgrade with better starting power and lighter weight: the sr441x Bosch. With me needing to buy a full clutch kit the budget is getting thin, and the $62 starter put things too tight I think.
    Last edited by captain awesome; 10-10-2018 at 09:50 AM.
    91 318is
    83 320is

  2. #52
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    Not much done last night other than some garage cleanup, organizing, and checking to see if I can swap ring gears between flywheels. The answer is yes and no. The inner diameter of the m10 is just enough that I would need to machine or grind a millimeter or more from the m42 ring to get it to fit. Probably just going to stick with either the m10 starter or spring for the reman one.



    One thing that sucks about BMW trailing arm suspension is the lack of adjustability. You can buy kits with brackets and eccentric bolts, but they are not budget friendly. Like around $200 for most because the BMW bolts used are around $17-20 EACH before even buying the washers and nuts. So I've found a cheaper solution intended for VW/Audis that still gets me the adjustment I want and effectively cost half of what most places are charging. The eccentrics are just slightly under the size of the ebay brackets, but when turned they rotate and adjust properly without issue. I will be putting a couple spot welds on each one once I get a good alignment figured out.

    E30 subframe adjuster brackets : $53.75 (Ebay)

    Eccentric bolt # WHT001679 : $27.44 for 4 (FCP Euro)

    Eccentric washer # WHT001675 : $8.08 for 4 (FCP Euro)

    Nut # N90635001 : $2.76 for 4 (FCP Euro)

    Total : $92.02

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    91 318is
    83 320is

  3. #53
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    79 320/6 81320i 65malibu
    Side note:

    Think about raising the mounts up 1/2" to 3/4" on the tube when you do the work. This will help keep the stock rear suspension geometry when you lower the car.

    This is a picture of my 323 rear suspension I built for the track car, I made all new pivot points out of .183" or so plate. I had access to a plasma cuter and power brake.

    323 RE 3.jpg

    Always FUN TO DRIVE - Build Thread & Tech info - 79 320/6 track car build thread -- Videos of track car -Adam in car Auto-x video - Start-up video - 4/2011 Adam's TOP BMW time San Diego BMWCCA - 4-5-15 Dyno break-in run new M20B25 - Exhaust Thread - Link

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by OLD MAN View Post
    Side note:

    Think about raising the mounts up 1/2" to 3/4" on the tube when you do the work. This will help keep the stock rear suspension geometry when you lower the car.

    This is a picture of my 323 rear suspension I built for the track car, I made all new pivot points out of .183" or so plate. I had access to a plasma cuter and power brake.

    323 RE 3.jpg
    Hmmmm. I like that idea. I wonder if I would have any clearance issues with the top of the trailing arms? I have a spare subframe which is pictured above that I could tinker with. I assume you just moved the mounting points up for both the same amount overall?
    91 318is
    83 320is

  5. #55
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    79 320/6 81320i 65malibu
    Quote Originally Posted by captain awesome View Post
    Hmmmm. I like that idea. I wonder if I would have any clearance issues with the top of the trailing arms? I have a spare subframe which is pictured above that I could tinker with. I assume you just moved the mounting points up for both the same amount overall?
    I did not get the machined slide slots you have - I started from scratch and built my own. I can look for the solidworks data for you if you want.

    You could do that but you will have to add to the top of the mount it's self so the bushings have something smooth to twist against.

    Depending on the year of your car you may have to do some underbody reshaping just to turn the subframe mounts upside down to raise the whole subframe and diff. It is all based on how low you want to go.

    Always FUN TO DRIVE - Build Thread & Tech info - 79 320/6 track car build thread -- Videos of track car -Adam in car Auto-x video - Start-up video - 4/2011 Adam's TOP BMW time San Diego BMWCCA - 4-5-15 Dyno break-in run new M20B25 - Exhaust Thread - Link

  6. #56
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    Today was floor pan day. Much like I expected, I didn't get it all finished, but I got a ton of work done. I cut up two pieces and formed them from the dented hood that came with the car. It required scraping off all of the underhood foam, but didn't give me too much fuss. I've got one more spot by the pedal on the driver side and another on the passenger jacking pad that I'll get to later. For now I need to finish getting these plug welded in place. I also scored a cheap set of flywheel bolts that are slightly longer than the m10 so I don't have to cut down all of the m42 ones that are way too long. $3.50 for 9 of them and since I only need 8 it totals $3.11.

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    91 318is
    83 320is

  7. #57
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    Hey nice work! That makes those official bmw floor pans doesnt it?

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by cgifool View Post
    Hey nice work! That makes those official bmw floor pans doesnt it?
    Sure does! It looks better in pics than in person. I’ll need a good amount of seam sealer to keep this from happening again but with it being a dedicated track/auto cross car I doubt it will see a ton of weather.
    91 318is
    83 320is

  9. #59
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    Not much done in the last few days other than studying the wiring harnesses. Had another autocross Sunday and the rest was all family time. The electric door mirrors were removed, and I'll be making blanking plates from pieces of the hood. If I can find some lightweight non-hideous ones to bolt up that would be great specifically for HPDE. Almost forgot I got the m42 up on the engine stand and just about ready to dedicate time to gaskets and refresh. The rest of this week is mostly dedicated to welding in the pan patches that have been made and if possible start making the patch for the pedal area.

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    91 318is
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  10. #60
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    I didn't get much done most of the week. When passing the empty shell in the garage, I did a quick glance and scurried away. I needed a break anyway. My wife thought I had another autocross Sunday, so I told her it was a good time to get some floor pan work in. She agreed.

    I spent the first couple hours starting fires and putting them out with the rubber undercoating being so sensitive to my welding inputs. Once I finished welding in the patches I made the week prior, it was time to cut out the foot area where the pedal hinges. I took some measurements to help me locate the pedal first and cut away. I then spent way too much time fabbing up the hinge bracket, and then scrapping the first piece of patchwork that it would attach to. The second piece worked out okay, so I got it all welded in. The passenger side jacking pad will be next, and it's going to require a little more work higher up into the A pillar zone. I'm hoping to get some time in this week to cut it out and have it patched so all this sheet metal work can end.

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    Last edited by captain awesome; 10-22-2018 at 09:47 AM.
    91 318is
    83 320is

  11. #61
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    I didn't have much time to tinker last night, but I've had a hankering for dash removal. Half of the trim surrounding any buttons or levers are just pure crap, falling apart, and all mounting tabs are nonexistent. There were a couple surprises. The dash felt heavier than I expected, and the heater assembly seemed lighter. I didn't get a chance to weigh it all, but even in the steering column there was some weight shed. I'm guessing about 15-20 lbs including the engine bay cover. All the surrounding metal at the firewall creating the blower housing will be trimmed and a lightweight blanking plate will seal up the big hole. I'm thinking a good chunk of the wires will be deleted when I get to that stage as well.



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    91 318is
    83 320is

  12. #62
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    E30M3,318is,318i,E21320
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  13. #63
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    I stumbled upon a Kirkey seat last night with a harness for $40, and raced over to claim it. After a conversation about my plans for it, he offered to knock $20 off the price to help out. Gotta love that. So for $20 I got a ~15" Kirkey with I think 15 degree layback and an of out of date Simpson 5 point harness. Doubt I'll use the harness, but nothing wrong with more for less. Since it was originally for circle track use, he also had a head bracket that bolts on to the right side. I fit in nice and snug, which is a big relief with such a small seat width. I'll keep my eyes peeled for a larger seat for passenger, but for now I've got the most important one out of the way.

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    91 318is
    83 320is

  14. #64
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    Just wanted to add if you plan cutting anything in the front or dash. Keep the sheet metal beam that goes across to the A pillars, or replace it with 1" or larger tubing. Even if temporary tack in a bar then cut that out etc. It's doing more than it looks especially if cut a firewall. Next support in the front is the dash metal base of the windshield. Just saying look and brace if going to cut. She'll turn into a taco
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by autox320 View Post
    Just wanted to add if you plan cutting anything in the front or dash. Keep the sheet metal beam that goes across to the A pillars, or replace it with 1" or larger tubing. Even if temporary tack in a bar then cut that out etc. It's doing more than it looks especially if cut a firewall. Next support in the front is the dash metal base of the windshield. Just saying look and brace if going to cut. She'll turn into a taco
    I think the stock dash bar will stay for now, but definitely not sure how I'm going to trim the heaterbox metal. I see where it supports the windshield, just need to think on it a bit before diving in.

    Last night was spaghetti night. I'm not scare of wires, but it is always nerve-wrecking when the first wire you clip is the wrong one. Whoops. Anyway, I have a little more trimming to do, and possibly going to make my own fuse panel to get rid of the stock torpedo style fuses. Budget is getting slim, so whatever option I go has to be cheap.

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    91 318is
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  16. #66
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    I bought some generic fuse block from summitracing; don't like it. Its the one on my car now so bought another type. Look at marine stuff IMO much better. Plenty to chose from if shop marine gear on amazon to find what suits you.

    This is the one I'm replacing mine on the 320.
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1



    And for the M3 project picked up a blue seas brand. Blue seas is excellent quality but lots of options just as good as "painless wiring" etc from race shops.
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  17. #67
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    I've been looking at those and similar style variants of those. Unfortunately I have around 15 circuits, and most are only around 12. Still sorting what I have to see if I can pair some of them up or if I need to get two different blocks to distribute from.
    91 318is
    83 320is

  18. #68
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    Last night I planned to get stuff done, but just kept staring at everything and getting discouraged at the overwhelming amount of work left to do. I finally snapped out of it and started stripping down more wires, trimming out the remains of the headliner, removing the rest of the front seat belts, and cutting away the degrading leather on the steering wheel. There's also this ugly alien spaceship thingy that's on the rear window that has bothered me. After some googles I found out it's a cell phone antenna and it's just glued to the glass. I sprayed some adhesive remover on it, put a heat gun to it, and scraped it off with a trim remover tool. It's the little things.


    Almost forgot, I weighed the dash and hvac stuff minus the cluster. I am happy to report 44 lbs of weight savings.


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    91 318is
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  19. #69
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    A few more days have passed, and I haven't managed to get much done other than degreasing the front subframe. That thing was FILTHY, and it's still not really clean yet. I'm off early today, so any spare time I have will be dedicated to dropping the front suspension and subframe to start figuring out motor mounts. If autocross is going to be cold and rainy on Sunday, I'll probably just dedicate that time to cut and weld the mounts. My plan for this month is to get the m42 situated in the engine bay, rad mounted, driveshaft center support bearing brackets made, and start engine harness wiring. All of this has been done by many others before me, and luckily all of them have posted plenty of information to help guide me with each step. Somewhere in there I'll probably do the front suspension stuff and brakes since it will all be out. We'll see though.



    Another thing of note is the SCCA has an upcoming rule proposal to allow motor swaps like mine, so if it passes the car will then be legal for D Prepared. The weight penalty is a little higher, so I'll probably have to add some ballast in the spare tire area since the minimum for my setup would be 2063.96 lbs. Fingers crossed that the rules pass.



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    91 318is
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  20. #70
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    I had a few hours to tear down the front end yesterday with the sole mission to get my hands on the front subframe for motor mount fabrication. I didn't put much effort into separating the control arms from the spindle since they didn't want to let go, but I'll revisit that soon. It took FOREVER to clean the rest of the subframe since it was still plenty caked in car feces. Filthy. Once the caca was mostly removed, I chopped off the factory motor mount bracketry on the driver side and bolted up the new e24 motor mounts (part number 11811132322) to the m42 arms. Since the engine is on a stand I rotated it until the oil pan was level, and measured the angle of the mounts I'll need to fabricate. 20 degrees will do the trick, but since the e24 mounts I got are a bit shorter than the m42 ones, I may have to shim the mounts or build up a higher resting place on the subframe. I think the plan for now is to tack something up real good, and test fit it all to make sure I'm as close to the firewall and low as possible. Fabrication for the mounts won't be until at least Sunday night though, and it's driving me nuts. Forecast for Sunday's autocross is free of rain now, but it's tempting to skip so I can get some more work on the car done.

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    91 318is
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  21. #71
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    I'm tired of the sludge that's glued to the engine, so last night I started the long journey of cleaning it all up. I Hope to have it presentable and some of it ready for paint soon, just need to decide which direction I want to go. The oil cap from the m10 looks way cooler than the m42, so it got swapped. The thermostat was tested, and checks out fine, so it's one less thing to hit the budget.

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    Piles of crap scraped and wire brushed. I haven't started using any solvents or degreaser yet, as I find they end up making things messier when it's caked on this thick.

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    I also spent way too much time comparing the gearing I'll have with the e21 depending on the tire package I eventually go with. My e30 with the same motor and trans redlines in second gear way sooner than I prefer with 4.44 gears. I think ends up causing me more harm than good even with short courses. If I keep the 14" Hoosier package, second gear will top out around 60, which gives me another 7 mph over what I have now since the e21 is 3.91 ratio. At this point I don't know if it will be all that noticeable, but it's worth testing to see.

    gearing comparisons by hatchethairy, on Flickr

    hoosier a7 14- 4.44 by hatchethairy, on Flickr
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  22. #72
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    I'm just continuing to make a mess to the point I have no where to place my feet. I have way more time in cleaning these than I care to admit, but I'm just about ready to put it all back together. The block and pulleys will get a coat of some cheap black paint, but the rest will all just remain as it came from the factory. After dropping the lower oil pan I found remnants of the old timing chain guides, so it appears someone did in fact replace all of the timing components. I feel pretty good about that since all of those parts are getting pretty pricey and would push me over budget.

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  23. #73
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    More engine cleaning, and finally some paint on the intake side of the block has been brushed on. When I pulled the heater pipe, it broke off in the block, this was expected, so the new one was installed. I pulled and cleaned all injectors and put new fuel hoses in place before bolting the upper and lower back into their homes. I managed to figure out hose routing to delete the heater core piping using part of the stock hose and a 90 degree Pex fitting. More pics later, hopefully the motor will be back together and ready to drop in within a few days.

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    Saturday morning drive through the neighborhood.

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    Last edited by captain awesome; 11-12-2018 at 12:28 PM.
    91 318is
    83 320is

  24. #74
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    Not much to report here, just plumbing cooling lines and vaccum stuff still. I ditched the pex elbow and used just a straight coupler which saves me a couple bucks on budget, but also looks to be a better setup overall. My garage was a complete disaster, so I spent some time cleaning up and then focusing on prepping gasket surfaces. I realized I'm missing a couple small o-rings and gaskets, so until they roll in I'm just going to attack the exhaust side to prep for paint.

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  25. #75
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    I spent some time Friday afternoon and Sunday morning knocking out the motor mounts to swap in the m42.

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    The test fit went well, so I burned it all in with the trusty flux core booger welding.

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