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Thread: 83 320is - The Mulligan

  1. #1
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    83 320is - The Mulligan

    So I'm calling this one the mulligan because my first attempt at e21 ownership was aborted due to an overabundance of rust. Last week a local 320is popped up on CL for a price I couldn't pass up. Looking at the pics, I figured it was no more than a parts car. After driving it home and inspecting for rust, I've decided this one is worth saving. The driver side floor board is rusty from the jacking pad almost to the seat mount, and the passenger side is mostly just in the jacking pad but that's it for rust. The hood has a large dent, and the driver side fender is crumpled up pretty good, but there is a 78 320i at the local yard I can snatch some body parts from. The seller mentioned that he thought the rear driver wheel bearing was on the way out, and after an hour of highway it started to make some noise. The good news is that I have a spare set of trailing arms, subframe, and axles, so I can just get that all swapped out quickly. The sunroof is sagging at the rear passenger corner allow water in, and the interior is just crap all around.

    At this point, I'm not sure what direction I'm going to go. I have a spare m42/trans and just about everything needed for a swap, but I don't know if it's a worthy candidate. I pulled it from my 318is and swapped it with a known good motor/trans last year. It was left in a field for 11 years and it shows, all rubber parts will need replaced, but I don't think that will be too costly. I'm thinking a little digging is necessary before committing though. If anything it will be a dedicated autocross/track car since my 318is has become more of a daily driver than expected. I've got a set of 14" e30 basketweaves, but they require 15mm spacers. If I go full dedicated racer, 15x7 or 15x8 with some fender work or possibly flares may be in order. Just thinking out loud....

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    - - - Updated - - -

    Just for reference, here is the m42 before it was pulled:

    1AF4AC5B-FA41-401C-8F60-C8227631CA54 by hatchethairy, on Flickr

    DF46BCD5-14E4-4791-9F7B-D4F7070B17F5 by hatchethairy, on Flickr

    CFDA6FBF-6DCB-4444-9D5A-0F10F269DDB2 by hatchethairy, on Flickr

    85BF72F9-098B-4708-AFD2-428E023840E8 by hatchethairy, on Flickr
    91 318is
    83 320is

  2. #2
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    Man my bro's old merc was worse than that, but seriously your about to be Flintstones with your seat on the pavement. Best way would be to just ziz wheel out the entire pan area up to the pedals and spot weld back in a new pan or sheet metal (16/14ga).

    My bros merc came from a boating area not cars, so it was interestingly fixed up with woven high strength fiberglass. You could lay a shop light on the floor under the car and see through to his seat (large fiberglass window) I don't recommend that but there's plenty of temp mod fixes for stuff like this. Do what you feel comfortable with, but once that area is done its inevitable it will have to be cut out to the rails.

    Example is mine in the build thread. I cut off the rails and all then remade them. I was going to plate over them but not much was left. The culprit to this is the sunroof drains. They lead to the rails
    88 M3
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    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  3. #3
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    I think the rails are okay as it appears to be mostly near the rocker area but just far enough over that there's a lip to weld in a new section. I'll know more when I pull the carpet and put a wire wheel to it.

    After some short deliberation, I have decided to build the car as a potential $2019 Grassroots Motorsports Challenge car. I have the potential to recoup my purchase price of $1000 with the transmission, motor, stock weaves, and Recaros. I don't think I'll be winning by any measure, but it's something I've wanted to do for a few years now and I never really had a good base to start with. I'll spend most of my budget focusing on suspension and tires as I feel like that will be my best return with autocross times. Can anyone suggest budget friendly shocks other than Bilstein sports or Koni SA? I'll potentially spend $700 alone on a full poly bushing kit and the Bilsteins, so I'm hoping there may be another option that could work instead.
    91 318is
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by captain awesome View Post
    I think the rails are okay as it appears to be mostly near the rocker area but just far enough over that there's a lip to weld in a new section. I'll know more when I pull the carpet and put a wire wheel to it.

    After some short deliberation, I have decided to build the car as a potential $2019 Grassroots Motorsports Challenge car. I have the potential to recoup my purchase price of $1000 with the transmission, motor, stock weaves, and Recaros. I don't think I'll be winning by any measure, but it's something I've wanted to do for a few years now and I never really had a good base to start with. I'll spend most of my budget focusing on suspension and tires as I feel like that will be my best return with autocross times. Can anyone suggest budget friendly shocks other than Bilstein sports or Koni SA? I'll potentially spend $700 alone on a full poly bushing kit and the Bilsteins, so I'm hoping there may be another option that could work instead.
    With M42 combo or M10? Either way a eaton blower would be neat on that for GRM car. Pretty sure I still have the one 02 racer they put the eaton on it was carb'd M10. Wasn't so great with the carb for corners ie starved but eventually melted the clutch for drag launches

    Meh find someone who doesn't care on a used set of bilstein HD's or sports. If HD's (cheaper) then chop the external tubes an inch or two and weld back together making a sport , then cut your strut housings to match or a bit more and use a spacer tube inside.
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  5. #5
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    If I can get the m42 confirmed to be an okay candidate that would be my best bet I think. If I "sell" the 5 speed, m10, and 320is weaves, and count my previous 320is parts car, I have already recouped my max amount of $1009.

    I'll keep my eyes peeled for dampers and hope a budget friendly set pops up.
    91 318is
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by captain awesome View Post
    If I can get the m42 confirmed to be an okay candidate that would be my best bet I think. If I "sell" the 5 speed, m10, and 320is weaves, and count my previous 320is parts car, I have already recouped my max amount of $1009.

    I'll keep my eyes peeled for dampers and hope a budget friendly set pops up.
    Within budget i'd up compression; pretty sure there's no rules on that. Skim head, thinner mls etc. Would wake it up a bit. Few other tricks that are "cheap" to give a decent advantage for autox etc only car.

    -ford injectors (just buy latest from fiveomotorsport; 4pintle)
    -chip obviously(markD)
    -M20 ltw fly cut down low as can; M20 clutch, custom push rod, M20 throwout bearing
    -time intake cam 2degrees advanced

    you may know about this stuff but gives ideas to search for if don't.
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  7. #7
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    I'll have to check cost on HG and other gaskets necessary to bump compression. I'm afraid I may not have enough in budget to get the head skimmed when it's all said and done, but it's a good idea to explore. I'm open to all ideas at this point as I haven't committed toward anything yet.

    I've got the injectors already, with a couple options to use. I bought 6 used on a 1/2 off day for around $30, and a set of flow matched and cleaned for around $50 from a R3v member.

    I can pull the MarkD chip from my 318is and possibly squeeze it in the budget as I purchased it second hand pretty cheap. Worse case scenario I may just pull the trigger on an ebay one to compare to the MarkD and save some budget money.

    A local buddy may have a spare m20 laying around, hoping he may have a decent clutch and TO bearing with it. I never had to make a different pushrod for my 318is, so that may not be necessary.

    I've never messed with the cam timing, but have read a little about it. Without a dyno I'm afraid it may not net me the gains I want from my little research.
    91 318is
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by captain awesome View Post
    A local buddy may have a spare m20 laying around, hoping he may have a decent clutch and TO bearing with it. I never had to make a different pushrod for my 318is, so that may not be necessary.

    I've never messed with the cam timing, but have read a little about it. Without a dyno I'm afraid it may not net me the gains I want from my little research.
    If memory serves the stack height of the clutch vs the M42 is off less than 1/2". If run into engagement trouble can add length with the push rod. A piece of 1/4" rod trimmed and tapered ends works for making custom ones.

    The cam timing advance isn't for any gains per say, it's to move the power band lower to the under 6k rpms peak. This gives the M42 more off line launch, mid punch, putting the top end power lower where it's more useful by sacrificing a bit of the zingy top revs. Useful for autocross environment since it's rare to stay in top revs. Gives a free solution to that feeling where it's lagging and you always feel in between gears during autocross. The M42 timed stock doesn't have much mid grunt and is full on momentum better suited for track staying at top revs for reward.
    To do this just move the intake a bit more advanced; ie rotation of engine by a small amount.
    88 M3
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    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  9. #9
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    For the moment I'm going to try to focus on suspension. IIRC I can flip rear subframe mounts to help correct geometry, as well as raise the front subframe or shorten it. I'll do some digging again on that stuff and find the threads that have some detail to walk me through it.

    Right now I'm trying to decide on spring rates, sizes, and whether I want to run a rear sway bar. Do you guys run 2.5"x7" front and 2.25"x7" rear or just 2.5" all around? If budget gets tight I may consider cutting a long spring in half effectively doubling the rate? Seen that somewhere, and thought it was kinda cool to spend $15 per spring instead of $30-50.

    I was thinking 350/450 if I ditch the rear bar, but would need custom valving for the rear and that costs money. I may stick with 350/300 with the rear IS bar, but I'm open to suggestions and not married to anything yet.
    91 318is
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by captain awesome View Post
    For the moment I'm going to try to focus on suspension. IIRC I can flip rear subframe mounts to help correct geometry, as well as raise the front subframe or shorten it. I'll do some digging again on that stuff and find the threads that have some detail to walk me through it.

    Right now I'm trying to decide on spring rates, sizes, and whether I want to run a rear sway bar. Do you guys run 2.5"x7" front and 2.25"x7" rear or just 2.5" all around? If budget gets tight I may consider cutting a long spring in half effectively doubling the rate? Seen that somewhere, and thought it was kinda cool to spend $15 per spring instead of $30-50.

    I was thinking 350/450 if I ditch the rear bar, but would need custom valving for the rear and that costs money. I may stick with 350/300 with the rear IS bar, but I'm open to suggestions and not married to anything yet.
    2.5 all around x 7" ; was 350 front 400 rear no bar connected (lately we swapped springs front to rear but my roll centers are not stock by far)

    ideally yes try to get the front subframe attachment to the body up bout all can do with the factory front unless cut notch etc but worth it if can do that too
    88 M3
    91 318is
    91 318i
    83 320is
    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  11. #11
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    For what it's worth, the M20 and M42 have the same throwout bearing part number. I had already ordered an M42 TO bearing and used that for my clutch install. When I purchased an M20 flywheel, I asked for the mostly new clutch and pressure plate that were mated to that flywheel so I didnt have to do any resurfacing.

    I havent hardly driven my car but it seems to have zero engagement issues at low speed. I am going to run on assumptions that all will be good until confirmed otherwise...

  12. #12
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    Good to know on the springs, makes it easier to swap when they are all the same size.

    So it looks like I can get delrin rear subframe mounts, trailing arm bushings, and outer control arm bushings from Garagistic. For the inner control arms I can only get poly, but not sure the durometer that Eurometric makes. I don't see anyone else that makes inners either.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by jaredmac11 View Post
    For what it's worth, the M20 and M42 have the same throwout bearing part number. I had already ordered an M42 TO bearing and used that for my clutch install. When I purchased an M20 flywheel, I asked for the mostly new clutch and pressure plate that were mated to that flywheel so I didnt have to do any resurfacing.

    I havent hardly driven my car but it seems to have zero engagement issues at low speed. I am going to run on assumptions that all will be good until confirmed otherwise...
    I did the same thing on my 318is when I swapped the m20 flywheel. He sent a new TO bearing with it, but the clutch and flywheel were used already. Holding up for me just fine as well. I'm hoping my local source has an inexpensive option for me.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by captain awesome View Post
    Good to know on the springs, makes it easier to swap when they are all the same size.

    So it looks like I can get delrin rear subframe mounts, trailing arm bushings, and outer control arm bushings from Garagistic. For the inner control arms I can only get poly, but not sure the durometer that Eurometric makes. I don't see anyone else that makes inners either.

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    I did the same thing on my 318is when I swapped the m20 flywheel. He sent a new TO bearing with it, but the clutch and flywheel were used already. Holding up for me just fine as well. I'm hoping my local source has an inexpensive option for me.

    I'm a AKG fan especially on the trail arm bushes. Drill mount ears to 1/2" and put 3.5" long grade 8 bolts (no play on that setup). For the subframe mounts you can melt out the rubber from some stock ones, then weld in washers and sleeves making solid mounts. Just my preference

    The M42 may not win ya on the drag race portion, but autox would be fun.
    88 M3
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    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by autox320 View Post
    I'm a AKG fan especially on the trail arm bushes. Drill mount ears to 1/2" and put 3.5" long grade 8 bolts (no play on that setup). For the subframe mounts you can melt out the rubber from some stock ones, then weld in washers and sleeves making solid mounts. Just my preference

    The M42 may not win ya on the drag race portion, but autox would be fun.
    I'll look into the AKG stuff and see if the price is right. Normally I'd throw cash at the best stuff, but at this point I have to be picky.

    Anything I can do to the stock subframe mounts that are budget friendly will help. I've been reading about how OLD MAN flipped his mounts and cut a section off the top to raise it up almost 1.5". I think if I can get 1" up front sectioning the subframe, and 1" in the rear tinkering with mount heights, that will help restore some roll center.

    As for the m42, I love mine. There are times I am wishing for more power, but all that can be fixed with a future turbo. In fact I may try to squeeze that into the budget if I can manage to keep some parts cost down. Whatever I do though, I want to keep legal within the SCCA as that's where I'll run it locally.
    Last edited by captain awesome; 06-26-2018 at 11:44 AM.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by captain awesome View Post
    I'll look into the AKG stuff and see if the price is right. Normally I'd throw cash at the best stuff, but at this point I have to be picky.

    Anything I can do to the stock subframe mounts that are budget friendly will help. I've been reading about how OLD MAN flipped his mounts and cut a section off the top to raise it up almost 1.5". I think if I can get 1" up front sectioning the subframe, and 1" in the rear tinkering with mount heights, that will help restore some roll center.

    As for the m42, I love mine. There are times I am wishing for more power, but all that can be fixed with a future turbo. In fact I may try to squeeze that into the budget if I can manage to keep some parts cost down. Whatever I do though, I want to keep legal within the SCCA as that's where I'll run it locally.
    But you just missed this https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho...owning+atlanta
    88 M3
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    08 X3 3.0si

    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by autox320 View Post
    Yeah I didn't have the cash when it was available. Every time one goes up for sale I'm short on funds.
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  17. #17
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    I pulled the old scuzzlebutt m42 from the corner of my garage to assess it's ability to function properly in the newly acquired e21. Spark plugs are all platinum with 4 electrodes, which from what I gather isn't an upgrade, possibly the opposite. Anyway, cylinder 1 at the front of the car was dry, 2 had a smidge of oil on it, 3 more oil than number two, and 4 was dry. Nothing looks out of the ordinary though. After removing the plug cover there was still a ton of crap sitting in that valley.

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    I popped the valve cover to inspect the cams and timing gears. Honestly I wanted to put this off as the motor, if original to the chassis, had 225k miles BEFORE the odometer gear broke. Much to my surprise the cams look good as well as the upper gear teeth.

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    Upper and lower time case covers were pulled to check plastic guides. Everything looks tip top and normal, even the profile gasket looks okay with a slight bit of squish. I should have powerwashed this before taking it apart though.

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    Profile gasket
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    This is how I left things for the evening. I pulled the oil filter and drained the oil as well, nothing special going on there, just old oil and no metal particles. I'm smitten with the condition of everything I see at this point.
    Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

    I'm going to order some gaskets and such, but need to get a full list together so I can save on shipping. FCP Euro has been the best source price wise and the warranty can't be beat, so I'll probably go with them for the first round of parts.
    91 318is
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  18. #18
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    Since your there and easy access I'd "delete the mess under the intake" ie get rid of the coolant warm plate lines and tap for a plug on the coolant side pipe(the small nipple that sticks up and feeds the warmer plate) crammed next tot he oil canister (actually replace that coolant tube first; it's plastic) has an o-ring to the block that weeps with age.

    Pull at least the lower pan. Pull all bolts surrounding the oil pickup tube for the upper pan inside there. Blue loctite and put back in. May find a few in the pan already when pull it cause they like to end up there

    I'd run some denso or ngk iridium plugs.
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    "If it flys, floats, or f*cks, rent it!"

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by autox320 View Post
    Since your there and easy access I'd "delete the mess under the intake" ie get rid of the coolant warm plate lines and tap for a plug on the coolant side pipe(the small nipple that sticks up and feeds the warmer plate) crammed next tot he oil canister (actually replace that coolant tube first; it's plastic) has an o-ring to the block that weeps with age.

    Pull at least the lower pan. Pull all bolts surrounding the oil pickup tube for the upper pan inside there. Blue loctite and put back in. May find a few in the pan already when pull it cause they like to end up there

    I'd run some denso or ngk iridium plugs.
    I'm glad you mentioned the oil pan stuff! I was thinking of that last night, and like all things lately I completely forgot. Before I do pull the pans I may try to powerwash first to get some of the crud off. I hate working on stuff that's caked in sludge. Mess delete for sure, it's worth the trouble. I think I'm running NGK iridiums in my 318is, so that's probably the direction I will go.

    Tire Rack has a backorder on Bilstein sports for 8-12 weeks. Hoping to find some used ones for a decent price, just have to use patience I guess.

    Almost forgot I took an early lunch to grab the hood and fender off the 78 in the yard.

    Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

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  20. #20
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    I know it's a bit early for cosmetic upgrades, but this story needs told. The previous e21 that was too rusty happened to have a pile of parts go with it that I collected. One major item of note was the fiberglass Motorsport/euro bumpers I had shipped all the way from Latvia for a little over $400 IIRC. I lost my shorts on them when selling off the car, but figured it would be easier to send them on with the car/parts car than try to ship. Much to my surprise when this current challenge car came up for sale, those bumpers and the cars I sold the kid shows up on Facebook Marketplace. His mom listed them for $400 and I figured I would try to pay no more than $200. She agreed to the $200 price, but we just haven't been able to meet up until today. So, basically I bought them twice, but the second time around was budget friendly. I split the purchase with bill of sale receipts to $100 per bumper just in case I can't fit the rear into the budget. I can always install them post challenge. She still wants way too much for the cars I sold, and is currently unwilling to part them out piecemeal.


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    Oh, I also got in my one $57ish dollar GTI Bilstein front damper in the mail. That's right, a brandy new one for a little over $57 shipped from Amazon. It was the last one in stock, so I guess they thought it needed marked down? Either way, I have another on order, hoping it rolls in soon, however it was $150 shipped so there's that. I managed to snag OLD MAN's rear Bilsteins he put up for sale and a pair of e46 camber plates for $35 that I'm hoping will fit with some work.


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  21. #21
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    I'm still here. Nothing has been done so far other than parts collecting and budgeting properly so I can still stay within the challenge budget. I now have a complete set of front GTI Bilstein sports. I also ordered and received a pair of $35 camber plates originally intended for an e46 from ebay. Is it the best quality? Not sure yet, but doesn't look too bad considering the price point. The brand is Maxpeedingrods and I think if I flip the direction and drill new strut tower holes they should do the trick as the bolt pattern is incompatible. As of right now, the parts collecting phase will continue and all work will be held off until after the 31st of August. Our current house has been sold, and our new house should be finished by the builder hopefully on time. We shall see.

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  22. #22
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    91 318is - 83 320is
    Another quick info bump. I don't have an aluminum welder to shorten my aluminum shifter arm. I could probably have someone weld one for me which could cost a few bucks or I could possibly make a heavy bolt on affair. I'm going to try the e46 shifter arm 25111434109 and if I decide not to make my own dssr part 25111434613 should do the trick for the selector rod. The e46 selector rod is 232mm vs. the m42 275mm. By my math and from the info previous m42 swappers have posted, that should put me in the ballpark of the e21 opening, and require no welding or shortening. I still need to get my hands on one to get an official measurement to make sure everything will fit, but I'm fairly confident it should do the trick.
    91 318is
    83 320is

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Houston, Tx
    Posts
    1,978
    My Cars
    '78 320i
    I found a friendly local welder to do the work for me. I think I lopped off 1.25 inches. It was pretty straight forward and cost $10. He was a great guy and I sent him my work for the subframe and some of the tunnel work on the center support bearing mounts. I eventually acquired a welding machine and did future stuff myself.

    If you cant go down the e46 route which feels like its more expensive.


    Jared

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Bentonville, AR USA
    Posts
    497
    My Cars
    91 318is - 83 320is
    Quote Originally Posted by jaredmac11 View Post
    I found a friendly local welder to do the work for me. I think I lopped off 1.25 inches. It was pretty straight forward and cost $10. He was a great guy and I sent him my work for the subframe and some of the tunnel work on the center support bearing mounts. I eventually acquired a welding machine and did future stuff myself.

    If you cant go down the e46 route which feels like its more expensive.


    Jared
    If I can get a local welder to do it for $10 I'm in, but most require a minimum and it's the only thing I can't do myself. A brandy new e46 one is less than $40 from some of the usual online parts sources. I'll check around again and see if anyone local can melt them together, but thought it was interesting that there may be a bolt in solution.
    91 318is
    83 320is

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Bentonville, AR USA
    Posts
    497
    My Cars
    91 318is - 83 320is
    A week or so ago Ebay had a 15% off deal. Like any other budget minded person I immediately depleted my watchlist and pushed it into the purchase history. Last Monday they all flooded in, and today after 3 weeks of waiting, my rear springs finally showed up as well. On top of that I took my phone with a broken screen to Batteries Plus. While there, I had a chat with the associate about a lawn battery I had been eyeballing, but was curious about why they wanted a core charge on it. He said that the core charge will be waived, and because it was for the GRM Challenge, he knocked a few bucks off the 300 cca matching the price of the 230 cca. SCORE! It's physically the same size as the 230, so I'm not losing any space for the extra cranking power.


    A couple years ago I found a pdf file to create a home brew coil on plug bracket. I work in a blueprint shop, so I printed a few sets to scale for free and glue or tape it to the aluminum. Some cutting and drilling should yield a fancy bracket to hold some coils.


    Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr


    Rear 300# springs are in, I may have to move the snap ring to the lower setting. OLD MAN had a groove cut lower on the shocks so 10" springs could be used which is a nice bonus. I guess we will see if that's needed in my case or not. These are assembled from cheap ebay coilover kit sleeves with aluminum top hats. I had to drill the top hat holes to the Bilstein shaft diameter, but that's it.


    Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr


    Front 364# springs about 7 3/4" length.


    Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr


    M20 HD motor mounts. They are shorter than the stock m42 mounts, so I may have to raise them up for bellhousing clearance.


    Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr


    4x100 15mm hubcentric spacers to fit the e30 14" weaves.


    Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr

    Poly steering rack bushings. These are cheap ones from ebay. I really wanted to use Eurometric, but with the tight budget for the Challenge it just had to go this way.


    Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr


    Wheel studs and nuts.


    Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr


    I think this battery should do the trick. Dimensionally it is fairly small, and from my measurements keeps me from having to move the battery to the trunk requiring an expensive amount of wire and a cutoff switch. GRM rules require a cutoff switch on relocated batteries, so for now it will find it's home in the engine bay. It may eventually get relocated to the trunk post Challenge.


    Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr
    Untitled by hatchethairy, on Flickr


    There are ton of parts I need to order soon, mostly suspension stuff so I can get it to roller status. I found some Dorman control arms for a good price, and reviews don't appear to be too terrible on them. If anyone has a late pair of control arms with good ball joints for super cheap I would gladly scoop them up to save a few bucks! I'm also looking for a pair of 23.5mm front sway bushings that are budget friendly.

    I officially move into a new house next week, so HOPEFULLY I can start to strip the car down to sell off parts and install what I have now. I'm ready to actually do some work.
    91 318is
    83 320is

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