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Thread: E36 M3 power steering pump replacement / 32412227197 / 32412227196

  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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    670
    My Cars
    E46 330 ZHP, E36 328i
    Thanks for the suggestions.

    I like the idea of running the 328 oil filter housing to insure it aligns with the rest of the pulleys. I run the E46 oil filter housing with the S54 oil cooler so I'm not sure the internals are the same as the 328. Something to consider looking into.

    Now that you mention the other filter housing.... .... I'm a dumb ass !!
    I'm running the E46 filter housing and the e46 oil pan and pump. If I mount an S54 Power steering pump with the E46 pulley it will align in the exact same plane as the E46 belt. I need to find out if that plane is the same as the E36 relative to the block. With everything else being the same it may just work. I will probably buy a cheap pump from Ebay to test mount. Unless someone has already done it and can confirm either way…
    The only thing is they are not available new either. But being a different design the cam ring may hold up better.

    The rebuilding kits referenced above have always been used when I installed a pump. I've done it myself or purchased it with the kit already installed. It could explain the aeration if the kit is not installed correctly. If the issue is with cavitation, I need to address starvation (The banjo bolt) or the reservoir design (Use the Chase Bay or Off Camber reservoir in place of the OEM).

    I could be wrong but I suspect cavitation because the cam ring surface wears from the contact with the vanes over time. The seal kit does not address that wear but apparently, they can be re-machine and re-treat the surface. Would the worn vanes then match up with the resurfaced cam ring? I will continue exploring that avenue.

    Great inputs !
    https://www.parker.com/Literature/PM...29-0022-UK.pdf

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
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    Central, MD
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    3,847
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    1995 M3
    Franky, Where did you end up on this?
    My new pump is now leaking, and it's not from any of the hose fittings. Maybe seal or between the halves of the pump. New.
    I ordered rebuild kit, and I'll rebuild which ever looks better of my previous used pump and this new one that has a whole 5 days on it.
    WTF.

    I saw a thread where folks were using an electric Volvo pump.
    Maybe a larger pulley will calm things down.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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    670
    My Cars
    E46 330 ZHP, E36 328i
    I was hoping someone would have tried the E46 swap but since no one has the answer I reached out to a race shop for a modified setup. I'm waiting for a reply. In the mean time I bought a used e46 M3 pump and will see if everything aligns.

    The larger pulley will not keep it from aerating the oil or cavitating the cam ring. I did an entire weekend shifting at 6,000 RPM with no issues. When I pushed it to 6,800 all day in failed after 2 hours of track time.

    The more I'm reading the more I think the pump is starved by the banjo bolt or my removal of the filter is allowing air to be trapped in the oil or messing with the back pressure. Mu understanding of the chase Bay setup is that it does not use a filter element but does mange the return pressure to limit the aeration of the oil in the reservoir.

    Unfortunately I can't use an electric pump in a stock class. At some point I'll just change class if I have to.
    This is where I'm at.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
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    Central, MD
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    1995 M3
    I'm thinking of buying a used E46 pump to do a custom fit. If I could find one for $25 to use as a prototype, I'd be all over it.

    There's certainly aeration in the Chase Bays reservoir, the fluid has all those micro air bubbles in it after a run.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    May 2022
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    Florida
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    3
    My Cars
    2018 M3, 1999 M3
    Looks like I’m going to be the one to revive this thread. I currently have a 1999 m3 and having an issue with finding a pump. I have gone through 2 rebuilt ones and 2 after market ones. I am not sure if it was the pumps failing or something to do with the chase bays power steering kit with cooler. None the less I finally was able to find a used OEM pump and put that in and replaced all the lines to factory. The pump is currently functioning fine, however it occasionally wines and acts up on tight turns near full lock at a higher rpm. Was reading this thread to see if anything came of finding another pump like the E46 pumps or anything. Strange enough the original pump I blew up from doing doughnuts was a completely different pump with a bracket the previous owner must have put together because it looked questionable. After putting metal shrapnel from four power steering pumps into my rack I am concerned about the life expectancy of the entire power steering system (even though I flushed it until nothing visible came out). Trying to see if Franky goes has any info on this. Or anyone else for that matter.


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  6. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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    670
    My Cars
    E46 330 ZHP, E36 328i
    Wow time flies !

    Have not taken the car on track for the last two years. With the borders closed, track events have been few and far between. Actually finished refitting the engine in the car after re-boring the cylinders. I used the opportunity to reassemble the power steering on the engine rack to actually torque the banjo bolts to specs for the first time in my life. So this time I know for sure I will not be sucking air from the hose connections. Based on feel, I was not torquing them to specs before. Always been worried to sheer the banjo bolt but it can take a lot.

    The OEM filter and reservoir are in so I'm back to the OEM setup with everything stock and new except for the pump. I have a known good one in so we will see what happens at high revs. I raced this setup for 5 years before I sucked the filter in the line. I'm cautiously optimistic...

    Fun fact : I visually inspected the cam rings on all the pumps in my pump cemetery. All had rough surfaces visually. Including the known good one!! So visual inspection has its limits. Some cam rings are wavy. Those are never going back on the car unless I can find a shop to re-machine them. I have not given up that search yet.

    I did get an E46 M3 power steering pump but in came without the rear L-bracket. Since I do not have a pump already it is useless to me. Looking for another one locally. That being said it looks very much doable. The alignment of the pullies looks good but I can't check the fit of the rear bracket but it should work since we bolt an E36 M3 pump to the E46 oil filter housing and pan... I like the fact that the E46 pump is rated at 8,000 rpm in the S54. It should survive 7,000 RPM on an S52.

    If all goes well the car will be on track June 18th. I will definitely update.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Location
    Florida
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    3
    My Cars
    2018 M3, 1999 M3
    A lot of info, thanks for the update. After going through so many pumps I don’t want to abuse my car because the pump in this car is wounded and whining while turning at higher speeds. I might try to retorque everything if it’s not too far gone. I have been scratching my head trying to figure out what these guys do with S54 swaps. I feel like if someone has the time to cnc machine brackets we could source another pump to fit and work. I am not educated on power steering systems and the PSI or rpm they run or even why the S52s require the restricting filter in the system. I have a couple of friends who race and they have the time and money to figure this out. One of them swapped the electric steering pump from a Mini. I never got into too much info as to how he did it. Do you know anyone resourceful in this subject? Because I’m curious what people do when they LS swap E36s, what they do with the LS pump, what lines they use (if there is a difference in hose diameter and filter in the system) because to my knowledge they keep the E36 rack.


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  8. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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    My Cars
    E46 330 ZHP, E36 328i
    The guys racing S54s in the E36 use the electric mini system that you mentioned.
    I suspect the LS swap guys use purpose built AN lines or also use the electric driven pump. Most race shop would know about it. If not, I can guarantee the guys at Raven can help you. https://ravenperformance.ca/. They build the their race cars using the electric mini setup.

    I race in a class that does not allow an electric conversion so I'm still in the hunt for a mechanical solution.

    The filter in the OEM setup breaks the bubbles, I think.
    The Chase Bay solution uses baffles. I think they both use surface tension properties of the fluid to prevent aeration.

    I suspect that removing the restriction in the return line is detrimental because it decreases pressure on the supply side of the pump. Removing it increases the pressure differential across the pump and the possibility of cavitation at the vanes. I can't explain any of this scientifically though... Just a feeling.

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Seattle
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    5,776
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    99 M3
    One could revert to the M52 oil filter housing and run the M52 PSP, of which there are plenty.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    May 2022
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    Florida
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    My Cars
    2018 M3, 1999 M3
    Thanks for sharing all the info Franky. By the sounds of it, it might be the easiest to go with an electric pump. Because if I understood correctly you can control the pressure by electronically adjusting the rpm of the pump? I was really debating on trying to put together my own power steering system. However I wouldn’t know where to start with pressure and hose diameter not to mention finding a pump that would line up close enough to manufacturer a bracket for it.


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  11. #36
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    Aug 2012
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    Central, MD
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    1995 M3
    FYI, for what it's worth, I have an E46 M3 P/S pump mounted in my E36 w/S52.
    The main bracket and alignment work perfectly. The secondary/lower bracket needs modified unless you have the S54 oil pan.
    The hoses need modified or re-made.
    And I believe a different sized belt is needed (I made multiple changes, so I'm not sure about a completely stock car).

    I'm hoping the S54 pump lasts longer.
    But another big advantage is you can shim the pressure regulator on the E46 pumps to adjust the P/S assist level.

  12. #37
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    Mar 2017
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    Oahu / Los Angeles
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    S54 E36
    Quote Originally Posted by aeronaut View Post
    FYI, for what it's worth, I have an E46 M3 P/S pump mounted in my E36 w/S52.
    The main bracket and alignment work perfectly. The secondary/lower bracket needs modified unless you have the S54 oil pan.
    The hoses need modified or re-made.
    And I believe a different sized belt is needed (I made multiple changes, so I'm not sure about a completely stock car).

    I'm hoping the S54 pump lasts longer.
    But another big advantage is you can shim the pressure regulator on the E46 pumps to adjust the P/S assist level.
    That's ironic as a lot of the E36 S54 car owners I know run the E36 P/S pump, me included since it was plug and play.

    Guess if this one fails, I'll look into switching over to the E46 S54 pump.

  13. #38
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    1995 M3
    The grass is greener on the other side.

    But yea, the easy button would be to run the S52 pump even with an S54 engine cause of hose and reservoir compatibility.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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    E46 330 ZHP, E36 328i
    Thanks Aeronaut !
    Amazing information. That means I only need to fabricate the hoses.
    Thank you.
    Last edited by Franky goes; 06-05-2022 at 09:46 AM.

  15. #40
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    Jun 2010
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    south central PA
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    1997 m3 4dr - e28.....
    Quote Originally Posted by aeronaut View Post
    The grass is greener on the other side.

    But yea, the easy button would be to run the S52 pump even with an S54 engine cause of hose and reservoir compatibility.

    so it looks like im going to need to replace my e36 pump. and will be going to the e46 pump or emulating the z3 4cy setup as im running a z3 rack. i cant see why emulating the factor design parameters of the z3 in my s52 e36 isnt a bad idea given the z3 rack. however the e46 pump and the possibility of a pressure reduction sounds very appealing. im a fan of heavier steering but a non powersteering 7* castor e36 is ridiculous, tried it its retarded.

    seems my options are:

    locate a good/new OEM 96+ e36 m3 pump

    fabricate a bracket and lines for and e46 m3 pump, and have the advantage of a possibility of a pressure reduction ( will possibaly result in lower temps???)

    fabricate a replica z3 4cly setup to maintain factory design perimeters of the z3 rack.

    use a aftermarket or a volvo electric powersteering pump and install a 140 amp alternator and pump wiring. ive been quoted this pvolvo pump needs 40 amps at full tilt.




    im only just starting this rabbit hole but a catavation on hard left steering inputs and some scoring on my e36 pump on rebuild has started a complete PS system rebuild round 4....

    i will be looking for a high quality rebuild for my z3 rack, ive proven to myself beyond any reason of a doubt not to trust the usual suspects...



    im sure alot of us have seen some weeping from the stock reservoir setup, probably from temp related issues. i red something recently about pentosin fluid that i cannot seem to locate again.
    Last edited by scoobiedoo2029; 06-05-2022 at 05:58 PM.

  16. #41
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    1995 M3
    Those look like the right list of options.
    For the E46 M3 (and I assume non M) pump, the main bracket that comes with it fits the S50/S52 engine perfectly. The "secondary" lower bracket bolts into the oil pan on the E46, so that needs to be modified on the E36 (I have an E46 oil pan on my S52, so all the brackets fit fine, and pulley alignment is perfect).

    Being able to shim the regulator in the E46 pump is golden.

    Chase Bays restrictor that they sell for the E46 M3 pump creates a F-TON of heat. I removed it, and I think I burned up a newly rebuild pump (I was running without a cooling loop without issue), luckily FCPEuro to the rescue.

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
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    North Augusta SC
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    I'm running the pump from my S50 on a S54 swapped E36M3. After 10 years and about 12K miles of track duty since the swap, I started getting minor leakage from my PS pump. I rebuilt the pump last year and it worked fine until now. It has started howling under load, but is quiet when the wheels are in the air. I just ordered a BBB pump from Rockauto, as I haven't found a real ZF pump anywhere. We will see how it works out.
    '95 M3 S54 Track Toy
    '19 X5 40i M-Sport
    '16 Cayman GT4
    ‘23 GR Corolla

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